Million dollar idea or catastrophic failure?

[Jeremy airjer W]

I've been running this idea through my head for some time and the more I think abut it the more it makes sense until I think about the practicality.

One of the biggest concerns of ice fisherman, other than ice thickness, is carbon monoxide. Most notably in sleeper style fish houses. No matter what conventional heat source you decide on the potential for CO poisoning exists.

I know this sounds crazy but why not use in floor heating to solve this problem? Think about it..... The boiler can still run on propane but it can be remotely mounted in the fish house so that CO Would never enter the fishable area. The only problems I can foresee is whether or not the pump would be more of an electrical burden than a forced air furnace and whether or not the floor could be insulated enough to keep the ice from melting from underneath you!

Everyone seems to be spray insulating the floors. With the addition of heat reflectors I don't see the floor heat getting through the floor to melt the ice as an issue but its the only variable I haven't been able to work out in my head

Anyone that has in floor heating in there home or garage knows that the heat is unbeatable and very efficient.

So is this a million dollar idea, has it already been done, or is it a recipe for disaster?

[PurpleFloyd]

The key would be moving the combustion out of the house and having it occur outside and then bring the heat inside. The in floor heat would work and you could also use a radiator, a heat exchanger and fan or whatever method you chose. As long as the combustion is happening outside of the house and the gasses cannot get back into the house it would work. Think of the outdoor wood boilers that are popular up north. Same concept. I suppose you could use the V part of the house to work as a mechanical room and keep the unit in there separated by a sealed wall and pipe the water/glycol or whatever your chosen transfer medium was. With an exchanger you could also have hot water.

[Walleyehooker]

I think it would take to long to heat up and sitting on a block of ice wont help. Lines might hold up in the floor but could also have issues. How much room would it take up and cost and maintainence?

[Jeremy airjer W]

Maintenance would be negligible. The tubing in the floor would last longer than the fish house.

The only way I can think to mount the pex tubing to the floor is to mount the subfloor up off the frame with spacers. I haven't looked into what tubing sizes specifically that would need to be used but they range from 3/8 to over an inch. So I don't think floor hight is an issue. Once the subfloor is installed the tubing would be attached to the subfloor from the underside. Then the heat reflectors would be installed. I assume they can spray foam the underside with the subfloor installed and them an appropriate "belly" could be installed?

[PurpleFloyd]

I am not sure about how quickly IFH would warm up and how many coils you would need to heat the house but I would think a wall mounted radiator and fan might be a better choice,although not as quiet as radiant. It would take some time for the IFH to get up to temp and especially for the Pex to bring a house from freezing to comfortable if you haven't been there for a few days and it is below zero out.Just some things to consider.

All that said, yes, it could work.

[hawgchaser]

My neighbor put underfloor heat in his Yetti 2 years ago. He put pink foam board over the existing floor; routered grooves for the pex; hooked it up to a circulating pump and a 6 gal. RV water heater. Over the pex/foam board is a layer of thin aluminum sheeting to dissipate the heat. He has a thin plywood floor over the foam/pex. It really doesn't take long to heat up, but if it's really cold he runs the burners on his stove for 10 minutes and he's good to go. He has two computer fans for circulation and fishes in slippers or even stocking feet. His wife is the one who really sells it. I'm going to copy his work on one I'll build next summer.

[silverbulletguy]

While I'm not familiar with in floor heat I wonder if it would be quicker to insulate the heck out of the floor and put the tubing in the walls? It would cost more but would it be more effective?

[Jeremy airjer W]

I never thought about routing pink foam board. That's brilliant idea and likely a lot easier than my thought!

[Pooh]

I used a plywood product building houses that was prerouterd and the entire top layer was aluminum. The pex pressed in and was hardly noticeable. The floor was quite flat. The stuff was spedy though. Like 120 a, sheet and was made per floor plan.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I've seen the pre routed stuff but like you mentioned it isn't really cost effective.

[ClownColor]

Not expert but what would happen when you aren't running it in the dead of winter? Would the pipes freeze and burst?

[PurpleFloyd]

Not expert but what would happen when you aren't running it in the dead of winter? Would the pipes freeze and burst?

You use glycol instead of water.

[Gus]

In floor heat sounds cool, but remember as long as you have combustion for heating you have CO risk. The wrong wind, blowing exhaust gasses in the wrong places and you can still get into trouble. But cozy toes sure sounds nice!

[B-man715]

It is an idea I've always wanted to follow through on.

Instead of using a normal propane water heater.........

..................Google "Parking Heater", "Hot Box", "Coolant Heater" etc.

They are made to run on gasoline or diesel, which "I think" would be more cost effective than propane (being a dollar or two cheaper per gallon). Not sure on the efficiency compared between the three fuels though.....

The system would be somewhat complex compared to a plain-jane direct vent heater.

You need power to move the coolant, ignite the flame, and turn a fan (if using a heat exchanger/radiator).

Initial cost would also be much higher, even compared to a forced air propane heater.

