Ontario vs. Minnesota

[BLACKJACK]

A few years back when a friend and I went to pick up some minnows from an unnamed bait shop in the cities that sold minnows by the dozen. As the owner of the shop was counting them out, my friend asked him "So what are their names..?"

I'll have to remember that line!!!!

[fishadb]

The place where I buy a lot of bait is a husband wife team, He will count out shiners and pike minnows, she gives you a scoop.

[MN_Jay]

You are being shortsighted here. It's not like these cities popped up when they realized that casinos exist and they can shop cheaper here. Do some research and you'll find that most of these cities you mention were incorporated in the 1800's. I really doubt that rv'ing and casinos were the primary factor.

I'll even go one further and say that BEFORE Toronto was incorporated during the 1800's, it was the target of invasions by Americans.

If you actually ask them, rather than speak for them you would realize that they see the proximity to the US as a convenience for the things you mention. The thought that these places were settled just because of the convenience the US could give them is ludicrous.

One more thing and I'm done. The recent influx of Canadians coming here to spend money is relatively new, only since the exchange rate became almost dead even did this happen. Up until then, we used to go there for cheap shopping. Hey maybe we are backwards here, maybe people are only living in New York for the cheap Canadian shopping they had until about 10 years ago.

Yes MNJay, I'm sure modern canadians live so close to the U.S. in order to take advantage of our shared navigable waterways while riding around in freighters and steamships. Have you seen all of the canadian license plates at the malls, supermarkets and casinos in N. Dakota, Minnesota and Michigan? Canada ranks 4th in the world in per capita gambling expenditures and they love to play down here. Canadian RV owners take advantage of our better roads to spend the winters in Texas or AZ and day trippers can shop here while avoiding oppressive HST taxes. These people far exceed the number of us that go up there to fish in the summer. It doesn’t seem that way when crossing the border with your boat in July but you have to look at the whole year. There is a real economic and leisure benefit for Canadians to live close to the U.S. like they do in Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. There’s no doubt that Ontario has some incredible fishing but if they’re going to be stingy with their bag limits even though there’s more than enough to go around and try to sell me minnows for $6.50 a dozen while counting them out one by one I might as well stay here in the states. It’s certainly their country and they can do as they please but they really seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to trade and tourism.

[Down Deep]

75% of Canadians live within 50 miles of the Great Lake which is where their industry and shipping was and still is. This is the reason the Canadians live close to the US border. The shopping, casinos and travel is an afterthought of their economy.

Living within 3 hours of the Ontario border I fish in Canada 5 or 6 times each year. There is no doubt that the overall fishing success is night and day compared with the US. I can only speak for myself, but my main attraction is that the lakes I fish are largely uninhabited and provide much more of an outdoor wilderness experience. Most of the lakes are not accessible by paved road or even a good road for that matter. I think this discourages many people form traveling to these lakes. True the regulations can be a bit challenging, but once you are 25 to 50 miles beyond the border the limit is 4 walleyes, 4 pike which are not much different than Minnesota. This is not a problem with me and I get my belly full of fish while I'm there and always have a few to bring home. I always look at it like this - it’s fishing trip, not a harvest – and a great outdoor experience summer or winter.

[CaptainMusky]

Here's a question for you. Do Ontario and MN have the same regulations pertaining to transporting of harvested fish ie how they are cleaned? I ask because if it were more lax in say Ontario and you brought the fish back to MN, would you get your butt in a bind if checked?

[Down Deep]

Ontario requires fish to be packaged in a way that the species can be identified (skin on) and they can be easily counted. We package our fish by putting two whole fillets with the skin facing out in either ziplock or food saver bags. When crossing the US border I ask for a border check the fillets and get a stamp or receipt. That way I can possess legal Ontario and Minnesota limits. I alway fillet and pack my Minnesota fish the same way. Never had them checked though.

[BobT]

75% of Canadians live within 50 miles of the Great Lake which is where their industry and shipping was and still is. This is the reason the Canadians live close to the US border. The shopping, casinos and travel is an afterthought of their economy.

Living within 3 hours of the Ontario border I fish in Canada 5 or 6 times each year. There is no doubt that the overall fishing success is night and day compared with the US. I can only speak for myself, but my main attraction is that the lakes I fish are largely uninhabited and provide much more of an outdoor wilderness experience. Most of the lakes are not accessible by paved road or even a good road for that matter. I think this discourages many people form traveling to these lakes. True the regulations can be a bit challenging, but once you are 25 to 50 miles beyond the border the limit is 4 walleyes, 4 pike which are not much different than Minnesota. This is not a problem with me and I get my belly full of fish while I'm there and always have a few to bring home. I always look at it like this - it’s fishing trip, not a harvest – and a great outdoor experience summer or winter.

[MN_Jay]

75% of Canadians live within 50 miles of the Great Lake which is where their industry and shipping was and still is. This is the reason the Canadians live close to the US border. The shopping, casinos and travel is an afterthought of their economy.

