Zone 2 deer management

[heat checker]

In light of all the controversy regarding deer management in zone three, I would like to start a thread applying to a specific zone. If we post only in thread for the zone we hunt, I think it will give us a greater understanding of the goals we seek. I hope others will start a thread in their specific zones. Feel free to read the threads from the other zones, but try to refrain from posting?

I'll start-

In the permit(or should I say,NON permit) areas I hunt, it has been bucks only for last 2 years, because of low population. The area I bowhunt, had a small lottery last year. Nice bucks are pretty hard to come by, with true trophys pretty much non existent. The bucks only will only ad a negative effect to that. As far as deer management, bucks only is the way to bring population back up. But, if the population gets back to where it can be, what are your thoughts as far as herd management? I would agree to APR's or buck lottery, but I personally would like to see the season moved out of the rut. Would solve alot of the issues surrounding APR's in my opinion. Lets hear yours.

[Jameson]

I hunt in many areas of the state, but in my 'home' area in zone 2 it has been Lottery for many years. The DNR estimates are 1-10 deer per square mile during the Spring in the area. It appears one fawn is the norm for does in the area, and many of the fawns do not survive till Fall. It is an agricultural area with very few acres (comparably) in any kind of habitat that would conceal a deer once the crops are out of the fields. What woodlots don't have a hunter in them opening weekend, will during the week when hunters return from their cabins and hunt closer to home. The DNR issues about 75-300 doe permits per year in this area. The area is 30 minutes outside the metro. We see does, does with one fawn, and 1.5 year old bucks regularly. The racks on most of the bucks in this area is very unimpressive. Most 2.5 year old bucks will only sport just over 6 points with a small basket rack inside the ears. Comparable to average 1.5 year old bucks from other parts of the state I hunt.

I am for only allowing as many buck permits as they do doe permits per season. It would put a serious crimp in my hunting during the 80% of years I didn't draw a tag, but the herd would be in much better shape.

[candiru]

I am now in zone 2, used to be zone 4. Our hunting has gone to heck since the all-season license started. The area I hunt in has been a fairly restrictive lottery since. We need to get the herd back. I don't know if that is going to happen with 25 days worth of gun hunting and the abuses of party-tagging. We seem to have had our good old days. I am told to embrace change. We had change and it has sucked!!!

I have practiced letting young bucks walk voluntarily when the situation permits. I am very much against mandating it. If you move the season back in these agricultural areas it may make things worse because the corn will be picked avery year. With a buck lottery you would be telling landowners they can't even hunt their own land in some years. I know enough people that are unemployed, underemployed, limited time to hunt, not as physically able, or hunt small parcels of marginal land. I do not want to push some kind of APR on them. I want to enjoy my hunt. I don't want to be worried about whether a buck has good enough antlers or that doe has 4" spikes on it. With limited time to hunt and limited land I don't want to have to worry about those things. Horns just don't mean that much to me.

When I turn on the TV, I don't like what hunting has become. It is all about the horns and the money. I do not want to see that come to MN. I don't want to see people forced off of the land they have hunted because it is now leased to an outfitter. I don't want to see everything become an antler contest. Mine is bigger than yours. I need big bucks and I need them now. Like other things I am worried about the creep. It starts with a little regulation just in this one area and then it grows and grows, like a cancer.

[Crow Hunter]

My 40 acres in zone 2 has gone from intensive to managed. I hunted 9 days of rifle season and 8 days of muzzleloader season last year, only saw 5 deer. I let a fork horn and a six point walk and took a doe. There was plenty of shooting on the neighboring land that has food plots.. it is getting to be who has the most money gets the deer. I am rather ambivalent on APR, I practice it on my own, but I don't really want it mandated. I have heard where people scolded a kid for shooting a buck that does'nt meet their "standards".. totally wrong-headed thinking.A lot of the tv hunting shows present people in a stand over a feeder in a high fenced area and shooting a big buck, no different than going out to the henhouse and getting a bird for dinner in my opinion.. it is not reality and those shows aren't helping. I have never been a fan of cross-tagging, deer hunting is my favorite thing in the world and a personal thing. Others have different traditions and I respect that.. As for moving the rifle season later, that would move muzzleloader season later, I might not even be able to get back into my land due to deep snow some years. Also, if no rifle hunting during the rut, no bow hunting either right? That would be the only fair way of doing it. Just my .02.

[lichen fox]

The area in zone 2 that I hunt has also gone from intensive to managed but it has had zero effect on how many deer we harvest on average per hunter...even when it was 5 deer we averaged just under 2 per hunter in our group...same now. I am actually pretty happy with the opportunity's we have in our area both for mature bucks and anterless deer. I don't see any advantage in APR's as the only reason they would incorporate them would be to put more pressure on anterless deer in an attempt to lower the overall deer density...I also don't see the "move out of the rut" reasoning as "just about" everyone talks about a "later" season...if you're going to move away from the rut with the genetics argument or the "too many opportunity's at younger dumb buck" argument...you'd have to move the season way later!...if the only goal is more big bucks, heck move the regular firearms season to after the the muzzleloader season! How about mid-december or so...that way you'd also be keeping the bulk of the pressure off the regular and second rut. I think it's fine in the area we hunt just the way they have it now.

