a few downrigger questions

[Hoffer]

So my first question is line. Do you guys prefer mono or no stretch? I used Mono last summer and it seemed to work fine. But I am wondering how no stretch would work with say a 20 foot mono leader?

Also, about lures. We only trolled some smaller spoons. We had plenty of action so didnt switch up lures - but probably should have. I wanted to try some bigger lures - and therefore heavier. Will the line "false trip" more with a bigger lure? I also wanted to try one with a bigger lip - like maybe something that dives. Is it best to stick with a lure without a lip like a shallow diving rapala?

Last, I have seen these machines they sell to put out an electric signal and you can adjust the signal output to match the species you are after. They are about 120 bucks and just didnt know if it would be worth it.

Any other tips for downrigging would be appreciated - I just started last year and it was fun and we got things dialed in pretty well - but would like to improve if possible.

Thanks!

Hoffer

[Sutty]

Good Morning!

On your first question of mono vs. a braided line. Most use 20 lb mono, some do use fluorocarbon. Depending on what you are running you might only have 15-25 feet of line out before attaching to the downrigger. You may have problems getting your releases to hold a braided line. I have not tried running a braid off my riggers but I doubt it would increase your catch rate. Some people do downsize their line to 15 lb. mono after the sun comes up to reduce the line profile. I have tried this with some success but I have had some increased break offs so I don't do this often. I don't think that salmon are line shy, I do think they get tired of the parade of boats with 9 lines, downrigger cables, planer boards etc. lots of noise in the water if they aren't actively feeding.

Most downrigger releases are adjustable. If you are having a problem with them tripping than you can tighten them down. Your lure selection depends a lot on what species you are fishing for. In the spring you can target browns and bows in shallow using crankbaits. I mainly target kings and bows and don't use them much. If the alewives are running smaller usually standard spoons work better. If they are running bigger than the magnums usually do better, that's sort of a rule of thumb but you know what they say about rules!

There is a ton of great gear for great lakes fishing and if you have bought all of it than maybe I would try the positive ion signal stuff. But I would be well stocked on other gear first

[Cheetah]

Sutty's fish call is "C'Mere Fish". It works.

[DREZLER]

I recommend mono, XT in fact just because it is a little tougher.

Everyone has different releases they like. I learned to like Walker releases because thats what almost EVERYONE uses up on LOTW when I first got into it. If you can get a release to fire because of a 12" walleye you wont have problems with any other kind of fish.

I fish with one guy who 'loves his releases' yet half of the 4-6 lb Lake trout we catch in his boat don't release.

[Sutty]

I have used Ande tournament (the green tinted one) for mono and really like it. I also have heard good reports on Berkley Big Game.

[Hoffer]

Drezler

I am going to check in to those releases - have heard they are good to. The ones I use now are the "standard issue" ones that come with the brand of my downrigger. Last Summer we had many times when trolling that we didnt have any fish on...only to check the downrigger and realize that we DID have a fish on - but it was around 4 pounds and we were dragging it all over the lake. BTW, I am mostly interested in Laker stuff - where we fish its for Lakers.

Thanks!

Hoffer

[Sutty]

I should point out that the line setups I was referring to was for salmon on Lake Michigan. If you are chasing Lakers on Superior that might be a little different. I have used my Lake Michigan stuff on Superior but only on one weekend.

If you are setting releases in the dark look at the Scotty brand as well they are much easier to see in the dark. They have a chartreuse tip that lights up.

[Hoffer]

Chasing Laker on Manitou.

But also chasing deeper walleyes and such in other lakes as well.

[tunrevir]

I use the trilene big game and have used the ande as well and both have performed well.

One option if your having a problem with fish not tripping your releases is to wrap a rubber band around the line and put the rubber band into the release. I have used the number 13 rubber bands. The rubber band will stretch and break under a few pounds of pressure. This is also an option if you want to use the super braids off your release.

The rubber band method also works well for less scrappy fish like walleyes.

Tunrevir~

[Surface Tension]

Here on Lake Superior and Inland lake Trout.

For the downrigger rods mono will get you by just fine most of the time.

