Mn is falling behind in B&C entries

[matchset]

And the increase in big bucks isn’t confined to the Midwest and Texas. Incredibly, B&C entries from the Northeast’s 10 states jumped to 183 in the 2000s, a 37 percent increase from 133 in the 1990s. This includes Rhode Island, which put three bucks into the book after recording none in previous history. And B&C entries from the Southeast’s nine states reached 188 in the 2000s, a 9 percent increase from 173 in the 1990s. The most noticeable changes were Mississippi, which jumped 71 percent to 48 entries. Also, the number shot in Tennessee leapt 150 percent to 25 entries.

Of the top 10 whitetail states in 2000-09, eight increased their entries from 1990-1999, and Indiana made the short list for the first time. Only the province of Saskatchewan saw a decline, though merely by eight bucks. The top states with increases were Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Kentucky, Ohio, Missouri, Kansas and Minnesota.

Minnesota’s B&C staying power is without peer; it posted increases for six straight decades and never once fell from the top 10. Its 193 entries for 2000-09 placed it 10th on the list. It was No. 9 in the 1990s with 168, No. 1 in the 1980s with 142, No. 1 in the 1970s with 138, No. 1 in the 1960s with 94 and No. 1 in the 1950s with 53.

Wisconsin’s Buffalo County remained the No. 1 county for the third straight decade by placing 44 bucks into B&C in 2000-09. It was also No. 1 in the 1990s with 25 and No. 1 in the 1980s with 14.

[Gofishleech]

Popularity of QDM

[Bear55]

Popularity of QDM

Yep we are consistently good but its clear the other states have figured out a way to be better. We could too but I guess its not in our blood.

[TruthWalleyes]

This is a rebuilding year

[slimngrizzly]

Oh the potential...

Its only a matter of time before MN figures out how to grow more mature bucks AND still allows licensing options so EVERYONE can kill EVERYTHING.... right?

ya... I didn't think so

[B. Amish]

is this new data? link? what are the actual numbers of the entries from the states?

[picksbigwagon]

And so it begins..........What regulations has Rhode Island instituted to grow such big deer? Wait aren't there private ranches in Texas the same sime as Rhode Island? I wonder how many hunters there arein Rhode Island? Maybe we should cut the number of Iicenses in MN to under 100k, basically ensuring that once every 5-7 years you get to go hunting..... Or maybe, just maybe we should move the gun season out of the rut, which is the only QDM that states like Iowa have on their books......

[lichen fox]

I don't think it has anything to do with any of the state's or provinces "hunting" regulations...you can't legislate big bucks...I just think that the hunters in those states that are gaining big-buck momentem, are way more smarter than us minnesota boys and girls!

[Scott K]

How many of those are shot from private ranches with fences, and feeders for the deer to eat out of?

I get so sick of watching the hunting shows on TV now days, where they pretty much all are shot from in fenced in ranches. Might as well go cow hunting on a dairy farm.

[Gofishleech]

Or maybe, just maybe we should move the gun season out of the rut, which is the only QDM that states like Iowa have on their books......

This for sure......As for the fenced in deer, they are not allowed in the books. However I bet many of the entry's are from private ground that is being managed for big bucks. I do beleive that moving gun season out of the rut would save alot of bucks thus improving there chances of reaching older age class. That said I do understand some of the reasoning for not doing this,,,,,,,,,,weather in minnesota can be drasticly colder in mid to late november and that would deture alot of hunters and licence sales. We also have a tradition of rut hunting in minnesota that I dont see changeing. I would think some hunters dont even know that they are hunting the best time of year and just take it for granted that bucks are with or following does when they are afield.

[InTheNorthwoods]

How many of those are shot from private ranches with fences, and feeders for the deer to eat out of?

I get so sick of watching the hunting shows on TV now days, where they pretty much all are shot from in fenced in ranches. Might as well go cow hunting on a dairy farm.

None of them should be shot from private ranches with fences. B&C only recognizes fair chase animals. High fence preserves animals are not included.

[Scott K]

Quote:

None of them should be shot from private ranches with fences. B&C only recognizes fair chase animals. High fence preserves animals are not included.

But, how many are? I am thinking there are a quite a few.

[picksbigwagon]

I think a better question is: How many were shot using a guide service who have locked up thousands upon thousands of acres for their clients use only......

[InTheNorthwoods]

I don't think it has anything to do with any of the state's or provinces "hunting" regulations...you can't legislate big bucks...I just think that the hunters in those states that are gaining big-buck momentem, are way more smarter than us minnesota boys and girls!

Disagree. Big bucks are the product of age and genetics. While we can't change genetics in a wild herd with any effectiveness, I believe age is a trait that can be influenced to an extent. And, no matter how good the genetics are, letting bucks reach maturity is the only we'll have bigger bucks. With that said, I do believe there are a number of legislative means that can promote a better age structure (that have been discussed ad naseum on this forum over the past several years). If Minnesota made a few small changes, I think we'd start to see more mature bucks, and thus more big bucks.

I'm not saying MN needs this to happen, I'm just saying I think it is possible.

[InTheNorthwoods]

But, how many are? I am thinking there are a quite a few.

In today's internet information world? I'd say less than 1% are high fence deer improperly entered. I'd say that poached deer are FAR more likely to be entered than deer shot in enclosures.

On both fronts, I'd guess that 9 out of 10 bucks entered into the B&C club are shot with a valid license, during legal shooting hours, in the wild.

