Bodybuilding

[TonkaBass]

Hey guys, I've really enjoyed this forum, and I was wondering if you guys have any advice. I am mostly concerned about building muscle for appearance and Im curious if any of you know of a good exercise to build the top of the traps or if its just genetics that will make them have more of a full look. Ideally I would like them to start high on my neck and sweep diagonally to my shoulders. There is a dead bodybuilder named Zyzz, google him if you don't know of him, and his traps are awesome looking. Thanks

[TR21HP]

Tonka,

Shrugs are one of the best along with cable rope pulls. You can go to bodybuilding.com and do a search and you'll find all sorts of variations.

A lot of it is genetica and forced behavior such as bridging if you were a wrestler or running into people with your head down in football if you were a running back - both of which I did unfortunately.

[MNUser]

He died of a heart attack in 2011. Steroids were suspected. So many of those who attain that physical appearance do participate in steroid use. There are some genetics involved but a lot of it is a result of steroids. Not saying it in impossible but to achieve that level some substance will be needed. Even Arnold has admitted to extensive steroid use.

[mattrd]

I agree with TR21...bodybuilding.com is a great tool. They even have trap specific workouts. Another one to look at on youtube is athleanx. I like doing dumbbell shrugs alot. Contract the traps straight back first and then shrug up, you can't do this with bar shrugs properly. I like doing those and bar shrugs. Oh the old steroid debate, are they as bad as we have been taught or is it an ethical thing? I've never used them, but if they are used on sick people are they really that bad? Remember he died of a heart attack, not steroids.

[delcecchi]

There are many different substances lumped under "steroid". Prednisone is a cortico-steroid used to fight inflammation and mitigate auto-immune stuff.

The stuff athletes take is more related to testosterone. Anabolic steroids. In general they have pretty bad side effects, including moobs, and shrunken testicles ...

From Wikipedia

Quote:

Health risks can be produced by long-term use or excessive doses of anabolic steroids.[2][3] These effects include harmful changes in cholesterol levels (increased low-density lipoprotein and decreased high-density lipoprotein), acne, high blood pressure, liver damage (mainly with oral steroids), dangerous changes in the structure of the left ventricle of the heart.[4] Conditions pertaining to hormonal imbalances such as gynecomastia and testicular atrophy may also be caused by anabolic steroids.

So they mess up your heart, give you high bad cholesterol, low good cholesterol, and high blood pressure. Sounds like the recipe for a heart attack to me.

[TR21HP]

Steroids, just like any other drug, have terrible side effects if abused. The problemwith steroids are users are usually abusers. Very few users monitor their blood pressure or cholesterol levels while using and even fewer are knowledgeable to even know what they're taking . Since the side effects are rarely immediate and the growth is, most users pay little attention to their health and the eventual problems mentioned previously that occur as a result of the abuse

[delcecchi]

Steroids, just like any other drug, have terrible side effects if abused. The problemwith steroids are users are usually abusers. Very few users monitor their blood pressure or cholesterol levels while using and even fewer are knowledgeable to even know what they're taking . Since the side effects are rarely immediate and the growth is, most users pay little attention to their health and the eventual problems mentioned previously that occur as a result of the abuse

Or they are unwilling to stop using just because of a few numbers when they feel so good and are seeing the results.

[mattrd]

If you get a chance watch the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" it's a great movie and may change some of your thoughts on steroids. Oh and just for your info, anybody can put stuff on wikipedia, not a good medical reference to use. Not trying to start anything, I hear what your saying. All we've ever been told is how bad they are. Remember there are a lot of legal things that can give a person a heart attack. Tonka- another suggestion for big traps is to always shrug when you set the hook on a big ol' largemouth!

[delcecchi]

If you get a chance watch the documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" it's a great movie and may change some of your thoughts on steroids. Oh and just for your info, anybody can put stuff on wikipedia, not a good medical reference to use. Not trying to start anything, I hear what your saying. All we've ever been told is how bad they are. Remember there are a lot of legal things that can give a person a heart attack. Tonka- another suggestion for big traps is to always shrug when you set the hook on a big ol' largemouth!