I tend to stay with 14-17 lb test there.

Later in Sept when the pattern for lake trout is deep water 150-200+ ft mono is going to stretch on you. Now add a downrigger rod with not a lot of backbone in the mix and the mono is far from an ideal situation. When picking up line with the succession of lifting the rod tip and cranking down, the line stretches and the rod loads and unloads. Then you have a reel that is know for picking up line fast. Still you can get by with the mono but you can see how a braid would help out.

Not having releases trip happens but with experience they become less and when it does happen don't go by unnoticed.

Being able to adjust them and duplicate the tension.

The Blacks and Walker are very good for bring able to adjust the tension once and keep that tension all day long.

These releases are inline with the cable and ball.

Blacks Release

The Walker release is one of my favorites for an inline release.

There are set fast and the tension with each set very consistent.

That consistency is good for tripping pressure but just as important and maybe more so you'll have less trips when you set the rod int he holder and load it up. Being down 150-200 ft and have to bring up a ball because it tripped on account if a weak set is frustrating.

Downside to the inline releases if there is one is you have to keep an eye on them to detect a strike. That is when a rod tip or rigger will make it bonce.

Shaker Style Releases.

These are the pinch pad releases attached to the ball with a length of cable w/snap lock.

Downside is they are not as consistent as the inline releases.

Plus is the length of cable. With the rod loaded the line will pull up on the release.

On a hookup that doesn't release that hinge effect will be detected at the rod tip and that is where

"Shaker" come from.

Stacker Releases.

Adding a release anywhere above the bottom set and the surface.

Some use two pinch pads and a cross lock.

I've used them all and have to say that Scotty stacker is the fastest to set and my favorite.

No problem using large spoons with any downrigger release. After all Flashers and Dodgers with spoons and flies are used with these releases.

One tip I'll add for now is trolling speed.

What your speed is on top the surface is usually not what your lure speed is.

One word there, Currents.

For $500 you can add a Sub Troll to your rig to give you temp and speed at the ball.

Without that you pay attention to the blowback on your downrigger balls.

Going into the current you'll notice an increase in blowback. Going with current you'll notice the balls tracking closer to the boat. Side currents and the balls will swing to the side.

If your running a rotator pay attention to the rod tip. Even with the line attached to a release you can see the pulse of the rotators which will tell your lure speed.

[Hoffer]

Great info surface!!!

Thanks!!

Love the pics too.

So, one question with those walker inline releases.

So your saying when a fish hits - the line wont release? You just have to watch your rod tip for it to shake and then what do you do? Do you just hit the rod hard and pop the line out yourself and then reel in the fish? I really like the idea of not having to reel up for a tripped line when your setting it - as I have a manual downrigger and that is a pain. However, I think I prefer when a fish hits - for the line to release and the rod then sets up.

Also, isnt that style harder on your line? you would think it would really weaken the line?

Also, how often do you use flashers? Last year we went very basic - tied a smaller sized spoon on and just went down to about 35 feet and we caught trout on about every run. The thing is - we caught mostly all the same size - "smaller" ones in the 6 to 8 pound range and we would like to try and target larger fish. I wondered if flashers would help as well as going with a bigger spoon or larger lure.

Last question, I was thinking of trying a 'stacker' this year and getting a double rod holder. So I have been wondering how difficult it is to run a stacker - I could see potentially a lot of line mix ups and tangles? Do you find that to be true? I like the idea of trying 2 baits at different depths. If anything you could use that method at first and then see if the fish are hitting most consistently at one depth and then just switch to a single rod.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Transporter]

In almost forty years of fishing with downriggers and the great lakes I have used virtually every release made at one time or another from Mac-Jac to Roemers. Personally I have settled on the Blacks release, the reason being is that I run braid for some rods and mono for others, Blacks perform the same on any type line. Pincher type release will fail with braid over time and the line wears the pads out quickly. For stacking my choice is the Roemer release, it automatically relases and slides freely down the cable when you bring the ball up and works equally well with any type line. Another plus with the Blacks is they are fool proof and consistent, back when I was fishing for money that was the only release I could allow customers to rig and not worry about it, they are that simple. I like the ones without the cable like that in the photo, just the release clipped to the end of the cable and the leader and ball below the release.

