BWCA mining?

[Zelmsdawg]

Has anyone else heard of this?

http://environmentminnesota.org/

I'm curious if others who know more, know if this is a good possibility or just a sensational story?

[rugbymn]

They cite no sources or even articles to support their claims, yet they're asking for your money. I'll let you decide.

[Tom7227]

I don't know anything about the organization but you can find a great deal of material about the possibility of copper mining in Minnesota, some near the BWCA. Polymet is one of the leading companies mentioned in many of the articles. Do the Google and learn.

[mallardnwalleye]

There will be no minning in the BWCA. The minning will take place away from the BWCA. The concern is that groundwater and a river that flows into the BWCA may be polluted by tailings from the mine. Iron tailings produce rust- Sulfide minning tailings can produce sulfuric acid? The Polymet mine wouldn't really effect the BWCA watershed. The Franconia Mine and Duluth Metals mines could as they are in the watershed of the Kawishiwi River?

The big story is how we are basically throwing money at and eliminating wetland restrictions for the minning company Polymet.

A bill in congress has large blocks of US Forest Service Lands being sold to Polymet at a very noncompetitive (low) price. Many one for one wetland replacemnets may be overlooked. Polymet also will be recieving large subsidies from the IRRR.

I think you lease the public land to Polymet at as high a rate as you can, you have them post a billion(s) dollar enviromental damage bond, you have them abide by the same enviromental-wetland rules as everyone else, you have them remediate most of the public land they mine on and you give them no subsidies as minning is very profitable right now.

As for enviromental organizations-many are in the self employment business meaning they do little but take your $$$. I like to do my own analysis of a situation and send an email or phone call to my Represenitives.

[Raider4ever]

They cite no sources or even articles to support their claims, yet they're asking for your money. I'll let you decide.

Shocking.

[Sota2Florida]

mallardnwalleye,

Great post! Not often you see any logic on an internet forum.

[DTro]

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- New data suggest that a proposed mine near Ely contains one of the world's largest deposits of copper, nickel and precious metals, along with some of the largest platinum and palladium resources outside South Africa, the company planning the mine told analysts Wednesday.

Duluth Metals Ltd., the Canadian-based parent of Twin Metals Minnesota LLC, significantly boosted its estimates of what could be pulled from the mine based on the data projections, which are measured two ways.

The company said the site has "indicated resources" of 8 billion pounds of copper, 2.5 billion pounds of nickel and 12.1 million ounces of palladium, platinum and gold. The company is highly confident in those estimates because they are based on samples taken from a high number of drill sites.

Duluth Metals separately projects "inferred resources" of 13.5 billion pounds of copper, 4.6 billion pounds of nickel and 15.8 million ounces of precious metals. Those estimates are less certain because they're based on fewer bore holes.

"This is a monster deposit," Duluth Metals Chairman and CEO Christopher Dundas told analysts during a conference call. He estimated the value of the metals at more than $100 billion.

The site is just east of Birch Lake, about 15 miles southeast of Ely. Twin Metals has been drilling extensively in the area for several years and expects to update its projections in August with results from 170 more holes drilled over the past nine months. It also plans further explorations on other land it controls in the area.

Twin Metals said it expects to invest $2 billion to develop the mine and it will create hundreds of badly needed jobs in northeastern Minnesota. Any mining is likely years off. The company is doing a "prefeasibility study" to lay the foundation for the mine plan and environmental impact statements, and that's not expected to be completed until the end of 2013, at the earliest.

Another copper-nickel mine proposed for northeastern Minnesota near Hoyt Lakes is further along. PolyMet Mining Corp. has been revising an environmental impact statement since federal regulators rejected it in 2009. It expects to have the new one early next year. PolyMet says its $600 million open pit project would create about 350 jobs.

Duluth Metals President Vern Baker said the tonnage and grade projections for Twin Metals are significantly higher than PolyMet's projected 32,000 tons of ore per day. Twin Metals projects 80,000 tons a day.

Environmental groups are fighting both projects because the minerals are bound up in sulfur compounds that can leach sulfuric acid and other pollutants when exposed to the elements. They fear runoff from the Twin Metals mine would flow into the pristine Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, and that PolyMet's runoff would reach Lake Superior.

Betsy Daub, policy director for the Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness, said Wednesday's announcement is "a call for Minnesotans to learn more about sulfide mining and what it could mean for this region, and weigh in on whether right next door to the Boundary Waters is the right location for something like this."

No mine of this type has ever managed to avoid polluting nearby waters, Daub said, adding that the record around the world shows they fail to deliver promised economic benefits.

The mining industry insists that modern technology can put Minnesota on the forefront of mining these minerals in an environmentally responsible way.

"Our critics like to use the term 'This isn't your grandfather's mine' and they're absolutely correct," said Bob McFarlin, vice president of public and governmental affairs for Twin Metals. "The mining of yesterday that may have caused problems is a thing of the past."

Frank Ongaro, executive director of the industry group Mining Minnesota, said the announcement "puts an exclamation point" on how companies keep finding more and more minerals in northeastern Minnesota. "That adds up to more economic benefit, more jobs for a longer period of time," he said.

The announcement came two weeks after the state approved 77 leases for minerals exploration on state and private land in the region and the U.S. Forest Service signed off on environmental protections to clear the way for the Bureau of Land Management to issue 29 permits for prospecting on federal land there.

