MN River Cats...what's going on?

[DTro]

When I've used the small rattle float, I put it between the sinker and the hook about 6" above the bait.

Nice channels!

[goblueM]

Its funny you guys brought up this bobber fishing thing. I was out fishing flats last friday and tried a final spot at about 2am. Go figure my cast arched over a limb that I didn't see. It turned out that my bullhead was suspended perfectly on the surface just so that he had his belly in the water. I watched that #$!# bullhead for over an hour because I couldn't help myself. Believe it our not I had two big northerns come and try to eat it and a small flathead maybe 6 or 7lbs! None of them could pull my line out of the tree so it was all for nothing. This encounter would at least suggest that flatheads are opportunistic when it comes to feeding near the surface.

Man was it fun watching those fish chase that bully around on the surface...he was sure doing his best to get away!

In the South guys use "limb lines" doing exactly what you accidentally did - they will tie a string to a limb and put a struggling baitfish right at the surface. Come back and check it in the morning. Catches a surprising amount of catfish I hear

[esoxrocks01]

Seems the cats are back out to play again! I almost had one last night, but it broke my line. At least it didn't take my barrel swivel and egg sinker with it! I need some better leader line...

[Shack]

Quote:

Nothing has changed, 'cept a few internet catfishing legends dragging the crowd around all in the name of being a big deal on facespace.

I could understand losing a few fish due to landlocking, but river fish of all kinds are accustomed to water fluctuation, and fish getting washed downstream? For realz? There was probably more csts that got silted in...than washed downriver.

Seriously? No one angling person(s) or group(s) currently fishing any of the rivers have any such power as to shut down an entire part of a River eco system within just a few years, let alone a life time. Not walleyes, not bass and certainly not flatheads.

Even a league of 20+ of the Minnesota River best catfisherman, fishing weekends on end, annually with a league policy of o fish returned and payouts on kept limits would take a life time to make a dent on the entire Minnesota.

There are three things which can affect the flathead, the river, food source and breeding territory.

The river itself is its biggest non-release angler, when it takes fish it takes them for keeps. The fish are still here, I would assume for the most part, and the bite will return when the conditions favor it. Although flatheads will winter upwards of 75-100 miles from their stomping grounds, various biologists have proven they are extremely redundant on where and when they return and mainly for feeding and breading purposes.

Just as the MN goes through its periods where it totally changes things up for fisherman, the same thing is happening for the flathead and even channels. They are the top of the food chain just under humans, but just like humans they also have to change their approach to life when the river decides to run its course. Boom and bust, my guess is every 10-12 years you will see what we had in 2008 (I believe that was the night or the night right after Dtro, Brian & I had a great evening. Nothing huge but it was close to twenty caught & released).

The natural world will never be controlled by Facebook, although many seem to think because why? People want to feel special, they are right, able to point fingers when struggling to find answers, but really, on the cover of In-Fisherman or first timer, were as sportsmen & angling groups on the internet, are just not this special. Plain & simple, there are just too many helping on and off the internet today than hurting, plus the standards on how things are done, from pollution to mass over harvesting, have been put into place for the positive when it comes to the regular Joe catfisherman.

Checks and balances only, minus a catastrophic man made occurrence.

For all you, I and the editorial “we” knows, the MN could have a record population of monster flatheads right now, but 99.9% of them put the feed bag on at 7:00am on Tuesday morning. IMO though, we are just going through a natural occurring lull and toss in flood conditions also as they have been, but also knowing water temp drives everything (from start up to shut) but also knowing that cats will stop life all together just to have enough energy to breed if needed and given the conditions of their environment, etc., etc., etc…

Seriously, I can and will go deep with this topic. I have read and researched enough third party biological, college professor, public and privately funded & state department fisheries documents about Pylodictis olivaris and how it lives, if there was anything I may know in my lifetime, this topic is it. The MN regional flathead catfish is rare, and IMO is a fragile species, but it this has nothing, what so ever, to do with any angler, let alone a group, individual or your mother. I could go on but until someone, anyone can bring any proof to the table about anglers and the internet remotely being any sort of a cause with a poor fish bite on anybody of, but in this case an entire river system, I have wasted enough time already.

