Question for mnfishinguy

[dillon]

Judging by your replies, you seem to know what you are talking about so I thought I would pose this question to you? I am looking at buying a fixer upper for resale. It will not be my primary residence, so can I do any electrical work myself. All I want to do is change out some light fixtures maybe replace some older switches or recepticles?

[dillon]

Another question...how do I edit a post? For example, when I spell receptacle wrong.

[upnorth]

Dillion, If you look at the bottom of an already submitted post you will see an edit button, press that and it will allow you to edit and repost. This only works on your posts.

[WallEYES]

To answer your question A homeowner can do there own plumbing,and electrical as long as they own and actually occupied such residence. This is by state legislative statue(law). The other trade would be H.V.A.C. (Mechanical) that is not governed by state statue, but check with your cities ordiances, because our city req's you to be the owner/and occupy the residence to do youe own mechanical work.

[BobT]

To answer your question A homeowner can do there own plumbing,and electrical as long as they own and actually occupied such residence. This is by state legislative statue(law). The other trade would be H.V.A.C. (Mechanical) that is not governed by state statue, but check with your cities ordiances, because our city req's you to be the owner/and occupy the residence to do youe own mechanical work.

In addition to this MN law does require electrical work get inspected. This is a good thing to do because the inspector will find things that you may have missed leaving you in potential danger of fire.

[WallEYES]

A permit is required and inspections are performed before the covering of work.

[amateurfishing]

once you fill out and turn in your various applications to your city's planning office, they SHOULD give you all the necessary info or tell you where to find the necessary info or contacts to provide info to do it correctly & phone #'s of inspectors to call when ready to have it inspected/approved.

[JohnMickish]

As stated above, in order to do the electrical work yourself it has to be your PRIMARY residence, not a vacation/second/rental home, but the one you live in.

I know alot of people don't like the rules but they are what they are. Heck, I don't always like the rules I have to follow on the highway, but they are the rules.

[Macgyver55]

As stated above, in order to do the electrical work yourself it has to be your PRIMARY residence, not a vacation/second/rental home, but the one you live in.

I had no problem pulling a permit to wire my cabin a few years ago, has something changed?

[Dave]

I pulled a permit to wire my complete cabin as well. It's not my residence.

[frazwood]

I pulled a permit to wire my complete cabin as well. It's not my residence.

I found this text from a Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry HSOforum:

An owner is a natural person who physically performs electrical work on premises the person owns and actually occupies as a residence or owns and will occupy as a residence upon completion of construction.

I don't know if a secondary home/cabin counts as "occupies as a residence" or not. Certainly, I claim that I occupy my cabin as a residence on my taxes (I think the rule for taxes is that I spend the night at least 14 times a year -- don't quote me on that).

The other issue is whether or not the inspector will enforce this to the letter of the law or not (to use the analogy used above about driving, cops rarely give you a citation for driving 1 mph over the speed limit).

A final comment regarding pulling permits for DYI projects, in general. In my experience, the local permit inspectors (plumbing, framing, whatever) could not inspect any work until after the electrical work had been passed.

[Macgyver55]

I found this text from a Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry HSOforum:

An owner is a natural person who physically performs electrical work on premises the person owns and actually occupies as a residence or owns and will occupy as a residence upon completion of construction.

I don't know if a secondary home/cabin counts as "occupies as a residence" or not. Certainly, I claim that I occupy my cabin as a residence on my taxes (I think the rule for taxes is that I spend the night at least 14 times a year -- don't quote me on that).

The other issue is whether or not the inspector will enforce this to the letter of the law.....

If your quote is the actual wording they use then I think it boils down to just another case of how they "interpret" the law. Here is what I found when I searched the legal definition of "residence".

"Although the domicile and residence of a person are usually in the same place, and the two terms are frequently used as if they have the same meaning, they are not synonymous. A person can have two places of residence, such as one in the city and one in the country, but only one domicile. Residence means living in a particular locality, but domicile means living in that locality with the intent to make it a fixed and permanent home. Residence merely requires bodily presence as an inhabitant in a given place, whereas domicile requires bodily presence in that place and also an intention to make it one's permanent home.

[Tom7227]

I suspect that the out state code enforcement is significantly different than metro. First of all they don't have the volume and it would be about impossible for many places to staff or even contract out the various specialties. Secondly I doubt that they want to make it too much of a hassle for cabin owners since they pay a ton of taxes. Finally they also probably don't have arson inspectors so when a screw up causes a place to burn down there's no one there to figure it out.

[JohnMickish]

I don't know how long that wording has been on t the books, but I its been that way for as long as I can remember. As far as the permit for a cabin goes, I imagine they really want the money and the office people probably don't study the state statutes.

