Cold rolled for spear tines?

[Grubstake]

I seem to have the itch to build a spear.... just what I need, another project.

I am leaning towards a weight forward design with tines of 1/4" cold rolled, barbs built up with weld and shaped from there. I made a couple of trial versions of the barb and this seems to work ok.

My only concern would be that they were not hard enough. would I be better off with something else? Say 4140?

Just looking for some options.

[hydro]

Given an option, I would not use CRS for spear tines. If you have access to a steel distributor, try and find some high carbon round or octagon bar stock, 80-95 points should do it. Work it up but don't harden it, it would be tough enough as worked once you forge the points/barbs. Another option would be oil hardening drill rod that you can mail order from a catalog house like Enco or McMaster Carr. It's really the same as the 90 point carbon steel mentioned above. 4140 alloy would be pretty cool, but it would be a real bear to work with.

[Kraemer_Spears]

My opinion on cold rolled as it is very easy to work with but you will end up constantly straighting the tines as you use it for spearing and on the other end something like 4140 I would think would be tough to tie into the spear without having it crack at the welds if you ever hit a rock or something hard. I personally use oil tempered MB spring wire and if you ever make it through central MN I would gladly give you some to try. I ended up buying an entire 6,000 lb coil since no one would sell part coils.

Good luck.

[Grubstake]

Thanks guys, gives me something to think about anyway! Not often you get free advice from a master! Sometimes I really like the internet.

[Archerysniper]

Thanks guys, gives me something to think about anyway! Not often you get free advice from a master! Sometimes I really like the internet.

It's not so much the internet, it's this sight. If you have a question it normally get answered fast and with great info.

[Gordie]

It's not so much the internet, it's this sight. If you have a question it normally get answered fast and with great info.

DITTO MANY TIMES OVER

[Gordie]

My opinion on cold rolled as it is very easy to work with but you will end up constantly straighting the tines as you use it for spearing and on the other end something like 4140 I would think would be tough to tie into the spear without having it crack at the welds if you ever hit a rock or something hard. I personally use oil tempered MB spring wire and if you ever make it through central MN I would gladly give you some to try. I ended up buying an entire 6,000 lb coil since no one would sell part coils.

Good luck.

Welcome to the HSO family Kraemer_Spears

Hope to pay you a visit sometime myself and hope to see you at a Get -To- GATOR in the future

[MJ1657]

The spearing board is a great board without any conflict amongst us. Not the norm on these types of boards.

Welcome Kraemer. Hope to hear more from you.

[Kraemer_Spears]

Thanks for the welcome. I started out the same way just wanted to make my own spear and thinking of different ideas. Good luck with it.

[hydro]

Kraemer,

With 6000 lbs of wire, you must have well over a mile of the stuff. Ever thought of packaging up a kit to make a spear? There seem to be quite a few very capable people on this site who might want to give the blacksmithing thing a try. Do you heat treat the spear tines after fabricating them? I, for one, would like to see a picture of your finished product if you have one to post!

[Kraemer_Spears]

It comes out to about 6.8 miles of wire so at a couple of spears a year I think I will be covered on wire for a while. I have thought about putting parts together for people but since I can't seem to build them myself I know my odds of getting the parts made for other people. The wire is availble for anybody if they come and pick it up. One of the problems with the wire it is very temperature sensitive for bending. It gets very brittle if it is over heated. I do temper them after I finish them to take the brittleness out of the heated areas. Here is a picture of some of my spears.

[Grubstake]

WOW!!!!!!!

[hydro]

VERY nice work! It looks like the barbs are brazed in place. There used to be a shop class at St. Cloud Tech that made spears with that technique. How do you do the tempering process?

[Kraemer_Spears]

I weld the back side of the barb then use Brass or silver or even gold on the front of the barb and for the lettering. I hot blue my spears and since blueing doesn't affect nonferrous metals the pieces stand out from the blued piece. I put my spears in an oven to heat them to color for tempering.

