Do this now or loose your rights! Sign the petition!

[870Express]

I keep thinking of those Ben O. Williams clips you see with 8 or 9 brits out West pointing, honoring and then all relocating to pin down covey after covey, hill after hill. And doing it every day. I'd be hard to believe he has less than 4 breeding-age females and I can't imagine a better possible life for a dog. I don't want to live under a gov where that can't happen.

I don't want my brit to know that exists or next time he's without ecollar I have a feeling he'd take off West without me.

[FCspringer]

Let me speak English then. Labs/Ken your a wise man. First off it does not state breedable dogs, "intact" don't forget that stupid tactic by anti's right there.... Also it refers to INTERNET sales... God forbid many great reputable breeders have a dang HSOforum, "BIG frickin deal" it is the 20th century... Also it states you will have to have the potential buyer come to your place... What that will affect is any reputable breeder trial campaigner or gun dog buyer, not have the ability to have a future foundation dog or great gun dog from some of the greatest breeding, flown in from one side of the nation to the other or from Canada, the UK or else where. Many like to keep the "British tradition " alive in their breeding programs... I want the choice to buy a pup or dog from whom I want, when I want, where I want... The USDA does not know my dogs better then I do PERIOD... Nor any one Else's. It seems Communism is alive and well in the US if you wish to support this rubbish. More Gov control points to just that. I believe in freedom, and the right to produce the best gun dogs I can. Along with the health testing we do and the 36 month health guarantee, I will now add the stipulation that every pup will have to be pre registered with AKC only. And the prospective new owner will sign this petition while in affect.. Or you will look else where for a dog. I have to choose my family's better it seems. The ones that believe in the American sportsman's right only. We did stick to hunting homes till now, but we feel this does not ask much more. It will be detrimental to the best of the best of every gun dog breed in the US Canada and the UK. Why on Gods green earth would they not let me buy a dog and have it flown in sight not seen from some of the best proven blood lines in the world, to keep the tradition of fine gun dogs alive. You may be a few not supporting AKC, and all great gun dog breeders every where. But lets point the finger back at you. What makes you right over the thousands and thousands and growing signers along with AKC the foundation of all great gun dogs in this Nation... Toss out the breeder that keeps an entire litter to find the best one or two to reproduce great dogs, and sell the rest as hunting / house dogs. I wish to do that from time to time. Do you think for one second a puppy miller will do that? Get real man. I know many great breeders that do. This will be very bad for them and you in the long haul. If a USDA ding bat thinks he knows my dogs better then me sight un seen, he has a big gap of air between his ears and so does any one who would support it, I say again such rubbish. The gun dog hall of fame will no longer be the same I guess if this passes. But you will be able to still buy a puppy from un proven dogs in the news paper from a back yard breeder who thinks he has the best dog on earth.. I ask compared to what???? the last 1 or 2 he owned and bred to his buddy's dog he bred with no real proven ability other then a few hunting trips and no heath testing???. Serious people in these games have a passion for "IMPROVING" the breed. And doing so against hundreds of dogs, not just 1 or 2 you and your buddy have seen in a life time... If I miss spelled any thing I apologize in advance.

[brittman]

Whoa (pun intended). Way too long a post FCS. You lost 95% of your potetnial readers in the 1st paragraph. Well I guess I meant sentance, since your post is one dang long paragraph.

FCS I tend to agree with what you are trying to say. I have had first class dogs from solid bird dog stock. Some I have picked out and some have been flown to me sight unseen. I enjoy hunting with dogs and training dogs, but do not confuse that with the need to "clone" or breed them.

Often legistlation starts extreme in order to find some compromised ground that works more most. Hopefully that is the case here.

[FCspringer]

Heres a short one. If you were lost here or one of the other posts by another, most likely, you did not read the whole legislation either.

[FCspringer]

Another short one. You can not legislate stupidity!

[FCspringer]

Another short one. In order to live in CA and buy a dog for your program or hunting. From a dog in PA drive your silly-me off and loose a week of work or go with the news paper dog, LOL I would like the option to get one as said from whom I want when I want where ever I want in order to improve the breed... Don't sign, stand in the road and get run over by the AKC bus, cause it's a commin. Name a field trialer from any breed that agrees to not sign. Might be a clue.

