Goodbye Jim Thome and Jason Kubel

[pikestabber]

This just in...

In a very characteristic move for this team, the Twins have officially traded Mauer, Morneau, Baker, Perkins, Kubel, Revere, Span, Valencia, and Thome (along with $500,000 cash) to the Astros for a pack of gum and a Single A prospect with a torn ulnar collateral ligament. Sources say the Astros also wanted Nishioka and Tolbert, but the Twins wouldn't budge on that. When asked about the move, Bill Smith said he didn't have time to comment because he also had one more trade to make--his 2009 Porsche for a rusty 1983 Geo Metro with significant smoke damage--and he didn't want to hit rush hour.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

or that waiver deals never get proper value in return which is exactly the same point you have.

Not just the waiver but all trades during the season and close to the deadline. You and others are blaming Smith for not getting a better deal I was wondering how you knew that to be the case. So no we don't have the same point.

I don't blame Smith for anything not even the Capps trade which turned out not to be a good trade because Capps went in the tank. But at the time we needed a pitching and didn't need 4 catchers.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thome going to a "contender" does not lessen the ring. Heck, he signed with Minnesota for the same reason! He's a bat for hire at this point and he will contribute to any team's run to the World Series. It's not like he's going to ride the pine, getting a ring on the coat tails of others. He'll be one of the reasons that they get there, otherwise they wouldn't trade for him.

[PierBridge]

I kind of agree with thaoneguy the last move to the National league with the Dodgers was a disaster and if he's picked up by the Phillies he'll be a pinch-hitter against righties is all. More than likely he won't effect things much if at all. I agree it's a cheap way to pick up a ring but we all would gladly take the chance to do it so it's tough to blame Thome if he does.

[B. Amish]

Not just the waiver but all trades during the season and close to the deadline. You and others are blaming Smith for not getting a better deal I was wondering how you knew that to be the case. So no we don't have the same point.

I don't blame Smith for anything not even the Capps trade which turned out not to be a good trade because Capps went in the tank. But at the time we needed a pitching and didn't need 4 catchers.

here's my view.

how do you get the most for something that you wish to sell?

you ask around and take the deal that is offering you the most. play the deals off each other to see if the offers increase. aka = regular trade deadline.

if you just go to one place. you either get what they offer or end up with nothing. aka = waiver trade.

they would've gotten more for young, kubel, and thome at the deadline because they could've chosen the teams that offered the most. i'm not saying they would've walked away with next year's cy young winner and a future league mvp, but they for sure would've gotten more than during waivers.

the sticking point is bill gambled that the twins were still in it at the deadline and opted to hold his ground with what he had rather than selling. now that we're completely out of it, he's chosen to sell for pennies on the dollar.

we were trailing 3 teams at the deadline and were 6-8 games back of detroit who has owned us for the last year and a half (much like how we have owned the white sox).

[Big Dave2]

I kind of agree with thaoneguy the last move to the National league with the Dodgers was a disaster and if he's picked up by the Phillies he'll be a pinch-hitter against righties is all. More than likely he won't effect things much if at all. I agree it's a cheap way to pick up a ring but we all would gladly take the chance to do it so it's tough to blame Thome if he does.

In reality, That's what he came here to be. We already had an every day DH in Kubel, a guy that should have only been a DH in Delmon Young, and a part time DH in Joe Mauer. Thome did not come here expecting to be the every day DH by any means.

[SkunkedAgain]

+1 Big Dave

[IamZombie]

Just heard both were claimed.

Now to wait and see by who and if a deal is reached.

[hunter76]

I am not opposed to letting Thome go. Give the guy a chance to get a ring. No one in baseball deserves one more than him. Best case scenerio is that he gets one this year and maybe we can resign him next year.

[B. Amish]

new rumor: liriano, slowey, perkins, and nathan went on waivers yesterday.

[Big Dave2]

ESPN report: Thome, Kubel claimed on trade waiversUpdated: August 24, 2011 - 1:16 PM

. A source has told ESPN that Twins outfielder Jason Kubel and designated hitter Jim Thome have been claimed on trade waivers, according to a report on ESPN.com.

The web site did not say which team made the claim.

If true, the Twins have 48 hours to work out a trade or pull the player from waivers. A team can also choose to let the player leave without compensation.

[Brian-Mn]

Waivers are a way of doing business in baseball. I can't think of one Twin I wouldn't put on waivers. You use waivers vs the trade deadline because..............if a player gets a whiff of you trying to deal him, but you can't, then you have a disgruntled player. On waivers you stick him out there, if you don't like the deal or the player doesn't want to go you can pull him back. No hard feelings.