I almost never run flashers for Lake trout, in my experience they have taken smaller fish and can lose fish unless one is very careful when they break the surface. They create alot of drag on the setback, and you can't fish as close to the bottom as they want to hang up if you get close. My choice for lakers is spoons ranging from 3-6 inches and when the big fish are on the reefs J-Plugs take more big fish than anything else, but don't overlook the old Flatfish. Stacking for trout can be iffy depending on where the fish are, if there are some suspended fish it can work, if not, it's a waste of time and effort. Active feeding lake trout will easily come up 20-30' to hit a bait. A good rule of thumb is to stack like baits only, spoons on top of spoons, plugs over plugs, I like to put a minimum of 20' between the baits when fishing lakers, for salmon I would go 12-15' but I was trolling faster which would prevent the top lure from sinking as quickly on inside turns reducing tangles. One method that has always helped produce big fish is when fishing structure like a hump or reef was to keep one line at the same depth as the shallowest part of the hump when you are approaching or leaving the hump and into deep water. Many times I have found big fish relating to that depth suspended over much deeper water ambushing smaller baifish coming off the top of the hump.

Thats enough for now, I don't want to write a book, to much work proofreading.

[Surface Tension]

Hoofer, the releases are supposed to release. As mentioned that doesn't always happen.

While it might seem like trolling is a set it and forget it deal, or should I say wait till you see a release tripped and a rod bent over it isn't and paying attention to the minor details is what will put fish in the box.

Watching the rod tips even thought they're set to releases will tell you things.

In this case avoiding dragging a fish around that didn't pop the release. If its a small fish it'll stop thrashing in short order. If you had your eyes on the rod tip you'd have know it was there when it first hit.

While the downrigger rods are set loaded, there is still slack time when from the release till the load is back on the rod. That slack time is time to shake off hooks and not good. If your quick to the rod you can shorted that slack time even more. To be quick to the rod you'll have watched it pop.

As sets get deeper that slack time increases.

Using sliders:

That would be adding an additional line/lure to your downrigger without stacking.

With downrigger down and and rod loaded and set you add a leader via snapswivel to the line.

That slider will travel down to the belly(half way to ball and surface) in the downrigger rod.

When there is a strike at the slider it might release from ball or the rod tip might bounce.

Either way you have to get to the rod fast and take up line to connect to the fish.

I for sure use flashers and rotators w/fly and meat for deepwater late season Sept Lake Trout.

[Transporter]

ST, how do you feel about using braids in deeper water? I found they helped alot in telgraphing the movement to the rod tip when you get a small one that won't trip the release. Mono seemed to stretch so much in deeper water that the movement was often times absorbed before it got to the rod tip. I still like to use mono off the outriggers running shallow plugs for big fish, the stretch helps keep the hooks from tearing loose. I'm lucky enough to be able to fish where there is a ton of structure.

[Surface Tension]

Yes in deep water the braid transmits everything a lot better.

On top and shallow I run all mono.

Pulling hooks isn't that big of a concern as my rods take up a lot of the shock and with deep sets the fish are played out before getting to the back of the boat which seems like where most fish are lost.

Some of that is due to the increase angle when a fish is already on top then add the thrashing on the surface.

[tacklejunkie]

I would also add that for DR balls, I prefer the 12 lb balls to the 10 for L Superior fishing

[Borch]

Anyone use the Roemer liberator cheater releases. Looks like a good option locks on the mainline but will pop loose then the release hits the rod tip and slide down to your mainline lure.

[Surface Tension]

I tend not to use many sliders/cheaters and instead stack but I like being able to set the slider X amount of ft over letting the slider run down to the belly. This is a good option and compared to the price of gear its a cheap option to have.

On a rod stacked 15' above the bottom set with a flasher and spoon might not get a hook up but it is getting their attention. What happens when they break off the chase, they'll sink and drop back. What is there for them, your bottom set is and its run clean with a spoon. The stacked flasher spoon might not hook up as many as the bottom set but without it the bottom set might pulls blanks.