[CAMAN]

So what would the penalty be if someone changed out a light fixture, outlet, or switch in a place they did not live in? I know I have done it dozens of times for family members like my parents, grandma, aunt, etc. I guess I've never really thought about having to get a permit or inspection to replace fixtures since you aren't really changing the wiring.

[JohnMickish]

I am guessing here and it would have to be a pretty drastic example, but I think that if the person where licensed, then that license would be in jepardy along with a fine. For a non licensed person I am guessing it would be a larger fine.

For the state to actually spend the money go after someone would have to be a pretty drastic case, probably like a negligence and injury/death kind of thing.

Now that a person is aware of the law I can only imagine that would make the states case even easier.

[jerkbait]

I don't know how long that wording has been on t the books, but I its been that way for as long as I can remember. As far as the permit for a cabin goes, I imagine they really want the money and the office people probably don't study the state statutes.

But it is the state that is giving out the electrical permit. You would think they would know their own statutes. Right ?

[dillon]

Thanks for all of the replies. I contacted a couple of electricians to get estimates for the work.

[JohnMickish]

But it is the state that is giving out the electrical permit. You would think they would know their own statutes. Right ?

You get your permit from the LOCAL courthouse or other government agency. You do not have to go to St. Paul to get the permit. Some of the more remote counties have very slack building codes and inspection processes. I really doubt that the receptionist that is filling out the paperwork is fully aware of all the electrical, plumbing and building codes.

Again, I didn't write the codes and I don't enforce them, I just have to work with them.

[frazwood]

Some of the more remote counties have very slack building codes and inspection processes. I really doubt that the receptionist that is filling out the paperwork is fully aware of all the electrical, plumbing and building codes.

Let me verify this comment.

I recently contacted the city clerk, where my lake cabin is located, about getting a permit (and associated inspections) for turning part of my garage into a bunkhouse. I was explicitly told that they didn't issue permits and that I was completely on my own.

[LightningBG]

If you're just replacing light fixtures, just do it and be done with it. (just make sure you turn off the breaker first. )

[Macgyver55]

I recently contacted the city clerk, where my lake cabin is located, about getting a permit (and associated inspections) for turning part of my garage into a bunkhouse. I was explicitly told that they didn't issue permits and that I was completely on my own.

Where did they refer you to go for the necessary permits? No matter who does the work, they have to get the permit somewhere.

[frazwood]

So what would the penalty be if someone changed out a light fixture, outlet, or switch in a place they did not live in? I know I have done it dozens of times for family members like my parents, grandma, aunt, etc. I guess I've never really thought about having to get a permit or inspection to replace fixtures since you aren't really changing the wiring.

I could be completely off-base here, but I think that permits are needed only when you are messing with the actual circuits. You don't need a permit to change out a switch, receptacle, fixture, or other.

If you want to know for sure, then you can always call an electrical inspector and ask if a permit is needed. Technically, you could go even farther and claim that changing a light bulb (this could be defined as "electrical work") requires a permit.

[frazwood]

Where did they refer you to go for the necessary permits? No matter who does the work, they have to get the permit somewhere.

They referred me to myself. They said that I was on my own. I asked "are you sure?" and it was confirmed. The City had just done a remodel of a city building and they didn't have a permit to do it (I talked to the contractor).

I know, for example, that electrical permits are issued by the state (unless the city has their own inspectors, which isn't the case here, obviously), so I can always get one of those. I am guessing that I might be able to find someone from the county to issue me a remodeling permit (framing, plumbing, etc), but it looks like I have to figure out who they are (or they don't exist, in which case then I am truly on my own, as stated).

I will say that this attitude about permits explains many of the "curious" things we've found in this place. I am hoping that my local city inspectors will help me out if I have questions (they were helpful last time that I did a project and got a permit).

[cavalierowner]

I just wanted to add an FYI based on an experience I had that just because an electrician is licensed and the work is inspected doesn't mean the work meets code. About 20 years ago my parents bought a piece of land outside of Alexandria to build their retirement home. When the basement masonry was completed, they hired an electrician to bring underground service to the house, hang the panel and install a receptacle for construction. This was all inspected and approved by a state electrical inspector. Well I got up there and the first thing I saw was that the receptacle was not a GFI receptacle or protected by a GFI circuit breaker! Before we started any work I ran into town, bought a GFI receptacle and installed it. And yes, according to a licensed electrical engineer I worked with, a GFI was absolutely required. So even if you are hiring out the work, at least do a little research on codes so you can tell if something basic was missed.