Face it folks, cat anglers, no matter where you rank or who you know, will inevitably fall upon and have slow times. Probability suggests otherwise to theory that Facebook or Twitter is causing a slow bite.

To add or add further, just a few of the many obvious possibilities that we even know of include: Anglers fishing incorrectly, stuck in their proven ways of the past and find it hard or impossible (given how huge a river can become after a couple of skunk trips, plus I know this myself all to well because it is hard to switch) to change in an extreme fashion, fishing in just plan unfavorable conditions, over population boom and now bust do to nature cycles as suggested, etc. etc. etc...

There are just way too many variables which trended away to even cast probability that a down time or slow bite is being controlled (with a lack of fishing being in the system I mean) by the hands of man or women. There certainly may be more people "NOW" on the river than a handful of years back, and even possibly fishing for cats also, but there is not, and thank the fish itself and down times like this, I feel or ever will be "enough" people on the river, given today's society, pillaging and removing enough population of flathead catfish in such a way that would deem mankind and Facebook the guilty parties which cause the massacre through the use of rod and reel. The culpability factor of today's society, in general, being so naive, in such a fashion as they were when the infamous buffolo kill off occurred in the 1870's and 1880's, just could never become a factor. It would be way too big to keep a secrete and the group who would indulge in such a thing would be way to small.

Unless your hands are about to tip a couple hundred gallons of obtainable toxic fluids over the bank, up stream, we are nothing but small, individual groups, whom for the most part care & do more the species than hurt it, that just like to fish and have fun doing so. No matter if you are the Grand-Wazoo who puts the get-together event on or the last guy to come, it's for fun with some prizes & parting gifts which are graciously donated and given away to keep the group going and interest had.

We’re just river loving peons, spare change; we have no power of this fashion and the mind certainly has the power to make up the idea that the online cat groups do possess this power.

It is true that nature would not demand any restrictions of instinct from us, she would let us do as we liked; but she has her own particularly effective method of restricting us. She destroys us-coldly, cruelly, relentlessly, as it seems to us, and possibly through the very things that occasioned our satisfaction. It was precisely because of these dangers with which nature threatens us that we came together and created civilization, which is also, among other things, intended to make our communal life possible. For the principal task of civilization, its actual raison d'etre, is to defend us against nature.

-----------------

Civilization relieves of this task; it performs it in the same way for all alike; and it is noteworthy that in this almost all civilizations act alike. Civilization does not call a halt in the task of defending man against nature, it merely pursues it by other means. The task is a manifold one. Man's self-regard, seriously menaced, calls for consolation; life and the universe must be robbed of their terrors; moreover his curiosity, moved, it is true, by the strongest practical interest, demands an answer.

A great deal is already gained with the first step: the humanization of nature. Impersonal forces and destinies cannot be approached; they remain eternally remote. But if the elements have passions that rage as they do in our own souls, if death itself is not something spontaneous but the violent act of an evil will, if everywhere in nature there are beings around us of a kind that we know in our own society, then we can breathe freely, can feel at home in the uncanny and can deal by psychical means with our senseless anxiety.

We are still defenseless, perhaps, but we are no longer helplessly paralyzed; we can at least react. Perhaps, indeed, we are not even defenseless. We can apply the same methods against these violent supermen outside that we employ in our own society; we can try to adjure them, to appease them, to bribe them, and, by so influencing them, we may rob them of a part of their power. A replacement like this of natural science by psychology not only provides immediate relief, but also points the way to a further mastering of the situation.

[BEEFEATER]

Of course its the pressuer. Its up 20 fold in last 5 years

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Of course its the pressuer. Its up 20 fold in last 5 years

Really? You must fish somewhere I don't go.

[MDNRMetroRivers]

I'll bet you guys were wishing you had kept your catfishing diaries right about now. This is where the data speaks for itself and trends can be picked out over a number of years. This one year may be an anomaly. But if I had 30 fisherman keeping logs, trends could be observed, and anomalies could be observed. Maybe the last 5 years have been the best fishing for flatheads in the past 30 years and this year is just going to be goofy because of early ice-out/early warm up/then a cool down/then blistering hot/then no rain...pick whatever reasons you want. Doesn't matter, I don't have any fisherman data to state anything

Joel

[Scott K]

Joel, I fish pretty regularly every year,in about the same area and have for the last 30 years. A few of my observations, 08-2010 was my best years. It has steadily dropped the past couple years in my area. This is the worst year I can remember for catfish since the mid 80's. Walleye's are pretty thick the past couple years, much better then normal. The river fluctuations are insane now compared to 10 years ago, and something needs to be done about that. There are many more people on the river in my area, then there was 10 years ago.

