Sr., Kyle, and Jr.

[eagle_3464]

This could get long but I’ll try to keep it a short as possible.

With so much comparison and feuding going on between Sr., Kyle, and Jr. I thought I’d give my take on the subject.

Let’s start with Sr., arguably one of the greatest NASCAR drivers of all time. He had a presence on the track that left other drivers with rattled nerves when they saw his car coming in their mirror. For this reason he was known as “The Intimidator”. Did Sr. put the bumper to other cars? You bet he did, just like many other drivers do to make a pass when they have a clearly faster car being held up by a slower. Sr. used his bumper with style and control knowing just when to use it to make the pass. Rarely did you ever see his car out of control and side slapping another car or driving them into the fence. Nor did you see a blatant attempt to intentionally wrech someone. On many occasions drivers lost control without the help of Sr. other than the intimidation and driving their mirror to make their car wide. I recall one race when NASCAR penalized Sr. 1 lap for aggressive driving and he still came back to win. In victory lane he made it a point to show that there was not a mark on his car from the alleged contact. If Sr. had a winning car he did what he had to do to get it there. If he had a 5th place car he most often settled for a 5th. Sr. was not a good qualifier so there was always plenty of opportunity for intimidation. In the end, we lost a highly skilled, respected, and influential driver.

Now let’s compare Kyle. This kid in my opinion has exceptional talent but lacks maturity. There will likely be consequences coming his way for a long time to come with his checkers or wreckers attitude. With this attitude come an out of control driving style. I don’t know that there is another current driver that can wheel a car like Kyle but quite often he is just out of control or trying to take too much to soon. We see week in and week out Kyle making unbelievable moves and getting the car to stick. Well, the cars aren’t going to stick with moves like that every time. The result is an out of control car driving in to deep and through a competitor. Again, this style will have consequences until Kyle matures, changes his ways and gains respect. Kyle’s lack of maturity is also shown by his aggression toward others. If he feels someone runs him out of room he is going to deliberately return the favor. Kyle is certainly entertaining to watch. You just know something is going to happen and almost predictable. I really like his aggressive driving style, just needs more control. Once Kyle matures I can see him being much like Sr. He has fast cars and the talent to set people up to make moves without being out of control. Will he continue to win as often as he does now once he matures? Likely not, but he will gain tons of respect, fans, and most importantly the big prize at the end.

Now moving onto Jr. Does he have the talent of his late father or Kyle? In my opinion, absolutely not but I do believe his talent is in the upper 1/3 of current drivers. Jr’s driving style in my opinion is not nearly aggressive enough. Even with a faster car, rarely will he use a bumper to get by a slower car holding him up. Most often trying a non-preferred lane to make the pass until his tires are used up. Additionally, Jr. is too quick to pull over and let another car past rather than making them work for it. There is no doubt that Hendrick provides great equipment so there should be no excuses for not running up front. Of course many things can factor into ones performance. One of the most important being driver/crew chief chemistry. I believe Jr. finally has that but I still think his talent and/or driving style falls just short of a winning driver. Case in point, where is Mark Martin this year? Is it because of age, or the lack of chemistry? Aside from Sr., Jr. was once the king of drafting. He partly brought on his on demise by openly preaching about side drafting after a victory. Very next plate race, the entire field learned the art of the side draft. I do believe Jr.’s talent could have been better than what it is but for three reasons has stalled out or encountered a setback. #1 being the loss of his father. Say you are an avid young hunter just learning the ropes and lost your father to a hunting accident while hunting side by side, how many of you would have the same enthusiasm for hunting? If Sr.’s presence, knowledge and influence were still here today this would be an entirely different story. #2 being previous wrecks. Jr. once suffered a concussion that lingered for the better part of a season. More importantly was the fiery sports car wreck that could have easily taken his life. Though he has denied any affects it might have on his driving I’m sure there are “what if” thoughts. And #3 I believe to be the Kyle factor. Early in Jr.’s Hendrick career Kyle roughed him up on the track numerous times as if to send a message to Hendrick. These were routinely followed up with Kyle’s trash talk against Jr. In my opinion these events got into Jr.’s head causing him to question his own ability and lose confidence in his driving abilities.

OK, have at it boys.

[kbb]

OK, have at it Harvey.

I fixed it for you.

[harvey lee]

I totally agree with the OP's post.

rbb, you need to grow up and not get so childish about Kyle and stop being the king of the trolls.

I stated yesterday you were like kyle and you asked me to enlighten you.

Now I will, you need to grow up just like kyle.

Very immature to say the least.

Someone must have really took a you know what in your wheaties.

Just because I do not like kyle due to his rough driving, you now want to simply try and start an issue in most every thread about Jr.

Get a life.

[bottom-bouncer]

I totally agree with the OP's post.

rbb, you need to grow up and not get so childish about Kyle and stop being the king of the trolls.

I stated yesterday you were like kyle and you asked me to enlighten you.

Now I will, you need to grow up just like kyle.

Very immature to say the least.

Someone must have really took a you know what in your wheaties.

Just because I do not like kyle due to his rough driving, you now want to simply try and start an issue in most every thread about Jr.

Get a life.

well said tom

[kbb]

I totally agree with the OP's post.

rbb, you need to grow up and not get so childish about Kyle and stop being the king of the trolls.

