question about sheet rock and how to paint

[Pistol Pete]

going to start a small remodel project and was wondering what to do with the sheet rock. Does it need a sealer coat of some kind, just primer or can one use some of the newer paint that claims it has the primer right in it.

[Surface Tension]

You'll need to prime it.

[NoWiser]

Get a good paint from Hirshfields or Sherwin Williams and just give it two coats of whatever color you choose. No need to buy a seperate primer.

[Tom7227]

IMO paint that claims to be both a primer and the final coat is like the multi-tool you see on TV at 2 a.m. It can do all 12 task that are claimed but it does them poorly.

[cavalierowner]

I respectfully disagree NoWiser if it's over new sheetrock like PistolPete seemed to suggest. If you look at the manufacturers instructions, most will tell you that you need a primer. You can get the tape joints showing through if you don't prime. In fact, I believe it was Sherwin Williams that told me many years ago that for a first class job, prime just the tape joints and nail spots first, then prime everything. That gives you 2 coats primer over the joints.

Rule of thumb: Always, always, always follow the manufacturers instructions. Otherwise, you're on your own. There are a few paints out there that advertise primer and finish coat in one, but they have not withstood the test of time long enough for me. NoWiser is correct about buying a good quality paint from Hirshfields or Sherwin Williams. When I was writing paint specs for our projects before I retired, Sherwin Williams was our standard of quality.

[NoWiser]

I'm sure a seperate primer can't hurt anything, but I'll stand by my statement that if you get a good quality paint, it isn't necessary. We've been building high end custom homes for 35 years, and none of our various painters use a primer. They use the same paint for both coats (usually Hirshfields Wash & Wear). If there was a problem, we would be getting warranty calls, and we've never had a single one regarding the paint in the hundreds of homes built in that time. 95% of our homes have walls that are finished smooth, too. No knockdown or orange peel to hide any flaws. If there was a problem, it would show up. I'll be painting my 700 s.f. addition in a couple weeks and will not be using a primer for that. I will be spending my money on good paint from Hirshfields, though.

Again, I'm sure a primer can't hurt and if it makes you feel better, go for it! But, I am confident that you do not need it if you start with a good quality paint. Now, if you need to cover up any stains, water spots, smoke, etc, that is a different story....

[eurolarva]

Primer turns taping mud rock hard. After it has been primed sanding is impossible which I believe is the way it is suppose to be. Seems to me when we tried to paint over tape joints we had problems with it re wetting the mud. This was a long time ago and maybe the technology of paint has changed.

[amateurfishing]

what is the difference between "big box" paint and the 2 recommended above? would like to know for basement finish

[Gordie]

When I used to paint most of the places where done in a flat finish and the first coat of flat wash concidered the prime coat this was on spec homes but if we had to do a semi-gloss or egg-shell paint job we used a good primer and even some times went as far as having the primer tinted to the same color as the paint to make the finish coat even better.

The company I worked for used Sherwin Willaims and Hirshfeilds Exculisivly.

I have used Bher products and found them to as good as the top names and have never had any problems with the Bher line of products and would use them on any paint job that I would do in my own home.

[cavalierowner]

One of the biggest differences is percent of solids in the paint. For example compare Sherwin Williams Promar 200 (the stuff I like for interior) to Behr Premium Plus Ultra:

<solids by volume> <solids by weight>

Promar 200: <47%> <61%>

Behr: <41.5%> <55%>

These numbers are from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheets. There is also a HSOforum from the Painting Institute (that I can't find now) that we used to compare paints that was independent of the manufacturers.

When I used to have rental properties, I once broke down in a moment of weakness and bought some cheap paint. That stuff was terrible to work with; lots of runs, lots of spatter when rolling it on and didn't hold up well at all. What I have always told people is to buy paint at the stores that just sell paint, the stores the professionals go to. As I think about it, Benjamine Moore is another good quality paint.

Added: I use Behr as an example because that's what HD sells a lot of. The cheap stuff I used was not Behr, but something else that was about half the price of SW.

[NoWiser]

When I used to paint most of the places where done in a flat finish and the first coat of flat wash concidered the prime coat this was on spec homes but if we had to do a semi-gloss or egg-shell paint job we used a good primer and even some times went as far as having the primer tinted to the same color as the paint to make the finish coat even better.

