DNR seeks input on antler point restrictions

[Jameson]

I do hunt in the SE part of the state and have for over 30 years. What the apr rules do is slow down the shooting. If you are doing a drive and a deer starts running, you have to look for antlers or not. That makes for less deer of any kind getting shot. Down there virtually every buck over 1.5 years has enough points to be legal. Every big buck that was shot last year has been legal its whole life and it still made it to become a monster.

Great observation from someone in the know. The bolded part goes directly against the primary goal of the APR's as stated by the DNR. It does work for the secondary goal of improving the buck age structure.

[james_walleye]

If you need restrictions on some to get a bigger deer, maybe you should hunt harder. Restrictions should be voluntary. If you need help getting bigger fish and deer, maybe you aren't supposed to get bigger ones. Check out the deer and fish pictures on HSO, now tell me there should be restrictions on getting larger deer and fish. Work harder and it will be more rewarding when you are successful on your own, and not with restrictions limiting others.

You feel free to work harder as well spike. If you hunt zone 3 and put any amount of quality time in the woods you did not have a problem putting meat in the freezer. If you only gun hunted for a couple days, and you CHOSE to not bowhunt or muzzy hunt.....than YOU chose to limit your opportunity to harvest an animal a heck of a lot more than any antlers point restriction ever could.

[Spike76]

james_walleye, I'm not sure what you mean, I was just saying that the DNR has no business with antler point restrictions. Their job is to try to control the size and health of the herd, and not the size of the antlers. The quality of the hunt should not be measured by the size of the antlers, but by the enjoyment of hunting. I hunted zone 1, and baked over thirty loaves of bread, opening week and hunted every day. I didn't shoot a deer but I had a great hunt. They aren't trophies if the only reason they are available to shoot is because others were restricted in shooting them.

[Jameson]

Found it interesting in the online presentation that on slide 3 they talk about starting the APR experiments in some state parks, yet don't give any results to those later in the presentation. If 3 years is enough time to evaluate zone 3's APR's then surely there has been enough time to evaluate the state park's from 2005. Anyone have any info from the state park experiments? Why aren't they telling us more about those?

[james_walleye]

So by your logic then the dnr has no business telling us we can't hunt deer in June. I can't hunt with a shotgun in October. I can't fish walleyes on Mille Lacs on April. I can't shoot a turkey tomorrow. That I can't use 4 tip ups ice fishing. I mean what world do you live in that there are no rules and regulations? You can have the opinion that It's not right.....but the majority of hunters in zone 3 wanted some sort of protection for young bucks. And you can quit with the garbage that Apr supporters judge the quality of the hunt by the size of the antlers. My favorite hunting memory is of my son being with me for the first time out hunting....and I harvested a doe while he was there. Soon it will be of deer he harvests. Or like yesterday.....when he found his first shed. Or when he gets a kick out of checking cameras with me....which we are still doing. Cameras, shed hunting, and scouting trips still in March on new permission I have gained through legwork. Time in the woods that will continue until next season trying to figure out what the deer are doing on new and not so new propertys that I hunt. Yet as an Apr supporter.....I guess I need to work harder you say. What say you spike.....are you still in the woods? Trying to figure out the deer for the gun season that's 8 months away?

[Spike76]

james_walleye, rules and regulations are fine, if there is a reason for them. Experimental antler restriction is not a qualified regulation to me. I was only talking about what this post wanted, input on antler point restrictions. You sound like a liberal, saying that I didn't want rules and regulations, when all I said was that I don't think their job is to have restrictions on antler points.

[james_walleye]

I may be a lot of things, but liberal is not one of them.....

So basically your fine with regulations as long as its one that doesn't tell you which buck you can or can't shoot? What's so funny about this is that in zone 3.....even with APRs ....the vast majority of the deer population is still legal for harvest. Any quality time in the field equals meat in the freezer. If you slug hunt for 3 days and that is the extent of your time afield....Imo....you have yourself to blame for an empty freezer.

[rogrod]

I took the online survey. The first question is worded to get the response that they want.

It is something like, do you want to see mature bucks.