As far as data logs go, I have kept them pretty detailed for a few years, then slacked off. I keep a pretty good track of fishing in my head, as the years go on, it is less important for me to weigh, measure, picture, or record fish under 40#. This year I have no fish over 40# to have pictures. Not to many over 20 n my boat this year either, maybe 4 that I can think of. Previous 5 years, I would say 100 easily over 20#, 10 over 30#, with 8-10 over 40#.

This year, and last may be a fluke for me, my boat, and my area. But I fish enough to know that the numbers are decreasing, and have done so pretty dramatically the past 3 years around here.

Disclaimer: This year I have spent many less hours on the water due to low water, but I have made it out between 2-4 nights a week this year. But comparing that to 6-7 nights a week in years past.

[MinnesnowtaWild]

Joel - I still keep data (although I admittedly have not fished as much this year as before). You are always welcome to have any data that I keep, you just say the word and it's done.

[BEEFEATER]

PRESSURE

[Gordie]

PRESSURE

Not buying this one at all.

There are other rivers with a whole lot more pressure than the Minnesota and the fish are still biting in those rivers.

If thats not enough then explain the noodling down south time and time again the fish are pulled from the same waters,same spots and at times same fish.

like I said not buying the pressure bit.

[motownmasher]

i fish primarily out of the morton access, and the pressure here has not changed over the past couple seasons, however the catch rate has drastically dropped. a good night is now anything over 10 lbs. two years ago that would have been horrible. used to never leave the landing without at least 18 baits. now that would seem silly. took a dozen last night with two anglers. PLENTY!!

i have to agree with gordie and others here as i havn't seen a boat on the river since the derby (july 27-28th). i'm sure the low water does discourage some, but it was a thrill ride up river.

[harvey lee]

I would have to believe the pressure is up from say 10 years ago.

Just look at how much more traffic there is on the forums in regards to others fishing the river for flats versus just 5 years ago.

I started maybe 6 years ago or so and I believe I have seen quite a few more boats on the river than 6 years ago except for this past year. It use to be I could show up at a few spots I like to fish and get there at any time to have that spot. The last years, if I did not get there at least 1-2 hours before sundown, I would not be bale to fish that location. That to me is alot more pressure as there sure seems to be more boats fishing them in the areas I fish than say 6-8 years ago.

I have went once due to the low water.

Now, has the pressure had anything to do with the bite, well who knows as there is no simple way to prove that at all one way or the other. We can guess and that's about it.

If it is not the water level being so low or the pressure, then I have to wonder what else it could be.

I do not know if we can compare each system as every river or lake system can be different.

If it is not low water, pressure, then I would guess water quality as I can not see what else it could be.

[DTro]

Of course its the pressuer. Its up 20 fold in last 5 years

so if there were 5 boats out of a landing 5 years ago there is now 100??

There are a few more boats out there than 10 years ago. But not a whole lot. There were a couple of weekends in July that seemed a bit crowded, but very few boats out there in early June when the fish were supposed to be there.

[harvey lee]

But if there were 5 boats 5 years ago and now 8, that a pretty good increase in traffic. I would agree the traffic has not increased 20 times.

Like I stated, if it is not pressure and I am not saying for sure it is as I am not a fisheries expert, otherwise low water or water quality.

What else can it be??

I believe the only ones who may even know would be the experts at the Fisheries dept for the DNR.