Now we don't always set a stacked rod like this. It is possible to be targeting deeper lake trout and at the same time target fish higher up in the water column if they are there.

So when setting the Roemer cheater 15'-20' above the bottom set your not doing it with the intention of spreading your presentations out. Of coarse your not going to set a flasher on a cheater and one more reason why I'd rather stack. The point is there are a lot of options to use

and your not just out there watching rod tips, as the gears are turning in your head.

[Borch]

I like the way you think Frank.

Maybe a bigger magnum spoon on the cheater line to get their attention and if they don't hit a standard spoon off the ball further back.

[End of the Line]

Transporter,

I would like to respectfully question why it is you think only small fish are caught on dodger or flashers and flies.

I truly believe this combo can not only be the most productive baits in the summer, but I'd bet 9 out of 10 times the largest fish come off of these baits on riggers, leadcore, copper, or 1 pound wireline balls.

I have had at least 7 fish that I know of that come off my boat and went to the taxidermy for wall hangers. Of those, 6 off flasher-flies, the other, early May on a stickbait in very shallow water.

As to losing fish on these combos, I kind of agree with you there. One thing that I will add to that though is this is the bait of choice for me most often in deep water fishing. Therefore more slack, stretch, and more time is spent gettting fish to the boat, which does have some affect on your catch rate as well.

[Transporter]

Not a problem, I mentioned they have taken smaller fish, not that they can't take a big fish, I just haven't taken many using flashers. But, I am somewhat biased as I personally don't like to or need to run a lot of extra hardware to produce fish, mind you, where I fish may be quite different than where you have had such success. The majority of my largest fish over the years, with over a dozen 30lbs+ have come on large spoons, j-plugs, kwikfish to name a few. I am lucky I guess, I don't know, but if I am hooking fish and having steady action I stay with what is working. I know people in the area that have tried flasher-fly combos, they caught fish, but not in the size and numbers taken on what are considered more traditional lures to the area. I'm relatively sure if everyone was fishng only flasher-fly combos around here at some point the numbers taken on them would increase. Same goes for copper, 1# lead and so forth, really haven't had the need to employ those tactics yet.

[End of the Line]

I agree with that. If your fishing Lake Superior north of the Two Harbors area, not much need for flasher flies most years. Duluth end of the lake, can be very good, especially late in summer, as well as Lake Michigan most anytime of the year.

[gortonsfish]

I recently purchased a Cannon downrigger (Uni Troll 10 Manual). Would have gone electric, but I know I won't get a chance to get out more then 2 or 3 times a year, and based on boat size. I'm curious as to what others have to say about weights... and what is your prefernce? I have read comments regarding 10 or 12 lb weights, but remember also reading an article from one that said at a certain speed he encountered an extensive vibration. Any advice greatly appreciated. Looking to hit Grindstone Lake and Lake Superior later this year for some Lake Trout.... though I wouldn't mind finding some walleye as well in Superior if I knew where abouts to try.

[tunrevir]

I prefer the 12# weights for the great lakes and even run some 15 pounders, just due to the currents you run into out on the great lakes. A 10# ball or even an 8 is fine for most inland applications and when curernt is less of a factor. The downrigger you have will be fine for the times you are using

One suggestion is to go out and rig with the down rigger before you get onto the big water. Try hooking up the ball, hooking the line on and lowering the ball with the rod you plan to use on the great lakes. First, do it in the daylight, and later, once you have that routine down, do it at night, and then go out when it is rough and do it all over again. The more you practice and get things down and a system that works for you, the more enjoyable it will be to get the riggers out and fish with them!

Tunrevir~

[DREZLER]

One thing I can tell you is that is sounds obvious but 10 and 12 pound weights are MUCH harder on equipment.

If you have alot of greenhorns on your boat you may want to be careful because one minute you've got a fish on, the horns start bringing in riggers, and all of a sudden you look over an the 12# ball is out of the water bobbing up and down trying it's best to rip your rigger off and into the drink!