Deer Idea

[HunterLee]

Well first off this post is more than likely going to make someone mad. I feel MN needs to change there thoughts on deer hunting.

For the sake of arguements, I fit into the meat hunter/ trophy hunter. I love to eat deer, but I also like to shoot nice deer. I am thankfully in a 2 deer zone so I hunt mature bucks for a while then take a doe when I want to. Then back to bucks. That way I get what I am after.

There is no reason MN can't manage for number's as thats what they are after, but they could also manage quality just as easy. I know that big deer are not under every bush or around every tree.

But why can't there be a middle ground of decent numbers with some age class of deer?

MN has lots of potential for big deer, I know this first hand as I have shot several nice deer, miss some also, and know people who have shot them.

This year in my area has been an ok season. I haven't seen alot of deer, but I have had good encounters with quality deer- 135 and up, or shooters in my case. Two big 8's both over 135in, one double drop-tine with great potential, decent 9 pt and two not sure if it was the same deer or not but pushing 160's.

Also several very nice ones on camera that i never saw in person, but are supposedly dead.

But the bad thing is I hardly saw any small bucks. Which as we know are next years nice ones.

I have hunted ND and SD for deer, and they know whats going on. They set goals on how many they want/need to kill and issue those tags. Not everyone gets a tag, but thats life.

So with that in mind why can't MN change and manage deer the right way. We have the deer, genetics, and even people that want it done. This is my idea on how it should be done.

1. No party hunting.

2. Buck lottery- i will give up a year of bucks if it means more and bigger next year.

3. Set limits and goals for each zone. X amount of dead does and Y amount of dead bucks. Controls both quality and numbers- not that hard.

4. Put slug guns back where they belong. Open farm country- I am in one of the zones where we were slugs and now rifle. It has wrecked hunting, we used to have nice deer, but now they are far fewer.

5. Go back to the 2 and 4 day seasons. The DNR wants to lessen pressure and expand opportunity well after our area went to a straight 9 days its tough to get on land now because everyone hunts both weekends.

6. Get some good old fashion sticky tags. These one we have now are a joke- people tie them on and use them several times, I personally think that was the biggest joke ever.

7. I am for everyone having a right to hunt all three seasons, but it gets abused plain and simple. Have drawings for at the very least rifle and muzzleloader. Our deer don't need that much pressure for basically a month.

ND residents are lucky to draw a muzzleloader tag every 3-4 years.

8. Not really another point/idea, but if the DNR would go with a drawing and only giving so many tags per zone. We could get rid of a one buck limit or deer limits in general. Also by lowering the buck harvest, there is no need for antler restrictions. That way if you want a buck and get a tag shoot what you want.

I feel a game management plan similiar to what i have laid out will make most people happy.

Doe hunters could apply for doe tags and buck hunters could apply for buck tags, or if there are leftover doe tags they could always be sold on a first come first serve basis.

This would also help spead out pressure on private and land letting some of us who rely on state or getting permission on private a little easier to obtain. It would greatly benefit the deer also by managing numbers and quality.

Granted some people may not get a tag every year, or at least not hunt in the zone they usually do, but it would spead hunters out, and kill the deer that are needed. But would make MN a much better deer state in both numbers and quality. We can have it all but not with our current deer model.

Sorry for the rant, but feel free to comment or critize me plan/idea.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Stop watching shows where they judge a deer by the inches of antlers and your season will be much better.

[creepworm]

Hunter Lee,

I disagree with every single one of your points except #5. I think a shorter season is a good idea. I am not at all willing to not hunt for a season so there are more trophies for others to shoot and I don't think I am the only one. I do not understand your thinking on the drawing for a tag every year. They give away two tags per hunter in a managed zone because with hunter success rates, they believe this is how many deer can be taken. I hate to say it as I absolutely hate the idea of APR's, but I would welcome them with open arms before I would accept your ideas.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Stop watching shows where they judge a deer by the inches of antlers and your season will be much better.