I stated yesterday you were like kyle and you asked me to enlighten you.

Now I will, you need to grow up just like kyle.

Very immature to say the least.

Someone must have really took a you know what in your wheaties.

Just because I do not like kyle due to his rough driving, you now want to simply try and start an issue in most every thread about Jr.

Get a life.

LOL, you're doing your best to try and beat down a KB fan!!

[HOF#13]

Good post. I agree with almost all of it. I don't put much into Schrub getting into Jr's head theory, but everything else you wrote has merit IMO.

A good objective post.

kbb....really dude? Come on.

[&JAG]

I agree with everything except him being in the top 1/3 of drivers... I say lets give all the drivers his HMS equipment and see where Jr. finishes. We all know the team makes a difference too and I don't think he is lacking there either. I can say that he would be middle at best. Just because he has had a good start to this season doesn't make him a great driver seriously (the top 1/3 are great drivers in NASCAR). I do love all the excuses for the last three seasons also I just remember all the talk about how horrible J Gordon was doing the last three years also... Where did he finish in points? Not the 20's. Besides I can name three drivers at HMS that are better than Jr. and that's only at the same company he works for! Now I don't wanna hear about how great his season is and look at the point standings. Let's be real and look at the equipment and past results, this season has a ways to go yet.

[harvey lee]

I read today online that if he makes the Chase, of the tracks that are in the chase expect for Louden that they have not run yet this season that Jr has the best average finish for the chase tracks.

Some feel he has a legit chance at the championship.

I also read another article where they rank Jr in the 84% percentile for drivers. These are not my numbers.

[HOF#13]

I agree with everything except him being in the top 1/3 of drivers... I say lets give all the drivers his HMS equipment and see where Jr. finishes. We all know the team makes a difference too and I don't think he is lacking there either. I can say that he would be middle at best. Just because he has had a good start to this season doesn't make him a great driver seriously (the top 1/3 are great drivers in NASCAR). I do love all the excuses for the last three seasons also I just remember all the talk about how horrible J Gordon was doing the last three years also... Where did he finish in points? Not the 20's. Besides I can name three drivers at HMS that are better than Jr. and that's only at the same company he works for! Now I don't wanna hear about how great his season is and look at the point standings. Let's be real and look at the equipment and past results, this season has a ways to go yet.

Using your theory of Jr. is only having a good season because he is driving for Hendrick...let's look at the stats then. Only 1 of Jr's wins came in a Hendrick car. All of Jeff Gordon's 84 and Jimmie Johnson's 54 wins came in Hendrick cars. So using your theory then, Jeff Gordon would only have 25 wins if he drove for another team? If you are going to apply the Hendrick principal to Jr., then you surely have to apply it to Gordon and JJ also. Does that sound crazy? Absolutely, but that is the framework you are using when being critical of Jr. I think Gordon and JJ are great drivers, and will not belittle their accomplishments because they drive for Hendrick. You have not done that either, but yet you do for Jr???

Jr. may only be in the top 15 of driver's in NASCAR, but remember we are talking the 43 BEST stock car driver's in the world. Honestly there are only 4 or 5 drivers to me that truly stand out above the others in terms of driving ability, and then the rest of the list is fairly close in talent IMO.

[&JAG]

When he was at DEI the cars they ran were in the mix, I mean Waltrip won (Plate races)... As far as JJ and J Gordon I think anywhere they would go they would win that's why it's so surprising that Jr. hasn't put up better numbers thus far.

Tom, I don't know who came up with the 84 or 86 percentile but, they are big Jr. fans that's all I'm saying. I would say that's about where J Gordon is at these days and he has two wins with more to come.

I understand what they are saying about the chase but, he's like lebron in that he doesn't have the killer instinct needed to seal the deal. The numbers don't lie but, it's a long ways to go. Just don't see him even being a factor. If I'm wrong about all this I will gladly post a I'm wrong topic...

[harvey lee]

Jag, I made a mistake. He is in the 75% percentile and needs 4 wins to be in the 84% percentile. That's still not to darn bad even if he has not won for a stretch. That's far higher than many drivers out there.

Here is the article. The article is on whether Jr will make the Hall of Fame. I know, he would never make it if his name was not Earnhardt. Thought I would state that before others jumped onboard.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from...n=nascar-wp1977

[Wanderer]

kbb = kyle busch bromance?

[&JAG]

Cool, thanks for the article! I used to be a huge Jr. fan from the Busch ranks up to the DEI days. The reason I left the nation was about his driving style and nothing else. Kind of got tired of seeing him always running the high line and slapping the wall, since there was no room for error. Now this season he is hugging the bottom a lot and his results are up which is great. He's a good guy from what I've seen (met him at Cedar Lake Speedway and Fontana). No hate here... Just critical of all drivers even JG and Bowyer

[gregg52]

i'll say this one more time the 48 aint done yet!!!!!!!!!..lol

7 in row !!!! never to be beaten!!!!

just my thought... 'i'm not a jj fan

[&JAG]

Not this year

[harvey lee]

Never count ol 5 time out. He turns it on come the Chase.

[Sifty]

Keep in mind old 5 time ran most of the year last year in "test" mode. They where trying differnet set ups.

I would guess in the next three weeks you will see him win a race and also start the drive towards the top.

Sifty