Young is not a player to use for or against a trade / waiver argument. Nobody wants him, including Detroit. He will fill a void for them and hopefully he catches fire for a couple of weeks. Then they gave up a couple of maybes for a chance of him getting hot. Remember he cleared Chicago and Cleveland before Detroit got a chance. He was a #1 draft choice that the Rays and Twins both gave up on. You want Milton Bradley? I'm sure he's available with just a tad bit more baggage then Delmon.

[IamZombie]

So how does the process work?

Once someone is placed on waivers do teams in the division get first go, then the league, then the other league?

Or just Division, then up for grabs?

[thatoneguy]

In reality, That's what he came here to be. We already had an every day DH in Kubel, a guy that should have only been a DH in Delmon Young, and a part time DH in Joe Mauer. Thome did not come here expecting to be the every day DH by any means.

At the start of the season Gardy said he expected 250-300 at bats from Thome. We knew he wouldn't be an everyday player, but they clearly needed him for more then PH duty.

[thatoneguy]

So how does the process work?

Once someone is placed on waivers do teams in the division get first go, then the league, then the other league?

Or just Division, then up for grabs?

Reverse order by record, first in that team's league, then in the other league. I think.

[jwmiller33]

Reverse order by record, first in that team's league, then in the other league. I think.

That's correct. All the teams from the team's league are put into one long list and you put them in order by the W-L records, ranked 1 thru 14 (AL). Teams then put in their "claim" for the player who was put on waivers and the rights to the player go to the lowest ranked team (the team with the worst record). If no team in the player's league claims him, then the claiming team with the weakest record in the other league gets preference.

The waiver process was put in place so teams at the top of the division cannot unilaterally load their clubs for the stretch run. It is a system which favors the teams behind in the standings. Teams with lesser records have the first opportunity to improve themselves and can also block better teams from making deals.

Word on the street is the White Sox put in a claim for both Thome and Kubel. By doing this, they are "blocking" Detroit and Cleveland from getting both of these players, regardless of whether or not they actually work out a trade for both of these guys.

Another important note: Thome has a no trade clause that he would have to waive in order for this whole trade to go through

EDIT: changes made after some help from good ol Wikipedia

[B. Amish]

That's somewhat correct. It's the same way waivers work in Fantasy Baseball/Football (if any of you are familiar with that). However, you don't seperate the two leagues. All the teams from both leagues are put into one long list and you put them in order by the W-L records, ranked 1 thru 30. Teams then put in their "claim" for the player who was put on waivers and the rights to the player go to the lowest ranked team (the team with the worst record).

wrong. american league teams have first chance at players in the american league. if no team in the american league claimed thome or kubel, then it goes by record in the NL.

if the yankees were the only american league team to claim thome or kubel, then they get the claim, even if every single NL team claimed them.

[jwmiller33]

if the yankees were the only american league team to claim thome or kubel, then they get the claim, even if every single NL team claimed them.

The Yankees weren't the only team to put in a claim for these players, and I'm pretty sure they didn't even put in a claim. The White Sox claimed both Thome and Kubel and now the clubs have 48 hours from the claim to work out a deal. If no trade is worked out (or if Thome doesn't waive his no trade clause) then we can pull them back to our team for the rest of the year or send them to the claiming teams for no compensation.

[B. Amish]

i was being hypothetical trying to explain the waiver process. but thanks anyways.

[jwmiller33]

ahh I see.. I misread, my bad

[B. Amish]

what stinks is there's a good chance we'll get squat for thome, because if he wants to go to the phillies, the twins will have to release him so he can sign there.

[jwmiller33]

Not going to lie, that would be pretty sweet if Thome signed with the Phillies! I am rooting for Philly this post season anyways. I really would like to see Cliff Lee and Halladay in the World Series. It's not too often you see 3 Cy Young candidates on the same pitching staff (Lee, Doc and Hamels)

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox put in the claims for Thome and Kubel simply because they didn't want to see either of those guys in a Tigers or Indians jersey down the stretch. From a business perspective, you can't really blame them for doing so. It would be nice to work out a trade and get a prospect or two back tho

[Hoyt4]

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox put in the claims for Thome and Kubel simply because they didn't want to see either of those guys in a Tigers or Indians jersey down the stretch. From a business perspective, you can't really blame them for doing so. It would be nice to work out a trade and get a prospect or two back tho

[jwmiller33]

I just heard the Sox only claimed Kubel. The Indians were the ones who put in the claim for Thome

[B. Amish]

thome traded to indians