Thoughts On 220's

[swamptiger]

As far as the coon thing goes, I watched a seminar put on by a guy at the trappers convention a year or two ago who strictly used dog proof traps. He is a longliner and catches high numbers of coon with dogproofs, so that's proof to me that it works. And probably makes more sense anyway in pheasant country. Don't remember his name..

[Trashguy]

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I think that might work for a percentage of the grouse hunters. The problem with your compromise/suggestion it does not benefit the non hunter. There are 1887 signatures as of right now on that petition that's out there. What percentage of those signatures do you think are hunters versus non hunters? Not to down play your compromise, but there are plenty of people with other interest that use this resource too, not just we hunters and trappers. Just thought I would through that out there again, because I think they may be the majority.

Don't believe that would be an issue at all in the north, because there aren't many folks out tramping around in the woods after Dec. 1st on a normal year. Don't really know about down south. Again, the northern area is completely different than the southern.

[mainbutter]

We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog.

We have a mutt that we got from a rescue, and over the past 2 years we've put hard work into making sure that he is REALLY good at heeling and recalling. I call him away from chasing squirrels at a dead run all the time, if you can't call your dog away from a motionless pile of meat, [PoorWordUsage], or other "dog-interesting" object, he should be on a leash. If your dog is out of eyesight, you should call him back to you. If he runs off all the time, work on heeling for ANY accompanied travel on foot.

It's not about the amount of money you have to put into a dog, but the amount of time and hard work.

[leech~~]

On my way to Ely ice fishing this weekend I seen three different sets of dogs running fields and wood edges a long way from any farm and not one person insight! Just as Trappers need to be responsible for their trap sets. Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals! I'm sure these dogs didn't know where the propriety lines were to know if they were on their own land without any traps set out there.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Dog owners need to be just as responsible for their animals!

Absolutely. Don't know about your area, but in my neck of the woods, we have a long-standing unwritten code of how we handle dogs who run wild.

[Trashguy]

Hey mainbutter, just curious, how long you been hunting? Ever hunted grouse, or just squirrels?

[swampman]

I see this as a dog hunter trapper conflict only, people have access to plenty of places to walk there dogs without fear of traps, county/city parks as just a couple examples, while they may pay taxes on the other public lands that does'nt give me the right to set traps in parks that I pay taxes on. I think there is a workable solution to this without caving to a media news story about a few isolated instances.

[mallardnwalleye]

I trapped before there was widespread use of Conibears. It isn't that difficult! That said I find it hard to believe that these hunting dogs are dying in 220's with there owner's nearby and that people can't get there dogs out of them. A 330, yes that is a dangerous trap. My grandfather actually trapped a theif in a barn once with one and both my brother and I had bruised dents on our ankle from getting too close to sets that we had on beaver slides. We didn't have all kinds of problems before with 220's, what has changed? Or is someone confusing a 220 for a 330? Are people letting there dogs roam unattended? I think these cases need to be examined further.

[jparrucci]

There is a big difference between a free roaming dog and a hunting dog quartering in front of you. A dog could easily find a trap a person cannot see. Education helps but it is not going to be the only solution for this issue. 220 can kill a dog instantly.

[sheepheadslayer]

If you would all do each other a favor and call your local CO and ask them how many dogs in trap case they have worked or seen. Spoke with a 23 year vet and he had one case of a 220 on a dogs nose. He took it off of the dog (which was a stray) and took it to the pound. Thats it 23 years and the only one.

[jparrucci]

Do us a favor and call all 6 dog owners who died this year due to traps.

[jparrucci]

Again just to be clear, any restrictions should only apply to public lands.

[swampman]

The truth of the matter is a hunter and his dog are at more risk driving to your hunting spot than actually engaging in the sport. You can make all the laws and legislation you want and bad things are still going to happen. Sorry. We can outlaw guns and people will still be shot,we can outlaw bodygrip traps and there will still be a dog somwhere die in one it is unfair and I am sorry. I have lost 3 dogs to cancer 1 to car and none to a trap. I contracted cancer 2 years ago not from any lifestlye habit but by a unlucky draw of the cards. Of all the scary thing in life the chance that my dog may come across a 220 trap set somewhere is one I don't lose any sleep over.

[Trashguy]

+1 jparrucci

and long as the subject of risk has come up again, why can't the person who sets that trap and kills someones dog be held responsible with a fine or what ever? If we dog owners are to take the so claimed small risk, why not that trapper also? I mean if its such a small risk, you wouldn't ever have to worry about paying restitution for that dog. Its never going to happen anyway, so why not? Probably because your answer is "you don't want to risk it"? If your other answer is you don't have to, because what you are doing is legal, well so am I when I'm out there with my dog doing our thing. We are not talking about stray dogs here either or private land, but dogs that are with their owners on public land.