[gurkster]

Candiru - I couldn't agree with you more - well put!!

[hockeybc69]

Going from zone 4 to zone 2 sure seems to be a factor for us not seeing a lot of deer.

At least with zone 4 there were 2 weekends to hunt and unless you got the multi zone buck license/all season you had to hunt either weekend. Not both.

Now its zone 2 and 9 straight days of hunting.

I am not going to say we have no deer, but we sure dont see many deer the last several years.

[Rippinlip]

I am and have pretty much always hunted Zone 4, now 2.

When they went to the 9 day season it seemed to push deer out and it took them a very long time to return, when it was a 2-4 day thing, deer came back sooner.

As far as being regulated with an APR or Lottery, I am against it.

I have a great family that some have just taken up the sport and I do not want our government telling them "NO".

My wife just started hunting a few years back, (blessed I am) and she needs to harvest a deer (any) 1st.

Also daughter and her fiance' are starting this year also.

I will agree to the TV being an issue, my wife keeps telling me how she wants to shoot a huge buck! Sees a 5 minute clip on TV where Tiffany, Nicole or Vicki stab a biggen and she thinks we should all be able to do that.

Not reality folks.

Myself I harvest to my standards, I have been harvesting deer for many years and am into being a self managed deer harvester, I let plenty of little fellows walk and have even let nice does walk if they only have 1 fawn. My own reasons.

That is what i will be passing down to those who hunt with me. I really like the taste of venison on the grill.

[paceman]

My zone was intensive for a few years and holy cow did folks wack deer. I know lots of folks that shot 5 deer every year. Well then the deer numbers dropped so they dropped it to lottery and then last year it went back up to managed. The numbers are way down but they are on the upswing again. I hunt primarily agg land and usually see deer every day. I have not seen any huge bucks but have shot a couple in the 140-150 range. I will take 1 doe for the freezer and then wait for a big buck. The neighboring woods are full of hunters and deer cross back and forth all the time. I let 3 125-130's go by last year that the neighbors took. I am not too upset as they are nice deer. I just hope when the 160 comes through then they are not in there stands. On our land I limit the number of hunters and we all pass on the little guys. I know someday I will shoot a giant. I will gladly watch and wait for it.

[BLACKJACK]

I grew up hunting the old zone 4, lived and hunted for ten years in zone 3, now back to hunting in the old zone 4/current zone 2.

Didn't like the attitude of too many hunters in zone 3, at that time the first season was bucks only, and the attitude was 'real deer hunters only hunt bucks'. I can see how that attitude would evolve into 'got have the DNR legislate big bucks for me'.

The zones that I hunt are either lottery (277) or bucks only (283), so once you shoot one deer you're done. The idea of even thinking of implementing APR's in a lottery zone is offensive to me, that would mean that if you didn't draw a doe permit, and didn't see a big enough APR buck, you couldn't shoot a deer that year. To me thats unfair just because a some hunters feel the only good buck is a big antlered buck. Try APR's in the zone with a lot of deer where shooting does is an option but keep APR's out of lottery zones!!

The trophy hunters hate to hear this, but if thats what your standard is, be a real hunter and go hunt down that trophy, don't force your standards on all hunters!!! And don't say there aren't trophys around, I see them week after week after week in the Outdoor News.

If you live in a Managed or Intensive zone, appreciate the fact that you can shoot multiple deer, if you're in a lottery zone, its one and done. Consequently, its hard for me to get motivated for the early bow season because I don't want to end my season that early, I love hunting in late October early November.

I don't like the idea of moving the gun season later, I just think that you're going to run into bad weather too many years, which will cause too many hunters to stay home. We're trying to recruit hunters, not drive them away.

One other thought. I'd like to see some revamping of the zones. My main zone, 277 is big black farmland in the south but trees and swamps in the northern part of the zone, when they average out the deer population, we end up in a lottery zone, but I see a lot of deer in the northern part of the zone.

[creepworm]

I think that when they changed the season to 9 straight days it pushed the deer to be nocturnal. The number of deer seen during shooting hours has went down dramatically since then. Then a quick drive around the section after dark and see 15+ deer.

I also think they should move the season back a week or two. Not for any reason besides it always seems to be the best weekend for duck hunting.

[smnduck]

Near mankato if you do not own or have access to river bottom land then you hunt what is left. Basicaly nothing unless you want to walk up deer out of a cattail slough. The season and regulations as they are allow the "largest amount of hunters a chance" to harvest a deer. There are plenty of trophey's, they are nocturnal after age 3 so new horn porn hunters are frustrated that it is not like they see on TV at a fenced in ranch. The #1 problem with deer hunting is the TV shows that skew people's perception of what a trophey is.