Nobody says they don't work. Just ask Lance Armstrong and all those baseball players and Arnold. The problem is they work great, so long as you take them.

Wikipedia is generally pretty reliable on scientific topics, and provides many references that one can read on their own.

[TR21HP]

Not to hijack the thread but you just don't take steroids and you get huge. There is a lot more to it than that such as eating correctly, getting enough sleep and training correctly. You do have to have the genetic capability for them to work as well. Getting steroids that are pure and not cut by the dealer or getting fake stuff all together is another problem that can derail growth. They do cause health problems, they will be abused and long term health problems are a guarantee. Having been in the pro football arena and bodybuilding arena for years gives me a pretty solid foundation from which to speak. Also having a number of pro wrestlers that I used to train with that are now dead, mostly because of cardiomyopathy or bodubuilders that are on the transplant list because of use gives me that side of it as well. Being a lifetime natural competitior over the years has also been a source of aggravation as I've seen less gifted athletes compete as a result of this use has also been frustrating. Sorry for the rant.

[delcecchi]

After reading your post I realized I should have said "they CAN work great FOR AS long as you take them".

Yours was a very informative post.

[TonkaBass]

Thanks for the tips guys. Zyzz had a great physique, steroids or not. He made a decision to change not matter what, and he accomplished that. I personally don't care if someone chooses to use them or not as long as they don't plan on ever entering a natural competition. That makes them cheaters in my eyes. They say as long as you're clean for 5 years you can enter as a natural, what a load of dump. I don't ever have plans of entering, but I feel for the guys who put in all that work to have some cheater win. Also, I really don't think that the build Zyzz had is unattainable without steroids, just unattainable in the amount of time he did it in (like 70 pounds of lean muscle in 4 years…) Oh, i will try the setting the hook "shrug style" when the lakes finally open lol

[delcecchi]

You and the White Queen from Alice in Wonderland.....

The White Queen tells Alice that in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast"

[TR21HP]

Just looked up Zyzz and that body isn't all that hard to acheive. At 6'1 and 220 he was more physique than bodybuilder. I've competed against larger, natural bodybuilders in regional competitions and much larger in national comps. Great body but certainly naturally attainable with the right genetics, diet and time well spent in the gym. 2007 in Vegas I met and talked with Ronnie Coleman before the O. He was 5'11" 296 lbs. at a tested 4% bodyfat! That was easily the largest human being I've been around in my life. Now that's an unattainable body for even most pros.

[delcecchi]

How do you know they were "natural"? Roger Clemens swore to congress that he was natural.... And we now know about Lance Armstrong who proclaimed his naturalness for years, and even passed all the tests from the best testers in the world.

[TR21HP]

We really don't know if all of them were natural but I personally trained with a few of the guys and they were natural. When you have someone staring at you when you are giving your pee test there's really no chance to fake that plus the masking agents that are available to the pros are much too expensive for the amateur bodybuilder to afford. We also had to take a polygraph test if we placed in the top three and I'm not aware of anyone who can fool that. The IFBB was very solid on their testing process and the money and notoriety you would have from winning was such that it really wasn't worth it. It isn't a very lucrative sport even at the pro level compared to any of the other sports and the risk is probably the greatest in terms of eventual health problems. Given the right genetics, diet and training one can be very large and cut and still be natural it just takes more of an effort than the enhanced bodybuilder.

[DrJuice1980]

any of you know of a good exercise to build the top of the traps

get 2 benches, chairs, or other objects where you can sit on one and put your feet up on the other, they should be somewhat the same height. for me I put my feet up on the fireplace and use my bench. Hands should be shoulder width apart and just start doing dips until you fail. You'll work both your traps and triceps, more so your triceps but you'll start to see the top of traps come in. If you wants you can place a plate in your lap but its not necessary. I don't buy the whole genetics angle, how many times have you seen some skinny gangly person go through a transformation?

[nofishfisherman]

I don't buy the whole genetics angle, how many times have you seen some skinny gangly person go through a transformation?