Nice! Well said!

[Jack Peterson]

Stop watching shows where they judge a deer by the inches of antlers and your season will be much better.

+1

Even though I encourage letting the little bucks walk in some situations, if people need venison, they need venison. A lot of guys can't afford to pass up every deer except the big ones.

[R Buker]

The problem with what you propose means people would end up having some of the liberal limits/seasons/methods, etc that they love taken away. While what you propose makes sense for what you are trying to achieve, people are generally greedy and not willing to give up something they already have for the good of the resource.

Another thing you didn't mention is to move the season out of the rut. Most years the rut is going strong on opening day and more big bucks are taken because of this than most other reasons including scouting and good hunting skills.

I would actually be for many of the things you suggest. I think Minnesota needs to try to better balance the idea of trophy vs. numbers. From what I understand, we are one of a few states in the area that allows anyone and everyone to go shoot a buck if we want. I know I see a lot more big bucks when I'm in South Dakota than I do when hunting in Minnesota.

[hockeybc69]

No party hunting. I agree.

Antler point restrictions is what I want.

Sorry for everyone that needs to fill a freezer, but I find it hard to believe there are that many people out there that truly NEED to fill a freezer. And for anyone that might NEED to fill a freezer, I would like to suggest they take a look at what it costs to deer hunt when its all said and done. Its not like its free meat.

The other thing I really love about APR, is that we wont have as many hacks lobbing lead at every deer they see running the woods. They would actually have to identify their target, assess the legality, and thus would put people in a position where they have better quality shots at the deer. Blasting at deer running half way across a section or shooting at deer going mach 2 through the woods would be lessened because people would be forced to identify the target before letting loose.

Otherwise I disagree with all your other suggestions.

[schmoe147]

I also would love to see no party hunting. I also would like to see where the person whos tag is on the deer must be present at all times, it would eliminate cheaters. I've talked to a lot of people that agree with that. Theres way to many groups out there that buy tags for there wifes and they dont even hunt and with the phone and on-line registration it makes it really easy to do. Lets go back to registering them at a big game station and making the worker look at the deer. YOU SHOOT IT YOU TAG IT. Otherwise I think they are doing a decent job.

[CustomRodFan]

6. Get some good old fashion sticky tags. These one we have now are a joke- people tie them on and use them several times, I personally think that was the biggest joke ever.

This new registration call in, click in, stop in is BAD BUSINESS. Now, before you all go reaching for the reply give this some thought....

Some folks will never register the deer no matter what the opportunity to do so is...

With a mandate in person registration, the honest folks are kept honest. Now with the rules being as they are, more deer mortality will never hit Lous desk. This, folks, will only skew deer data well into the beyond repair category. Granted, it will take years, but mark my words, the day is coming when even the DNR will have no idea how many deer are in the woods. There is no system of checks and balances and this new variable is not a good one for deer statistics into the future. Lou???? What say you?????

[BRULEDRIFTER]

And for anyone that might NEED to fill a freezer, I would like to suggest they take a look at what it costs to deer hunt when its all said and done. Its not like its free meat.

This is a weak argument. For myself, I paid less then $200 for my two trips to deer camp, my licenses, groceries, etc, and I harvested 2 nice does and my freezer is more than stocked for the year.

Not sure how much beef I could buy with that money, but regardless, I now have a freezer full of healthy, free range, organic, quality meat to sustain myself and a lifetime of great memories; instead of a bunch of beef that was more than likely raised in a nasty environment, injected with a bunch of nasty hormones and potentially butchered in an unsanitary environment.

Not everyone has to buy the latest and greatest gear that all the TV personalities swear is a necessity to get out in the woods.

[hockeybc69]

So how many pounds of meat did you actually get off those 2 does?

50 lbs of each deer roughly?

So you spent $2 a lb for your investment as an estimate. You can buy hamburger for $2 a lb if money for food is scarce.