[psepuncher]

Like I've said in other threads...i folllow Marrett's research.

The one thing about getting a link is as silly as

explaining simple things like what is 1+1....it is what it is.

There's been survey's done for many variables to come up with conclusive

facts. The latest trends don't even envolve hunters much anymore.

{Well to a post data initiative anyway} Ear tags that are invisible, arial survey's, distant and spotlighting deer densities are more prevailant.

Just like sconnie, MN is going with the new trends in research.

Volunteers will be critical," said Chris Jacques, the DNR deer researcher who will supervise a ground-breaking deer research project now in its initial stages of implementation.

"The field effort alone is too big for any one group to implement," he said. "With the help of many volunteers, we'll be capturing hundreds, if not thousands, of deer during the next four years."

http://outdoornews.com/wisconsin/news/article_cf85f732-9505-11df-8ae5-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

And here you'll see MN deer have been tracked with gps since 198?...

oh boy.

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/basic/resources/mech_pdfs/267trackingdeermigration.pdf

[Spike76]

Anyone who hunts in Minnesota, should reply on these so they don't have more antler restrictions. Every deer is a trophy, and if you want a big deer, hunt for one. Don't make others go without because you want a bigger deer. This is just like slot limits for northerns, work harder and you will catch bigger fish. Don't make some go without so it will be easier to catch bigger ones.

[Musky Buck]

I won't disagree with you spike76 but here's the issue where we hunt. In the past 15 years or so the bucks that herd up in the summer, they are getting smaller and fewer in number. There, at least every other year, isn't a buck in the bunch any of us would pull the trigger on, as fall wears on they travel and many or most of them get dusted. Sure, a decent buck could move into our area also which rarely seems to happen, we drive around the areas sections and aren't seeing anything close to what it used to look like, there was generally much optimism as each farm had a shooter or 2, see we live on farms where the meat issue doesn't exist. My dad's last good buck came in 1990 and he hasn't shot 1 since, has seen 3 shootables in 20 years so he quit now. I'm sorry but not every deer is a trophy to a 65 year old deer hunter, we live among them, we see them nearly daily, a fawn is a trophy, sorry but no it's not, it's a deer, a small deer, a deer that barely has survival skills yet. Not saying APR is the way to go but you tell us another way to manage for large bucks that works so our bachelor herd in August is balanced and actually has a large buck in it.

[Bear55]

Anyone who hunts in Minnesota, should reply on these so they don't have more antler restrictions. Every deer is a trophy, and if you want a big deer, hunt for one. Don't make others go without because you want a bigger deer. This is just like slot limits for northerns, work harder and you will catch bigger fish. Don't make some go without so it will be easier to catch bigger ones.

Spike I can see your point and partially agree with you but the shoot everything and keep everything mentality is not healthy either. A little conservation can go a long way. Heck I don't even care if someone shoots a small buck I let go, I just hope it's a young hunter who is learning the rope or even a guy who might only have one weekend to hunt. Not someone who shoots as many bucks as tags he can find and has been doing it that way forever.

[Musky Buck]

Bingo Bear, that's where many of us land in our way of thinking, it's too bad many have been there and done that in regards to harvesting many bucks year after year after year and they never really grow out of it, has nothing or little to do with the meat, it's more about telling anyone who asks yea we were 7 for 11 or we filled out and then deer hunting is basically forgotten until next November. I know I can't dictate how others hunt or what they shoot I get that but it has impacted the area(s) I hunt and the bachelor herds I see now year to year, about half the optimism going into season as there used to be and our trail-cams are proof there simply is way fewer mature bucks around, but times change.

[Outdoor Authority]

My personal thoughts on this subject is that every hunter has his own idea of what a shooter deer is. Along with this we need to keep in mind what a healthy deer herd is and the population density in area. Then through in the DNRs goals, to manage a species for the best interest of stake holders (hunters). This all summed together needs to be implemented and given a fair test.

I think every hunter should be allowed to shoot any but and I also think that every hunter should have quality deer. Its coming to a simple solution in a complex matrix. Let's limit 1.5 year old deer and open game on the rest. It's just my two since but I can't see anything ever being done that will leave both sides of the fence happy

[creepworm]

Musky Buck, there certainly are people that have that reason for shooting as many deer as they can, I do not believe that is the driving factor for most groups. Our group likes eating venison, also, the owner of the land does not care to fix fence everyday, therefore we shoot small bucks along with most other deer we see. We shoot them not to brag, but for some good tasting meat and to hopefully help the guy out that lets us hunt.

On a side note, I find it funny how you are on the duck hunting forum complaining there are no ducks to shoot and your dad quit duck hunting and on the deer hunting forum complaining there are no deer to shoot and your dad is thinking about quitting deer hunting. Either you are stuck with some pretty poor properties to hunt, or you expect hunting to be very easy.