Anyone can get bigger/stronger and see a transformation. However, genetics will play a part in exactly how big and how strong you can get. Back in my running days I trained 3 hours a day/6 days a week to get stronger and faster. Of course I did get faster but my genetics limited exactly how fast I could get. No matter the effort I put in I'd never beat Usain Bolt in a 100 meter sprint, my genetics just won't allow it.

[DrJuice1980]

Those types of genetic limitations are not what anybody was referring to. No, regardless of the training I would not be able to beat Usain Bolt either. As far as "looks" go, anybody who wanted to dedicate their time to it can look however they want as long as its not growing in height. If I wanted to bulk up to 265 and have 5% body fat I could, it would take dedication but it would happen, however that is not what I want.

[DrJuice1980]

The obese couple with obese children, is that genetics? Odds are it is not a thyroid issue so no its not genetics, rather its very poor choices by poor role models.

[TR21HP]

Way off on this one Doc. Do a little research and you will find that genetics shape us in many ways including our potential to play sports.Training and diet play a large role in developing our potential but our genes can also limit performance. Genetics also have a large influence over strength, muscle size and muscle fibre composition, anaerobic threshold, lung capacity, flexibility and to a lesser extent endurance.Further more, genetics also determine how your body responds to training, diet and other external factors and that's what my point was in that someone who is genetically gifted will get larger, stronger or faster if he's natural or enhanced because of his or her genetics. In summary, diet and training has an enormous affect on athletic performance but genetics still fosters the environment to build on it. If you want further education go to the new england journal of medicine under sports medicine .

[TonkaBass]

True, I wish the gap at the bottom of my pecs where they meet wasn't as spaced, but it is genetics that decides where those muscles connect. Nobody will ever be 100% satisfied with how they look, which is a big driving force to keep pushing and always try to improve. I think it helps us. I bet even Arnold looked at himself with critique in his glory years aspiring to become better all the time. Its what makes bodybuilding so appealing to me...

[delcecchi]

True, I wish the gap at the bottom of my pecs where they meet wasn't as spaced, but it is genetics that decides where those muscles connect. Nobody will ever be 100% satisfied with how they look, which is a big driving force to keep pushing and always try to improve. I think it helps us. I bet even Arnold looked at himself with critique in his glory years aspiring to become better all the time. Its what makes bodybuilding so appealing to me...

You ever read Arnold's autobiography? Not so much one to emulate in his behavior in the early days....

[fishersofmen]

Way off on this one Doc. Do a little research and you will find that genetics shape us in many ways including our potential to play sports.Training and diet play a large role in developing our potential but our genes can also limit performance. Genetics also have a large influence over strength, muscle size and muscle fibre composition, anaerobic threshold, lung capacity, flexibility and to a lesser extent endurance.Further more, genetics also determine how your body responds to training, diet and other external factors and that's what my point was in that someone who is genetically gifted will get larger, stronger or faster if he's natural or enhanced because of his or her genetics. In summary, diet and training has an enormous affect on athletic performance but genetics still fosters the environment to build on it. If you want further education go to the new england journal of medicine under sports medicine .

+1 Pretty comical actually.

[fishersofmen]

Thanks for the tips guys. Zyzz had a great physique, steroids or not. He made a decision to change not matter what, and he accomplished that. I personally don't care if someone chooses to use them or not as long as they don't plan on ever entering a natural competition. That makes them cheaters in my eyes. They say as long as you're clean for 5 years you can enter as a natural, what a load of dump. I don't ever have plans of entering, but I feel for the guys who put in all that work to have some cheater win. Also, I really don't think that the build Zyzz had is unattainable without steroids, just unattainable in the amount of time he did it in (like 70 pounds of lean muscle in 4 years…) Oh, i will try the setting the hook "shrug style" when the lakes finally open lol

I've seen a few of the Zyzz videos over the years. One thing is for sure he was obsessed with diet. That is I believe even more difficult than training. To be that dedicated to your diet day after day year after year takes some serious discipline. That type of physique would be difficult to maintain on steroids or not but he had the ego to pull it off......traps = upright rows