[itchmesir]

Quote:

"The mining of yesterday that may have caused problems is a thing of the past."

Ah.. So that's why these things don't happen.. right?

http://www.wqow.com/story/18557444/frac-sand-sediment-spills-into-st-croix-river

[Stick in Mud]

Thanks for the post, ichmesir. I was just thinking about posting a link to that article, and you beat me to it.

[Tom7227]

An example of what can happen. It is late and I may have my facts a bit wrong.

In 1972 or 1977 the legislature set the limit of sulfide that can enter a watershed at 10ppb. Last session the legislature, without any scientific input, passed a bill raising the limit to 250 ppb. I read some material that indicated that limit would cause damage to wild rice within the watershed that was going to be impacted.

Who cares about wild rice?

Sort of not the point. IMO legislators are too interested in supporting 'jobs' without any concern of the long term costs to society as a whole.

The world has not run out of copper. How about letting other places destroy what they have and leave ours where it is? Of course I am a 612er (really a 651er) so what I think about this stuff doesn't really count.

[Stick in Mud]

Oh come on, Tom. Screw the grandkids. Let's get jobs now.

[mallardnwalleye]

An example of what can happen. It is late and I may have my facts a bit wrong.

In 1972 or 1977 the legislature set the limit of sulfide that can enter a watershed at 10ppb. Last session the legislature, without any scientific input, passed a bill raising the limit to 250 ppb. I read some material that indicated that limit would cause damage to wild rice within the watershed that was going to be impacted.

Who cares about wild rice?

Sort of not the point. IMO legislators are too interested in supporting 'jobs' without any concern of the long term costs to society as a whole.

The world has not run out of copper. How about letting other places destroy what they have and leave ours where it is? Of course I am a 612er (really a 651er) so what I think about this stuff doesn't really count.

Thanks for the info Tom. Quote "Last session the legislature, without any scientific input, passed a bill raising the limit to 250 ppb." If that's true maybe some big time lobbying was going on to get this specific limit raised?.

From what I hear big big world (swiss banks) money is behind the mine. I am not saying that what they are doing is wrong as I sure don't know if what they are going to do would really affect anything. It just sounds like some legislators are going about this in the wrong way.

[itchmesir]

With how fast technology changes in today's world... there's no way we need to destroy earthen to find these "precious" metals.. if we actually recycled our computers and cellphones instead of sending them to recycling depots that just send them overseas to be mined by gangs for profit.. we'd probably be able to close a ton of mines if we just mined our garbage..

It's only a matter of time.. we already mine landfills for find trends in our society.. in some aspects that a-hole Scott Walker is right.. we'll be mining landfills for resources down the line..(hopefully not due to the fact that we stopped recycling programs)

[Tom7227]

I cannot find the exact language of the legislation that I noted above but here is a reference to what I mentioned.

http://www.friends-bwca.org/2011/03/legislation-threatens-minnesotas-wild-rice/

A great deal of info can be found at: http://waterlegacy.org/wild_rice

Note that I am not supporting the positions on either web site and I am only offering the info for background purposes. Not saying any of it is wrong but I just don't want to 'sign on' to either group or their positions.

Tom

[mallardnwalleye]

Thanks again for the information Tom- interesting stuff.

I can't say I support or don't support the mines but I can say the more we learn the better decisions we will push our legislature to have.

I spoke with someone and they told me that the river morphology is such that river areas below the mines can't support wild rice because it's not naturally conducive to (Too fast,rocky and deep)? ? I don't know if that is true or not as your attachment makes it seem like wild rice won't grow below an exsisting mine due to high sulfites.

[Timber]

Let's put it another way. There is no mine of this type, anywhere in the world, where they haven't done environmental damage. Nowhere. If Polymet gets the OK, there are many other mines/companies ready to do the same. They are doing test drilling all over northeast MN right now. Do you fish or hunt up there? Then you better be really concerned.

[T-water]

Is there a group that is opposing this...coordinating efforts?

[itchmesir]

If you live in the area.. You can probably get a hold of the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency.. You can get info on what you can help to do to help monitor the area.. I've worked with them before.. they will send you all the equipment for free.. all you gotta do is the measuring.. I use to just do rain measuring and water clarity for local streams.. the more numbers and stats groups like this can get pre-mine the better.. that way they have plenty of evidence to back up the impact the.. more than likely inevitable... mine has on water and runoff

[James_R]

I live up there and would love to see some more mining activity and jobs in the area. There's plenty of room for both tourism and mining.

[Hory]

Mine away! Jobs jobs jobs!

[itchmesir]

I live up there and would love to see some more mining activity and jobs in the area. There's plenty of room for both tourism and mining.

Would be nice to have some room for nature too

[James_R]

How many tens of millions of state and federal acres do we need in this country? We currently have plenty of space for both urban vacationers, profit seeking miners and mine companies.

[Timber]

Famous last words! When it's gone, it's gone.

[mainbutter]

How many tens of millions of state and federal acres do we need in this country?

If it were up to me, at least 50% of the total landmass in the lower 48. We could also do with a couple hundred million fewer people in this country.

I get depressed when I realize there isn't too much I can do about changing those numbers, but I do what I can.

[delcecchi]

You do what you can to have there be a couple hundred million fewer people in the country? I presume you would plan on being one of the one left? Or you going to contribute to the reduction? Who gets to pick who gets made into soylent green?

And you could donate your property to the nature conservancy. That would help.