[FCspringer]

Not worried about grammar, just good bird dogs.

[brittman]

Another short one. You can not legislate stupidity!

That is about all we ever attempt to legistlate now ... right ?

[brittman]

Heres a short one. If you were lost here or one of the other posts by another, most likely, you did not read the whole legislation either.

How many legislative members have read and comprehended every word of the bill they just voted on ?

Also remember on many issues you have the 5% - 15% on the one side and the 5%-15% or so on the otherside that are passsionate about the subject.

Those in the middle are too busy, too ignorant or not impacted enough to care. It is the ability to sway those in the middle that often decides the outcome of the the bill, election, amendment.

Good Luck.

[FCspringer]

Let me speak slower. Sign, the, petition.

[Rick]

Bottom line is, if you truly know dogs, I mean truly know them then you will sign this petition. If you're arguing for this rule I guarantee you do not know dogs and you do not know some of the best breeders on the planet, many of whom we will lose with this silly rule.

Those awesome breeders who will leave would rather shut down than give up their beloved 9-16 year old female friends.

I understand some of you don't get the affinity towards dogs some of us have. As well as your lack of knowledge of some of the field trialers out there truly working to improve the breed they are focused on.

THIS BAD RULE WILL NOT AFFECT PUPPY MILLS IF ENACTED

If you truly love good dogs at a reasonable price you will sign the petition to block the rule as it is now proposed. The AKC backs signing this petition.

That should tell those of you who truly know dogs how poor this rule is.

PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION IF YOU LOVE GOOD GUNDOGS.

[cavalierowner]

PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION IF YOU LOVE GOOD GUNDOGS.

Please sign the petition if you love dogs of ANY breed!!

[BLACKJACK]

Whoa (pun intended). Way too long a post FCS. You lost 95% of your potetnial readers in the 1st paragraph. Well I guess I meant sentance, since your post is one dang long paragraph.

So true, I skipped it.

[RumRiverRat]

The spelling in the title of this post needs to be tightened up.

Signed

[FCspringer]

BJ, That does not surprise me. You most likely did not read the bill either. Do puppy mills keep an entire litter and only use the best 1 as a future foundation dog??? Health testing??? Absolutely not! Now say this litter is 6 females strong. Are you calling that hall of fame breeder now a puppy mill?

Are you the guy who looks all over for a great well bred dog? If you found one in the UK are you going to get in your duck boat and paddle over there? Going to drive from CA to PA to see your pup. I trust the breeders that field trial, and prove dogs against the best. And have no problem having one with a guarantee flown in. Something you don't get from your news paper seller with 1 dog, no health testing, and proven to be the best of nothing...

I challenge all breeders of fine dogs to have your clients support AKC and not let people like this obtain one of your dogs..

[FCspringer]

So true, I skipped it.

Since you choose to call us puppy mills. I see you love bird watching? This may be a clue to us you are an anti sportsman. You might be against dogs being used to hunt birds possibly???

[BLACKJACK]

You might be against dogs being used to hunt birds possibly???

Just because I won't sign your stupid petition? Guess again, I've run 1-2 labs the last 25 years and have shot a lot of pheasants over them in that time.

[Tom7227]

down boys, down. be good or you'll have to go to your kennel where there is no internet connection

[LABS4ME]

Just because I won't sign your stupid petition? Guess again, I've run 1-2 labs the last 25 years and have shot a lot of pheasants over them in that time.

Blackjack,

I know you pheasant hunt and love labs. I respect that. I also respect anyone's opinion on if they agree with what is in this petition or not... I think that many people who do not breed (including the occassional, I have the best dog ever, can I breed it to yours), would not know enough about this petition to give a rip. But it WILL eventually affect them.