It doesn't have anything in there about options to change some of the rules.

For example, I would like to see the 3A season go back to bucks only. That would distribute the hunters more evenly between the two seasons. Now more of the hunters are going to 3A because why hunt later when you can still get doe permits. That has caused more conflicts between hunters.

[tfran123]

I may be a lot of things, but liberal is not one of them.....

So basically your fine with regulations as long as its one that doesn't tell you which buck you can or can't shoot? What's so funny about this is that in zone 3.....even with APRs ....the vast majority of the deer population is still legal for harvest. Any quality time in the field equals meat in the freezer. If you slug hunt for 3 days and that is the extent of your time afield....Imo....you have yourself to blame for an empty freezer.

Well said. A number of guys get bent out of shape about APR's but the fact is they work and SE MN is proving that - good news is the large majority is liking the regulations. No doubt it'll get extended and let's hope it spreads into other areas of the state. As long as youth can still shoot what they want I fail to see the downside.

[mntatonka]

Well said. A number of guys get bent out of shape about APR's but the fact is they work and SE MN is proving that - good news is the large majority is liking the regulations. No doubt it'll get extended and let's hope it spreads into other areas of the state. As long as youth can still shoot what they want I fail to see the downside.

It works so well that even other areas of the state are seeing bigger bucks. Heck, even other states entirely are seeing bigger bucks! That's a heck of a regulation that can accomplish that.

[TruthWalleyes]

I like how people say there is proof... But fact is, nobody registers antler points. There is no proof. Only anecdotal.

[nonteepical]

I measured at the Iowa deer classic last weekend and will be measuring at minnesotas this weekend. one word sums up minnesotas deer hunting: Pathetic. I like that Lou is trying to improve our deer structure but groups like MDHA are a problem and hold back deer hunting in minnesota.

here's a 293" taken last year and thats not even their state record.

[Jameson]

I measured at the Iowa deer classic last weekend...

What is their APR rule? 3 on one side? 4 on one side? Gotta be a fork or better?

[james_walleye]

They have a December slug season...wanna try that?

[james_walleye]

Proof? Obviously you don't hunt zone 3, because if you did you would have your proof.

[tfran123]

Proof? Obviously you don't hunt zone 3, because if you did you would have your proof.

+1 - guys get a little bent out of shape if they can't whack a spike/fork every year, but refuse to believe that when us hunters keep doing this we're limiting our potential for mature deer. Pretty obvious and I'm not sure what kind of evidence people need that don't favor APR.

As for Iowa, agreed it's much better than our hunting and another key is they don't have opening firearms during peak rut. Shooting a 1.5 year old buck is about as easy as it gets and we shold limit our take on young bucks, period.

I

[PurpleFloyd]

I measured at the Iowa deer classic last weekend and will be measuring at minnesotas this weekend. one word sums up minnesotas deer hunting: Pathetic. I like that Lou is trying to improve our deer structure but groups like MDHA are a problem and hold back deer hunting in minnesota.

here's a 293" taken last year and thats not even their state record.

Looks like what the state needs is to sell off it's public land and turn it into pay-hunt property where the land owner can regulate it and manage it for size structure,all for a price. Think of the size of the deer we could produce in Minnesota if they would quit ripping out old fence lines and replace that with 8'high fences to keep the deer in where you can feed and control them.

[PurpleFloyd]

I can't fish walleyes on Mille Lacs on April.

About the Walleye thing- Not much of a Walleye guy myself but do they have the slot limits set up to protect the big fish by not letting fishermen keep any small fish but instead take all the big ones they want, as is the case with APR?

[tfran123]

Making the link to fish and deer is difficult, I think you responded to a guy that was just saying the DNR does place rules on us in other areas of fishing and hunting.

If you want to talk fish we're talking apples and oranges, your largest walleyes are your spawners (they reproduce), kill them off and you have a very unhealthy fishery, period. A buck is not the one giving birth to fawns so it's a bit different but in the end the DNR is looking for balance and how can your deer herd be balanced when hunters take a disporportiate number of small bucks every year? Sure not everyone likes APR and they are far from perfect but I fail to see any logic in your previous two posts, seems you're stretching to make a point and it's not logical.