Some common sense. Thank you!

[James_R]

If you drive around many of the cities in Ontario you don't see much shipping or industry going on right now. It's not 1899 and the great lakes shipping industry is a shadow of its former self due to the shift towards containerized rail cargo originating in Vancouver or Halifax which now bypasses the great lakes entirely. Capital is leaving these great lakes cities and is shifting westward towards oil and mineral exploration. This is the only thing that is keeping America Jr alive right now. I don't think all of The Canadians waiting in 3 hour long lines at the Windsor tunnel near Detroit consider our American amenities I mentioned earlier to be an economic afterthought. The only real growth industry in Ontario right now besides government seems to be mining. Of course I only live on the border and don't just go to Canada for some fishing in the bush so what do I know.

[delcecchi]

My view is that Winnipeg isn't the city that it is where it is because it is a convenient drive to Fargo or Thief River Falls. As for how these cities are doing, Detroit and Duluth aren't exactly pillars of prosperity.

[Down Deep]

Check the link for information about the Canadian economy.

http://www.investorsfriend.com/Canadian%20GDP%20Canadian%20imports%20and%20exports.htm

[theharvester]

with the mortality rate of 6 percent you killed more walleye then if you kept six and quit in minn. why would you keep fishing after you catch 50 or so switch species for a while and if your using live bait why not switch after a few hundred and save money on bait?

[superbee]

[James_R]

What? You guys are constantly avoiding Canadian taxes by driving down to the states in cars full of empty suitcases, going to the malls, filling up the baggage with new clothes minus the price tags and trying to pass them off at the border as used. MN doesn't charge taxes on food or clothing so a lot of the excessive taxes you speak of come from your country's border taxation policies which should be fought by the U.S. and brought to the attention of the World Trade Organization for unfair trade practices in my opinion. As far as fishing goes, the number of North American fishermen has been declining for a number of years now so this whole movement towards reduced bag limits doesn't seem rooted in reality. If Ontario wants to keep gouging our shrinking pool of American fishermen with high taxes and reduced limits then I suppose you'll eventually have all the fish in the world but no one left to go fishing and no one left at your resorts. They'll be boarded up like the many paper mills and maufacturing plants that litter your cities.

[superbee]

You assume everyone is breaking the rules. I claim the goods I import, not worth getting caught and paying a fine plus the tax. I never stated we pay excessive taxes, you are the one claiming that. The fishing is excellent for a reason and the lower limits help insure it will be around for years to come. The non resident fisherman gets 1/2 the HST tax back on their packages, so the taxation on US fisherman you speak of appears to be the same as I pay in MN or what you would pay if staying at a MN resort. Bottom line as far as this topic goes, it is way off topic now. Ontario vs Minnesota is about the fishery and on that matter, Ontario seems to have more to offer other than just lower limits. In most cases, fishing is lots better. The slot size is needed and help improve the fishery. On most water bodies here, walleye must reach 17" before they are good spawners. Ironically most fish kept are lucky to have spawned once. That is why it is so impoortant to put those fish over 18" back so there is a good stock of spawning fish. That may be why MN is more put and take. I guess we will agree to disagree.

[Stick in Mud]

What are we arguing about???

[Down Deep]

You are right. There is no reason for an argument here. The fishing is better in Ontario.

As a Duluth businessperson and owner of a retail store I welcome the Canadians who shop in my store. Their money is as good as anybody else's as far as I concerned. I also do phone orders and internet business with many Canadians, many who are long time customers. I will tell you from experience that most of the Canadians who shop at the retail establishments in our area are very meticulous in obtaining receipts. Most of them carry envelopes in there purses or pockets for just this purpose. I'm sure some of them cut the tags out and wash their cloths before they head home, but there are lots of leeches, extra cigarettes and booze that the US boys stash in their thermos bottles and sleeping bags. Most of us, whether US or Canadians, follow the rules.

[MN_Jay]

America Jr? Wow, you sure are showing your true colors.

As for it not being 1899, obviously it is not. So what? Do you think people are going to abandon multimillion people cities because they don't use the great lakes as much? You have to use some common sense here, Toronto is not going to cease to exist once the conveniences of living close to the border are not there.

You are so shortsighted that I'm not sure why I bother to argue.

[rkhinrichs]

give me your best mn lake trout lake (besides the great lakes), and ill out fish you up in Ontario!!! dont get me wrong im a minnesota guy to the core but when it comes to lake trout fishing you cant bet Ontario!

[jmd1]

"Canadian RV owners take advantage of our better roads to spend the winters in Texas or AZ and day trippers can shop here while avoiding oppressive HST taxes."

Here in az this winter, we did not have near as many snowbirds as in the past. the roadways were clear and easy driving. However due to the housing crash most of our homes are being purchased by the canadians. Good for us i guess.