My point is more that I hear so many arguments about how much the meat is needed, but in the end, there is plenty of food out there that wont cost what a deer costs to harvest.

Surely some people are able to do it very cheaply(hunting on the land they live and walking out the door to shoot a deer in a day), but for most that argue they need the meat, its a big farse in my eyes.

[Jameson]

Re:

1) no need to ban party hunting with lottery tags. Tags are issued for how many deer that are to be killed. If a father or mother wishes to have their children fill their tag for them they should be able to. This would lessen the effect on each hunter of not automatically getting a tag.

2) Agreed we should have a buck lottery, especially where we have a doe lottery. Your reasoning for it is terrible in my opinion. It's not all about more and bigger bucks, their are other benefits to it.

3) agreed.

4) I have no experience to comment on this one.

5) I have seen the opposite, so I have the opposite view point.

6) Makes no difference. Those that poach will continue to find a way.

7) No need to have a drawing for seasons and a drawing for bucks. One or the other would suffice.

8) I fully support the 1 buck per hunter per year limit.

Start judging your deer by age and weight, not score, and you'll be talking about the numbers that count.

[nonteepical]

i'm pro QDMA and i don't agree with most of what you propose for one, you can't even compare the dakota's deer management to minnesota's, different habitat, less deer and even less hunters, not to mention the deer you claim you saw in minnesota would be a dream even in iowa. i do agree on protecting young bucks.

[flipper]

I am not a QDMA guy at all but I could handle putting an end to party hunting. It is really abused in my area and statewide I suspect. I am happy to shoot my own deer and do not need to shoot anyone elses.

[Gordie]

This is a weak argument. For myself, I paid less then $200 for my two trips to deer camp, my licenses, groceries, etc, and I harvested 2 nice does and my freezer is more than stocked for the year.

Not sure how much beef I could buy with that money, but regardless, I now have a freezer full of healthy, free range, organic, quality meat to sustain myself and a lifetime of great memories; instead of a bunch of beef that was more than likely raised in a nasty environment, injected with a bunch of nasty hormones and potentially butchered in an unsanitary environment.

Not everyone has to buy the latest and greatest gear that all the TV personalities swear is a necessity to get out in the woods.

+1

I for one know that my family would eat vennison over beef so I am a meat hunter and if a rack goes with it I'm, happy just as my dad was and grandfather was. hunting was for food back in the day now its for the rack. thats the sad truth

[BRULEDRIFTER]

So how many pounds of meat did you actually get off those 2 does?

50 lbs of each deer roughly?

So you spent $2 a lb for your investment as an estimate. You can buy hamburger for $2 a lb if money for food is scarce.

My point is more that I hear so many arguments about how much the meat is needed, but in the end, there is plenty of food out there that wont cost what a deer costs to harvest.

Surely some people are able to do it very cheaply(hunting on the land they live and walking out the door to shoot a deer in a day), but for most that argue they need the meat, its a big farse in my eyes.

Okay, so going with these numbers, I'm breaking even...... I'll take it! Can't put a price on the good times, anticipation and spending time with family! Not to mention the higher quality meat then the beef they sell us in our grocery stores. Imagine what venison would go for at the grocery store if it were sold, I think I'm coming out very much ahead. You cannot even come close to comparing the quality of venison vs the trash they sell us at the grocery store.

[R Buker]

"This is a weak argument. For myself, I paid less then $200 for my two trips to deer camp, my licenses, groceries, etc, and I harvested 2 nice does and my freezer is more than stocked for the year."

Wow... If you honestly did those two weekends in under two hundred bucks, you are more than frugal. I live at home and hunt out of my back door. Here's what I spent.

Just about fifty bucks for licenses. One regular tag and one management tag... Not mentioning another nearly $50 for archery license.. I needed a new pair of gloves so off to Fleet farm. $18.00 later for the gloves and another ten bucks for some hand warmers because I didn't know if it would be cool or warm out when we were hunting. I shoot a 7mm Remington Ultra mag and needed some ammo. A box of that was $60.00 and while I have some left, it will be gone by the time I get done on the range. Oh, and I got a bag of candy bars to nibble on while on the stand. That was $3.00. Beef Jerky was $6.00.