The company I worked for used Sherwin Willaims and Hirshfeilds Exculisivly.

I have used Bher products and found them to as good as the top names and have never had any problems with the Bher line of products and would use them on any paint job that I would do in my own home.

That's a good point about the semi gloss or eggshell. We always use a flat paint and haven't had a problem. With a glossier paint, a primer would probably not be a bad idea.

[LightningBG]

That's a good point about the semi gloss or eggshell. We always use a flat paint and haven't had a problem. With a glossier paint, a primer would probably not be a bad idea.

Every builder uses flat paint because it hides all the imperfections.

[NoWiser]

Every builder uses flat paint because it hides all the imperfections.

While it does hide imperfections, it is also easier for the homeowner to touch up in the future when they scuff and ding it up moving furniture, or their kids decide to use the walls as a marker board.

Our customers can choose whatever type of paint they want. It makes no difference to us. Almost all go with flat.

[amateurfishing]

One of the biggest differences is percent of solids in the paint. For example compare Sherwin Williams Promar 200 (the stuff I like for interior) to Behr Premium Plus Ultra:

<solids by volume> <solids by weight>

Promar 200: <47%> <61%>

Behr: <41.5%> <55%>

These numbers are from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheets. There is also a HSOforum from the Painting Institute (that I can't find now) that we used to compare paints that was independent of the manufacturers.

When I used to have rental properties, I once broke down in a moment of weakness and bought some cheap paint. That stuff was terrible to work with; lots of runs, lots of spatter when rolling it on and didn't hold up well at all. What I have always told people is to buy paint at the stores that just sell paint, the stores the professionals go to. As I think about it, Benjamine Moore is another good quality paint.

Added: I use Behr as an example because that's what HD sells a lot of. The cheap stuff I used was not Behr, but something else that was about half the price of SW.[/quote

how does the average joe interpret this info? better coverage, cleanability, tougher, stronger, longer lasting, less fading, faster drying, easier painting, less runs? sorry i dont know how to interpret those numbers

[cavalierowner]

With % of solids, more is better. But unless you know what you're looking for, this kind of information can be hard to find. I don't think I ever have seen it published on a can. That's why I tell people to go to the paint (and now wallpaper sometimes) only stores like Sherwin Williams. They always have the good quality paints the pros use. And you are going to get good, solid advice from the person behind the counter if you need it. With paint, you really get what you pay for.

As far as sheens others have been talking about, I tried flat paint on the walls of my rentals for a few years because it's better at hiding imperfections. But because it scuffed so much easier, I finally gave up. I now use only eggshell on spaces like living rooms, bedrooms, etc. and semigloss on kitchens and baths. I still use flat on ceilings. Same thing on my own home.

[Tom7227]

what is the difference between "big box" paint and the 2 recommended above? would like to know for basement finish

If you bought some of each you could tell the difference pretty quickly. In my experience I have had a lot better luck at the real paint stores in getting advice on what products to use, how to apply them and how to clean up. I go to Abbott in WBL for most of the stuff in my house and it just works out well for me. We've had rooms last for 15+ years in a house with kids. I used some cheap stuff in the basement and it just didn't go on well and gets dirty fast.

[crothmeier]

One thing ive seen is if you dont get a primer sealer on new sheetrock, the sheetrock (minus the mud joints) will soak up alot of paint. someone I know just painted new sheetrock on a ceiling and after 3 coats you can see everything. I primed it for her and then painted it and now its great.

Spend the money on a designated primer on new sheetrock. Valspar's "New Construction Primer" works great to seal everything up before painting.

[cavalierowner]

One thing ive seen is if you dont get a primer sealer on new sheetrock, the sheetrock (minus the mud joints) will soak up alot of paint. someone I know just painted new sheetrock on a ceiling and after 3 coats you can see everything. I primed it for her and then painted it and now its great.

Spend the money on a designated primer on new sheetrock. Valspar's "New Construction Primer" works great to seal everything up before painting.

Your post reminded me. If anyone is into helping out a company that does a lot of good for the community, Valspar (also a local paint manufacturer) donates every bit of paint used on every Habitat for Humanity project in the Twin Cities! They have a good line of products.