[jentz]

I fish way up river in comparison to you fellows,Granitefalls to Morton.I haven't got out as much as past years, but This year is better that past for numbers.Course our largest flat ever was only 35 a shy 35,this year we landed a number of 20-28 nothing larger.We havent been skunked either! the fewest was 4 in a night 8PM to 1AM.We get there earlier but as the sun drops we fish channels,Dont even put a bullie on till 8-9 PM, the channels are to good to miss.With the water so low and below Granite their dropping water levels so much its setting all time lows,This is for the removal of the Mnfalls dam,We know holes and some 6-8 ft holes hold lots of cats.I love watching the channels roll on the surface around sundown.After that run of channels we gear up for flats.

[DTro]

There were PLENTY of nights on the water this year that we were the only boat for miles...maybe a few more on other nights.

Nope, I just don't think pressure is a factor in a fishery that is primarily catch and release. Now, it's possible that people might be keeping them for the table, but I haven't seen or heard an evidence of that or at least in the numbers it would require to have a major impact in the number of fish in the system.

[BEEFEATER]

Idk maybe its all the flood behavior in the past 5 or so years. sure had a lot of flooding there for a while. Im stimmied. Really. I never was good at catching them things anyway. I mean channels sure, but only a handfull of nice flats. Sumday i may give it another shot, who knows. prolly hard to find a better fightin fish around these parts

[BEEFEATER]

Sorry to double post, but i wonder how the cat fishing on the Miss has been this year? Only fished it 3 or 4 times this season for channels and caught alot but the river was way up then. Just wonder if it aint the season. I mean maybe mother nature will throw out a perfect catfish season next year! one can hope

[motownmasher]

i believe a major factor is the influx of bait in the past few seasons. i walked down the bank about 200yds the other night, and bait was literally churning the water from shore to maybe a foot off the bank. yes it was all very small minnnows of some type, but i assume each foot further out the size of this bait would increase. and not just in one little corner. it was like that as far as i walked. the 40#ers probably don't even need to move. simply inhale at almost any given time and they will be fed.

i've been very discouraged this year and may be just hoping on this as it would turn around quicker than the overharvest theory

[DTro]

To answer the question about the Miss, I made more trips over to Pool 2 then I can count. Of all those trips I think I was only skunked one time and most trips ended with double digit fish. It's hard to justify with the MN in view of my house and the Miss being 50 min away, but as much as I like to fish, I also like to catch them too.

I held a contest over there in June and some really great fish were entered. The biggest being about 43lbs.

[BEEFEATER]

Wow. Thats interesting.

[Alagnak]

Yes, it's a fact there is more pressure. Of ALL of the people that I know that go out all the time and plug up the landings and water with all of this 'pressure' I don't know a single one that consistently keeps fish and NONE keep anything of size when they do keep one to eat once and a while. I do witness some campers once and a while from out of town keeping a couple big fatties in a cooler baking all weekend to bring home for the family. Oh well. I haven't seen much of that the last two years. Anyway- in my mind what we have witnessed part of last year and this year in terms of slower fishing for flats on MN river has nothing to do with pressure. There's no way they are so pressured they quite biting our offerings- especially knowing what we know about fish biting multiple times in a night, season, etc. It just doesn't seem right. I too thought there was SO much bait 2 years ago and last year that it was a factor in my mind- that fish were fat and happy and didn't want my bait. During those really high water years bait was flooding back into the river anytime the water level dropped. This year, not nearly as much and kind of back to normal. The fishing? Not so normal.

[Gordie]

It will very interesting next season if it is a normal season to see if some of those fish that were tagged during that contest on the Mississippi end up on the Minnesota.

It is survival for the fish. The river has been up two years in a row right around spawn time and I think that they could not make the spawn work in the high waters of the Minnesota so Some of then not all Migrated to waters that they could survive in. Its instinct all animals have it well maybe not all and I'm talking most humans .

These fish will do what they need to do in order to survive period.

Like I said before Pressure I'm not buying it Yes there is more pressure but the pressure is worse in other places and the fish are still in those places.

[goblueM]

If thats not enough then explain the noodling down south time and time again the fish are pulled from the same waters,same spots and at times same fish.

like I said not buying the pressure bit.

Down south there are waters far more productive, with longer growing seasons and more fish than the MN. Noodling generally targets cats during spawning, when fish are defending their nest cavities - just like how you can catch a bedding bass multiple times if you keep releasing it. Also, the number of people who actually noodle is miniscule compared to hook and line anglers, even where noodling is legal.