[swampman]

I am with you guys on the private land part but thats not the way the guy wrote the bill up. I would personally have no problem with the restitution if that would make you happy it could even be fairly cheap every trapper throw in 5 dollars to a fund, 5 dollars times say 6000 trappers should make a good fund, problem with that is who is going to make a restitution value we both know thats not going to work. I try to get along with the hunters as most trappers do, I live in the pheasent range and don't set bodygrips on wma or wpa's I usually wait un till at least a hour after sun rise to go out and check my muskrat traps I can legally be out there at 5am but wait so I don't mess with the duck hunters to much and reduce the chance of getting shot.

If we have to go to shorter split seasons so we never conflict ok , everybody loses, hunters(I am one) are not the sole land owners of the public property either.

I am sure the anti's are all just loving this, playing right into there hands won't be long trappers and hunters will all be out there trying to catch something in a sack, in case you guys have'nt been paying attention for the last 30 yrs or so there is a whole lot of people afraid of our guns. I don't see this as just a 220 issue but something bigger.

[Trashguy]

Actually, swampman, restitution wouldn't make me happy. I was just using what I posted above as a comparison/analogy on the risk thing that is always being brought up. Enjoy the rest of your day, Trashguy

[9339za]

Actually the best ammo we can give the anti's is a dead dog. Cornish isn't doing us any favors either.

I'm hearing news that at least 25 dogs have been documented as dying in body grips in the past few years. That guy Jason at the DNR said they don't have a clue how many dogs are being killed because they don't keep track.

Laws are made for all of us and just because most trappers have never caught a dog and never will that doesn't mean we don't need to change the way we use body grips.

[FCspringer]

I see no need for change at all.

[9339za]

We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.

[Saw557]

So I offer up a solution of closing grouse season Dec 1 and opening trapping the same day and keeping the trapping laws the same as they are now and there is no discussion just more bickering about who is right or wrong thats not how this is going to be solved. I am not looking at this just from a trappers point of view I also run a couple of expensive mutts 30 plus days a year by the time December comes around the dogs and I both have had enough the antis are just loving this and looking for more its time to quit the [PoorWordUsage] and start talking about a solution it seems the guys against the trapping are a whole lot less open to a compromise

[Saw557]

We're only allowed 5 cats, 5 marten with 2 replaced by fisher, and 4 otter for a total of 14 animals. I'm still trying to figure out why any professional trapper needs to set two hundred 220's for weeks on end to catch 14 animals.

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver. [/quote

And you are allowed 5 birds a day 10 in possession so what are you doing in the woods in December....I just couldn't pass it up

[Ybone]

You can hunt grouse even though you shot your limit earlier as long as you eat some. So that should answer your question as to why they can legally hunt in December just like you can fish walleyes in December even though you may have caught a limit in June. Once consumed they no longer count toward your possession limit. I also wondered why set hundreds of traps for 14 animals and by the time the fisher/martin/bobcat season is open you should have your otter.

[swampman]

As far as the coon thing goes, I watched a seminar put on by a guy at the trappers convention a year or two ago who strictly used dog proof traps. He is a longliner and catches high numbers of coon with dogproofs, so that's proof to me that it works. And probably makes more sense anyway in pheasant country. Don't remember his name..

Probably Jim blakely

[Random guy]

Quote:

If you don't mind my asking other than otter what are you trapping with 220's in the water that you have to move the traps to dry land after freeze-up Jonny? They're too big for rats and mink and too small for beaver.

I use 220s for rats and 220s with bottom pan triggers for mink/otter on cross over runs. I pursue larger bog rats that are hard pressed to fit into a 110. With a old trigger modification trick I also tend to not catch as many kits or should a say the next years matures. It actually works great as a management tool. I have used 110s with very poor results, misses or poorly gripped adults and the kit catch goes way up. Plus the areas I have rats I have Otter running around as they are eating the rats. With 110 sets those are misses and with 220s they are catches. In today’s markets the more efficient and diverse your sets can be you are the better you will do.

If my rat catches drop below 30 a day I move my lines. Hope that can help put in perspective the harvest levels of the professional. It is not a hobby or something to pass time on the weekends. It is 70 hour a week job that pays my bills. And much of it is on request from land owners and other organizations that had a fit when I stopped trapping their area or move on. I actually get calls from development associations asking me to come in and trap the rats out of the boat canals and water front properties. Of course those are denied due to pets and safety.

For me this has very little to do with on land bait sets but water sets or water’s edge sets miles up rivers and bog flowages. That is where this is going to hit me.