I didn't count any of my regular food because I figure I'd have had to eat anyway. And, I didn't have more then tweny bucks in gas from my trip to Fleet farm and from misc running I did around the neighborhood for hunting.

Now, let's add in my Wife's costs.... Nearly $50 in licesnses. New hat and gloves this year, $30.00. Ammo $18.00. Batteries for her flashlight, $5.00. Seasonings for the sausage we need to make... $7.00.

The two of us shot 3 deer this year. We love the venison and love the outdoors so it's a win-win situation but, as a way to fill the freezer, it's not very economical. Our approximately 100 pounds of meat cost us about $2.00 per poound. Not expensive but not cheap. And that's hunting out my back door and getting three deer. We don't always do that well!

[schmoe147]

I am not a QDMA guy at all but I could handle putting an end to party hunting. It is really abused in my area and statewide I suspect. I am happy to shoot my own deer and do not need to shoot anyone elses.

Cant agree more. GET RID OF PARTY HUNTING. Like I said you shoot it you tag it. Would love to see them eliminate the phone and on-line regisration also, Who ever tag is on the deer should be doing the transporting of that deer also. Seems they are making it alot easier for the poachers.

[nonteepical]

this is gonna be a ten pager! i can feel it!

then eat your tag for a couple years and add those in to the cost of your deer, don't forget the cost of your rifle,atv,trailer,camper,law abiding clothing,up north girlfriend ect. ect.

[schmoe147]

Lets keep it on the topic, Not MEAT HUNTER vs. ANTLER HUNTER

[hockeybc69]

The arguments around what was orginally posted will go every way you want it to go, or not want it to go.

So get ready for a 10 pager.

elwood,

You are dead on with this comment:

Quote:

hunting was for food back in the day

Yep, it WAS. It isnt any more. Times are a changin'.

[Gordie]

You guys talk of the money your spending on the stuff that you love to do. Hunting yea it cost money to hunt and to put the deer meat in your freezer. Its not about the money is it? for me I love to eat venni but More I love being outdoors with family and yes there are different ways to spend out doors time with the family but deer hunting bonding for my sons and I. I get just as excited to see a doe as I do a buck guess If I lose that feeling Its time to buy beef.

I'm as duck hunter as well and they tell me there are no ducks in minnesota either but I still go out duck hunting

[hockeybc69]

100000% agree Elwood!!!! You and I are on the same page exactly.

My point in my posts is the people that claim they deer hunt to fill the freezer for necessity. You can feed your family for much cheaper than going out to shoot a fawn or yearling and put a few pounds of meat in the freezer.

[HunterLee]

Wow i really got things worked up for a sunday night.

R Buker- the reason I didn't feel a need to move the season- is with less bucks being taken as in only allowing so many buck tags that should keep most safe.

Don't get me wrong i would fully support moving it back.

You are also right- i seen more quality deer in ND or SD in one short season as I do all season here.

For those who feel i judge my season by inches thats not true at all. Its more about having more mature deer, and that usually in return is larger antlers.

I bowhunted over 20+ nights and about 5-6 mornings. Most deer I saw in one sit was about 25, but that was a one night thing early when there was a lone standing bean field. Otherwise I averaged roughly 2-5 a night, which is fine, but prior years that would of been terrible.

One other thing- if you are a meat hunter and wanted to hunt would you get the doe tag, or still apply for the buck tag?

Thats what i don't understand is why people who hunt for the meat shoot small bucks when most of the time a doe is standing right there because of our current season. I see it all the time and most of those people just throw the antlers away anyway.

[HunterLee]

Once again this is not a meat/antler thing. This is a balace of numbers and mature deer, and I would say its fairly safe to say that everyone would like to see more deer and if they were big bucks that would be okay to.