I can assure you this is NOT a 'stupid' petition. In the breeding world it is a big deal. It WILL impact the good breeders and it WILL NOT not have any impact on the puppy mills. Puppy Mills exist with current laws and penalties. They will exist with any law and penalties set forth in the future. They are driven by money and greed and have no love for a breed or making it better. I know you think that anyone with more than a couple dogs is a puppy mill, but that truely is not the case. I'll bet that within the 4 generations on your dog's pedigree, that at least 4 dogs minimum came from a trial kennel with at least 20 dogs in it. Just the way it is. They provide the top dogs that people seek. With this law, some of those operations will be impacted and may just quit breeding. Maybe, maybe not. But why take that chance. Your dog and it's breeder, probably got their foundation stock from some well known kennel (Even if it is back 2-3 generations it has a big part of the makeup of your dog) with titled dogs and they may not have that opportunity to start a line with said animals in the future. Thus making it harder to find a quality pup for your breeder and eventually.... you!. I think I have produced some outstanding dogs in my 15 or so breedings... but I can assure you the backbone of my work was done by some very large, very respected lab breeders. They are as far removed from a puppy mill as you can be... except for the fact that they have many dogs also. It is incredible to see some of these kennels and the love of the breed by it's owner.

You will ALWAYS be able to find a 'lab' to pheasant hunt with... it's just that I really don't think we can afford to lose any quality breeders because of new laws being put into place making it harder for these breeders to stay in compliance with the govt. The end result is less quality breedings by small breeders producing more and more unproven stock. That in the end will not be a good thing for anyone.... except the puppy mills! Because demand WILL go up! As I said, they will get around it one way or another and profit from this law.

I guess I wouldn't expect most people who do not breed to care about or sign the petition, but in the end, passage of this law in the future can potentially change the dynamics of your puppy purchases. For that alone they should consider signing it.

Good Luck!

Ken

[brittman]

Those awesome breeders who will leave would rather shut down than give up their beloved 9-16 year old female friends.

Many do sell their dogs as they pass prime breeding age. Why not spay them and take them out of the breeder count?

[gspman]

Quote:

When people start getting over 4-5-6-10 dogs you have to wonder how much individual attention they're getting, odds are some of the non-favorates, the breeders, are spending 23 1/2 hours a day in their kennels.

Generally folks with those types of operations have hired help. There are a number of highly regarded breeders/trainers in this state that have 10+ dogs. These are people that compete at a national caliber level. These people cover multiple breeds - setters, pointers, gsps, gwps, labs, springers - and they are all from MN. Some English Pointer trainers take 40+ dogs from the southern states to the prairies in the Dakotas and Canada to train on wild birds in the spring and summer. They have a lot of hired help and work their a$$e$ off to give every dog the bird exposure they need to develop or finish off. They are up before the sun rises and after the sun sets working dogs. Owning a dog from one of these breeders is on my bucket list - a white Miller bred pointer is in my future.

Quote:

if I call a breeder and they have 5 females I think 'puppy mill'.

Some are puppy mills and some are high quality breeders. Body count does not define quality. I've talked with one dog owners selling pups that didn't even know the dogs in their dogs pedigree. I had to tell someone once which dogs in his dog's pedigree were Hall Of Fame. He acted surprised. I know of some breeders with 5+ females who are walking encyclopedias of the breed. They know which lines cross well, what traits a particular dog throws, what risks they have in certain breedings, and so on. You can only determine this by talking with a breeder and asking a ton of questions. Which breeder would you want a pup from? I'll take the quality breeder every time.

[BLACKJACK]

down boys, down. be good or you'll have to go to your kennel where there is no internet connection

Thanks Tom, a good chuckle in the morning is always good!!

Kennel!!

Good posts Labs and GSPman, may have to reconsider my thoughts on kennels and numbers, was doing too much 'assuming'. My current 9 month old lab pup came from a larger kennel and as I work with her and see how calm and smart she is, I realize that she does have some very good breeding behind her. The only complaint I have with her is her size but thats a subject for another post.

[deerminator]

I guess I have no idea why having a lot of females or dogs period wouldn't allow you to give them the attention needed or make you lock them up in a kennel all day? The breeder we got our second beagle from has a number of trained hunters that produce a signifcant amount of litters each year. They have immaculate, heated kennels with a large fenced in run that is several acres in size that the dogs get turned out into for much of the day. I agree, # of dogs and/or litters does not constitute a puppy mill or automatically mean that the dogs are going to be treated poorly.

[jasonmichalski]

#65859 to sign keep on passing the great info. ;)If not for this site I would have not known about this.