[Getanet]

My brain must be a little slow today, because I've read the initial post twice and still don't know how you come to the conclusion the MN is falling behind or has a problem. Here is what read:

The top states with increases were Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Kentucky, Ohio, Missouri, Kansas and Minnesota.

Minnesota’s B&C staying power is without peer; it posted increases for six straight decades and never once fell from the top 10. Its 193 entries for 2000-09 placed it 10th on the list. It was No. 9 in the 1990s with 168, No. 1 in the 1980s with 142, No. 1 in the 1970s with 138, No. 1 in the 1960s with 94 and No. 1 in the 1950s with 53.

So we've never fallen out of the Top 10. We've increased our entries every decade since the 1950's, and our staying power is "without peer."

This sounds absolutely terrible!

[B. Amish]

lol, getanet, right on.

[lichen fox]

And did you know that younger bucks...2-4 years old, roam the largest range? Medium age bucks...4-6 years old, range is about 1600 acres or less...and really old bucks...7-10 years old, thier range decreases to about 150 acres on average...So as a whitetail buck ages, he travels much, much less even during the rut...So, if you can find a "really old" buck chances are he'll be pretty close to the spot where you found him just about anytime during the year!

[Bear55]

My brain must be a little slow today, because I've read the initial post twice and still don't know how you come to the conclusion the MN is falling behind or has a problem. Here is what read:

I don't have the exact numbers but I think they tell the story. Back in the early days we were #1, now we are hanging onto the top 10 which means other states have passed us up, some of them in a big way.

[B. Amish]

one thing about this that i find funny is that wisconsin has far and away the most, but if you read forums that include wisconsin deer hunters, they p & moan that the big buck hunting is terrible and that the dnr should be doing a better job.

cripes, they lobbied so hard for changes, that the governor brought in the deer czar.

so, being #1 still isn't good enough. the quest for the biggest and best never ends.

[Scott K]

I guess, I like venison. I like it to not be old, tough, and stinky. I dont want to start a APR discussion, but not everyone cares how big their head dress is, and not all of us want that old 6 year old deer. Would I shoot it, sure, would I be happy, and proud that I shot a big deer, sure. But I am also happy and proud I shoot a 2-3 year old 150 pound deer as well. To me a quality of the deer, doesnt mean it is old, and has a huge rack. It means it is a nice sized deer, that will put a good amount of meat in my freezer. In MN, I would have to say, we are in one of the top states for that as well.

[Getanet]

I don't have the exact numbers but I think they tell the story. Back in the early days we were #1, now we are hanging onto the top 10 which means other states have passed us up, some of them in a big way.

Okay, but we've still increased every decade since we were #1. You're chances of getting one now appear to be better than when we were #1. I think some guys would go to a party at the Playboy Mansion and complain about the lack of pretty women.

[Bear55]

WI has a lot of prime ground, they also have plenty of average hunting ground. MN has some prime ground too just not on the level of WI. A few guys compaining doesn't mean they speak for the whole state does it?

[eyesonly]

My Neighbor has a beautiful piece of property in Buffalo county and they shoot monster bucks every year. He and all his neighbors religiously practice QDM. Is that really all there is to growing bigger bucks, Everyone agreeing to let them grow ? I know there is some state land in buffalo county but I believe the majority is private and that is the only way QDM would work. Everyone agreeing to let them grow. I don’t feel It’s my place to tell someone that they can’t harvest a spike or shoot a 2 year old 6 point at all and I never would- Would I like to see that ? of course. Maybe I’m missing the point of this thread but really I think that until people have all the same thought process you guys are correct in thinking we will never be up there with the other states.

[nbadger23]

This is the data I found:

From 1980 - 2001 The top 10 states are:

1)IL (509)

2)IA (507)

3)WI (395)

4)MN (293)

5)MO (244)

6)KY (242)

7)KS (235)

8)OH (199)

9)TX (159)

10)IN (138)

Then this comparative look at 2005-10 versus a 1980-1985 look)

1. Wisconsin, 383 entries (1980-1985 rank 3rd, 40 entries)

2. Illinois, 299 entries (1980-1985 rank 6th, 30 entries)

3. Iowa, 224 entries (1980-1985 rank 2nd, 59 entries)

4. Ohio, 215 entries (1980-1985 rank 14th, 16 entries)

5. Missouri, 214 entries (1980-1985 rank 9th (tie), 25 entries)

6. Kentucky, 199 entries (1980-1985 rank 9th (tie), 25 entries)

7. Indiana, 195 entries (1980-1985 rank 16th, 14 entries)

8. Kansas, 181 entries (1980-1985 rank 4th, 35 entries)

9. Minnesota, 172 entries (1980-1985 rank 1st, 76 entries)

10. Saskatchewan, 147 entries (1980-1985 rank 7th (tie), 27 entries)

So, for Minnesota:

#1 from 1980-1985

#4 from 1980-2001

#9 from 2005-2010

So is Minnesota "slipping?" You could probably say they have slipped a bit in the past 10 years or so. You'd like to think they would stay pretty comparable to Wisconsin, Iowa, and Illinois, or within shouting distance.

If you're interested in increasing how many B&C bucks a state produces, having a gun hunt that usually coincides with the rut likely isn't a good idea. But I think Minnesota has struck a nice balance between being a state that is a top 10 producer of large deer and yet offers a "kid in the candy shop" type of experience like having a gun hunt during the rut. It's almost the best of both worlds. Everybody will have their own opinion on it but whenever I start to grumble about anything deer management related I can quickly change my attitude when I realize that I have a chance to hunt in two states (MN and WI) that are chocked full of big deer, which is a great opportunity.