[NoWiser]

I'm on the fence about APR. While I like the idea of increasing the number of mature deer in the herd, I don't like the idea of more rules and regulations. Just one example of someone who hunts zone 3:

My uncle bowhunts on a piece of woods my grandpa owns in 338. He started 3 years ago when APR went into effect. I work with him and talk to him almost daily, and remember the first year he was cussing because he had to pass up a "big" 6 point buck. I saw his trailcam pics and this was a 1 1/2 year old deer. He was dead set agains APR. The following year he saw a few more nicer bucks and didn't say too much. This past fall he saw many legal bucks, including a monster that he missed right before gun season. He was still shaking hours later when he told me about it. He is 100% for APR now. He did a complete 180 after seeing how much fun it can be to hunt with multiple mature bucks in an area. I'd been trying to explain this to him for 10 years after hunting in a heavy QDM area of Wisconsin while I went to school out there but he wouldn't listen until he saw it for himself.

On the other hand there was the old guy I talked to up north at his hunting camp who had just shot his first buck in 12 years. It was a smallish 8 that you probably would have had to pass on with APR because the tines were pretty short. He was as excited as a kid who just shot their first deer, and was busy trying to text his brother, who was in the hospital with health problems, a picture of it. I shook his hand and congratulated him, and it made my day seeing how excited he was.

I'm just torn on the issue. Whether APR get extended or not, I think we will see our culture go towards managing for bigger bucks. I'm not sure an actual law is even necessary. I do think surveys will show most of those in zone 3 support the regulations, though.

[skee0025]

Looks like what the state needs is to sell off it's public land and turn it into pay-hunt property where the land owner can regulate it and manage it for size structure,all for a price. Think of the size of the deer we could produce in Minnesota if they would quit ripping out old fence lines and replace that with 8'high fences to keep the deer in where you can feed and control them.

I certainly hope your joking with that post. If that is your idea of a great hunt, I know a farmer who would let you shoot a few of his cows for the right price. Thats no different than shooting high fence penned in deer.

[TruthWalleyes]

Proof? Obviously you don't hunt zone 3, because if you did you would have your proof.

Have been the last 4 years... Zone 347/348

I'm for selective harvest and harvesting mature bucks, but i do not feel it is necessary to push that onto others. I also don't see the improvement you claim is CLEARLY happening down there. If someone wants to shoot a spike - I'm not going to tell them otherwise. Me personally, i'll pass on the spikes. But do not feel it is something that should be pushed on all deer hunters.

Show me the proof. If the DNR had half a brain, they'd register points to see if there was an actual increase in antler size. It's all HORN PORN in my eyes. I'll continue to put does in the freezer and wait for a nice mature buck...But i won't push for these restrictions to increase the chance of large antlers - I just don't care about antlers enough to force it onto others. You all care way too much about that horn porn.

"Trophy" is in the eye of the beholder.

[lichen fox]

What is their APR rule? 3 on one side? 4 on one side? Gotta be a fork or better?

[lakevet]

I measured at the Iowa deer classic last weekend and will be measuring at minnesotas this weekend. one word sums up minnesotas deer hunting: Pathetic. I like that Lou is trying to improve our deer structure but groups like MDHA are a problem and hold back deer hunting in minnesota.

here's a 293" taken last year and thats not even their state record.

Yep, look at what a state can produce with the right management.

Iowa allows cross tagging of bucks (yep the evil party hunting people run wild down there) and shoot any buck you want including those little tasty bucks. I think they have a post rut hunt, just like Wisconsin. That is what really has an impact in my opinion. And allows for great results with less regulations and hunter style conflicts ending up being fought out in the legislature.

Problem is too many Minnesota hunters rely on bucks getting stupid from the rut and don't want to give it up.

lakevet

[PurpleFloyd]

Making the link to fish and deer is difficult, I think you responded to a guy that was just saying the DNR does place rules on us in other areas of fishing and hunting.