[efgh]

Old blacksmiths used old fork tines, others used 1/4 or 3/16 in key stock.Most of the spears I have seen that were made of key stock were made like this. the out side tine no. 7, goes up one side of the spear, thru the head block and down the other out side, no.1, to form the out side tines, the next inside tine is no. 6 follows the same route up thu the head, down and is the no. 2 tine. 5 and 3 follow the same route. a wedge holds these tines in place. no. 4 is the middle tine. To make the out side tines you need a piece of key stock about 25 ins. long. Heat the key stock white hot about 1 1/2 in from the end, stand it on end and hit the end of the key stock with a hammer. This will mushroom the heated area to form the barb on the tine. Do the same to the other end. Making spears like this takes a lot of patience and a lot of measuring.

[Early Riser]

Good stuff! I really like high quality spears and stories of what goes into making them.

Since we are on the topic here are a few more pictures of well used Kraemer spears:

non blued 7-tine (canned venison in background - sorry I am not a photographer!):

blued and brass 7-tine/barb work:

non blued copper handled 9 tine after a busy morning when the carp were running:

[MJ1657]

Great looking spears.

[Gordie]

Great looking spears and I love the brass tips on those spears I used to do alot of brazing myself.

[fisherking01]

As always good advise, but, cold rolled steel will provide you with a very workable metal that if not abused will not need straightening on any sort of basis. you can have the highest quality hardened steel and treat it wrong and wreck it. fish are soft and no cold rolled steel will bend in penetration or proper removal. Throw them in the rocks and the best most rigid steel will give way! Your first experience in spear making will no doubt look different than your 100th! With that said, I have built many spears (25 or so a year), many out of cold rolled 1/4in. and 5/16 in in both stainless and standard. Now I'm in Alaska and am contemplating building here. have fun with your project!! good fishing, Brent

[BOUNCED]

With that said, I have built many spears (25 or so a year), many out of cold rolled 1/4in. and 5/16 in in both stainless and standard.

Do you have any pics? I'm always looking for a new spear

[fisherking01]

I posted pics on here off and on. I moved to Alaska in spring and don't have much left from last season. I gave many away last winter getting some young spearfishers started in the sport, gave some to fundraisers and such.. I get a lot more satisfaction out of promoting the sport than exploiting the resource for profit. It's all about friendships and real life experiences! The people here are a great accent to being helpful and promoting! keep up the helpful attitudes! Brent

[BehindtheHead]

i just have to say thank you kraemer and every one else for all the info.

i have been thinking about trying to build my own spear and the this info answered some of my questions.

kraemer if you dont mind me asking. do you turn your handles out of stainless shaft? must be more than one piece? my grandpa has turning equipment but i cant see turning a 5 foot shaft on it, maybe though, im not to experienced with it.

so then you have your shaft made and holes drilled for the tines, you just put your wire through the shaft and then shape your tines, then do the barb work?

im thinking i might get one done this winter. any info would be appreciated.

[hydro]

Most engine lathes will have a hole through the heastock so you can turn shafting longer than the bed. For tapers, some lathes will have a "taper attachment" or you can just set the compound and whittle the taper that way. Your grandfather should have some ideas on what will work.

[Kraemer_Spears]

Hydro is right headstocks will have a hole through them. The entire center section of my spear is actually made of 5 seperate pieces. The welds are just ground down and blended. I don"t use stainless the center is just 1018 that is polished. My spears need to be oiled or they will rust. For my actual job I use stainless every day the physical properties of mild steel are better than the stainless in my opinion so I don't use stainless. I do pass the wire for the tines through the center and bend them after they are attached to the spear.

[Orlip]

From visiting with Mr. Kraemer last fall at his shop I can say he knows his spears and enjoys sharing his knowledge. (I was the guy with the Brainerd spear you looked at.)I had his predecessor Mike Fabeck make me one (actually 3) of those spears and cant wait to stick the first fish with it.