They even make small wood boilers too (lilpowerhouse).

But if it worked, was reliable, and was efficient........ it would be sweet!

[Jeremy airjer W]

In floor heat sounds cool, but remember as long as you have combustion for heating you have CO risk. The wrong wind, blowing exhaust gasses in the wrong places and you can still get into trouble. But cozy toes sure sounds nice!

But the one nice thing is that all the "combustibles" can be remotely mounted and or accessed from the outside. It would not have to be inside the fish house to work. This would seal off the fish-able area from CO, oxygen depletion, and gas leaks.

I think there would be a few guys who where up on lake of the woods recently that might consider this a little more!!

[Hoey]

Propolyene glycol for sure, non-toxic, at a mixture to -40F, which would de-rate the Btu of the boiler since glycol is not as good at heat transfer as 100% water.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Basically, RV Anti-Freeze.

[LightningBG]

I like the thought process, but I think the recovery time would be too long. In my business we use boilers and radiators, but it takes a while to get up to temp if we aren't around for the weekend and drop it down.

In theory, there should be plenty of ways to make a forced air system that is sealed from any combustibles, just like a direct vent HE furnace in a house. (if they current ones aren't already)

If the forced air is coming in from the inside, and out to the inside, in a sealed system, through a heat exchanger, and the furnace is in a box sealed from the inside, there shouldn't be any way of getting CO into the house, with the exception of the exhaust blowing back in from the wind (which would happen in either system) or if there was a crack in the heat exchanger.

[Jeremy airjer W]

You think it will be that slow to heat up? You would think that since the heat is coming up from the floor that you would start to feel it fairly quick. How long would a forced air or direct vent have to run to truly bring the house up to temp?

[CJH]

Don't they make in floor heat that is basically just a wire mesh vs liquid? Pretty sure I've seen that before. Could you run that off of a generator or would it be too much of a draw? A generator you could space even further from the ice house.

[CaptainMusky]

Don't they make in floor heat that is basically just a wire mesh vs liquid? Pretty sure I've seen that before. Could you run that off of a generator or would it be too much of a draw? A generator you could space even further from the ice house.

Yes, that is typically under ceramic tile but can also be used under carpet. It would require electric, but I have no idea what the amperage requirements would be needed for that.

[Thunderfoot]

I think this is a great idea. I think if you ran the tubing under the subfloor with routed styrofoam insulation under the coils and then sprayfoamed it or something similar you could keep the heat off the ice to avoid melting you would be set. Mount a boiler on the outside of the house like you say and all CO will be sealed out. A wood burner would be awesome, I think, though it may take more time to heat up than oil, propane, etc. Bring a small sunflower heater with or use stove top just to get the chill off then let the radiation take over. Not only are you eliminating the risk of CO but you are also losing the risk of gas leaks that could cause an explosion like we heard about on Lake of the Woods, unless you're running a gas stove.

I think the biggest thing like you say is insulating the bottom side of the heat coils so you're not melting the ice under the house but I do believe that's as simple as a good styrofoam insulation and a good spray foam to seal everything up. The big thing is going to be getting the bottom sealed air-tight.

Also to further avoid risk of fire you could do a small boiler separate from the house. If you're house is one that won't be moving often through the year this would be easiest, if you move it a lot this may be a little cumbersome. Have the boiler set up 5-10 feet away from the house and use thick rubber hoses with quick-connects to connect the boiler to the system in the house rather than permanent hard-lines.

If you can come up with a good system I believe you just may have a million dollar idea!

[minnbowhunter]

You think it will be that slow to heat up? You would think that since the heat is coming up from the floor that you would start to feel it fairly quick. How long would a forced air or direct vent have to run to truly bring the house up to temp?

I use a forced air furnace that takes about 20-30 mins to bring the house up to the point where I am shedding clothes. I use a 12 volt co detector mounted down low close to the furnace. I test it every time I go out.

[crappiekid]

ive kicked this around in my head several times.I would be apprehensive about the amount of time required to heat the house and fitting coming loose in the sub floor as the house banged down the roads. On short four or five hour trips this would never work. But you could always have dual heat? Say I forced air or Empire vented wall mount along with the in floor or in wall heat. Another method of heat is a small 110 heater. I bought a cheaper one and run it on my generator while I am charging my batteries. Ya that is a large Draw and make the generator work but.. as far as safety with normal heaters; I have a LP detector and TWO CO2 monitors in my house. I check them each time out. I encourage a vent or cracking a window at night as well! I would love to check that earlier Yetti post out. (in floor heat) how long it takes to heat up.

[CAMAN]

I would be apprehensive about the amount of time required to heat the house and fitting coming loose in the sub floor as the house banged down the roads.

Simple, just bring a Big Buddy heater to warm the house while the system is getting warmed up. But once the fluid gets up to temp the floor warms quite quickly.

And unless it got damaged during install, PEX should never have any fittings in the field. The only two fittings should be at the beginning and end of the run where it attaches to the manifold.