Cutting ATV trails on public land

[nofishfisherman]

I posted this on the ATV forum as well but thought I'd post it here to get some hunters feedback as well.

So I'm not an ATV rider but I came across an extensive ATV trail built on public/dnr land this weekend while deer hunting.

I'm curious as to what the legal implications are in this situation. I know clearing trees larger than 4" in diamater is illegal but what about build an ATV trail, i saw some larger trees cut down to make the trail but mainly they cut they trail around the trees as much as possible. Its an old trail that is well worn with just very short trampled vegetation growing on it.

The trail is atleast a mile long, I'm sure its longer but I didn't walk to the end. Its also dotted with permanet tree stands which I know are illegal.

I'm tempted to turn the guy in but I am curious if anyone has experience with this and can tell me what the legal implications are. How hard is it to prove it was this particular land owner. I am 100% sure it was him but will the law think the same way I do? Also this guy is a real piece of work and is almost impossible to deal with. Everytime you talk to him its borderline harrasment.

Just want to get some opinions if possible.

[Jameson]

Inform the CO, and let them do their work. Offer up any assistance you can to the CO.

What kind of public land is it? Permanent stands are not illegal on State Forests.

[motley man]

This was done on state land behind my property and I turned it over to DNR. They looked into it but with no way to prove who built it nothing was done. So I called in every time I saw or heard someone out there. They have finally posted this area. These are the folks that screw it up for everyone. Ask DNR if you can take down the stands.

[bikeoutback]

Permanent stands are not illegal on State Forests.

Grey area if you ask me. I was always under the impression that the stands themselves are not illegal but building them is illegal. Looking at the regulations is where I believe it's a grey area, page 112 under State Forests section:

"The use of portable tree stands is recommended, especially those

which can be secured without driving nails into trees. Nails are

a safety hazard for woodcutters and harm the forest. Personal

property must be removed from State Forest lands. It is illegal to

destroy state property, including the cutting of trees for shooting

lanes. Littering and erecting permanent buildings are prohibited.

• Any permanent unoccupied stand or blind on public land is public

and not the property of the person who constructed the stand."

Interpret as you will it basically says don't build anything permanent but if it's there it's free for anybody to use.

I'd just call the CO and let them deal with it, also mention the attitude of the person towards anybody else in the area. If it truly is state forest then it's public use and they have no right to claim it even if they did build it.

[Getanet]

Grey area if you ask me.

Nope, it's not a grey area. I hunt State Forest land and there has been a lot of confusion over this one. I emailed the DNR about a week before the rifle season and got this response:

"Yes, permanent stands are allowed in State Forests, as long as they are not elaborate. They cannot have walls or a roof. The most they could have would be railings."

So as long as you're not making an enclosed structure they're allowed.

Don't have the foggiest idea about cutting ATV trails on public land, but I would be shocked if that were legal.

[nofishfisherman]

Well either way his stands would be illegal. 20-25 feet tall, 4 walls, roof, door, not shocked if they had cable tv and running water.

I sent the matter to the local CO and was informed that he'll look into it. The ATV trails and stands are only 2 of the violations I counted. Baiting, shooting after hours, riding ATV during restricted hours, and hunter harassment are a few others. The CO is aware of them all.

[Pinusbanksiana]

A little bending of the rules can be tolerated to some extent. But that group sounds like they need some counseling. We need to police our own in this day and age.

[nofishfisherman]

I'll be a little disappointed if nothing comes of it. I can see bending the rules a little but this is out of control.

[vitalshot5]

Are not state forest land and state owned land different? as far as 4 wheeler trails go, i was told from dnr as long as no trees over 4 inches in diameter where not removed and was 100 feet off a public property line, you can make atv trails as long as you'd like. One question I have is the atv hours, did they not remove specific hours of use this year? I know they had talked about it.

[RiverRunner]

[quote name='Getanet"Yes' date=' permanent stands are allowed in State Forests, as long as they are not elaborate. They cannot have walls or a roof. The most they could have would be railings."

[/quote']

This isn't 100 percent true. I know for a fact that Crow Wing County does not allow permanent stands on State Forest land in the County. I think other countys have said this as well.

[Pinusbanksiana]

The deal with Crow Wing County land is this. It is state owned land but managed by the county. All county land state wide is like this. This land was acquired by the state from tax forfeiture. They have the right to say how it is managed. Crow Wing and Cass do not allow permanent stands.

[motley man]

Page 19 of ATV< OHV rules say's no trail can be made on state forest land without permission from the state.

[Acemac]

were is this trail sounds like a good grouse walk

[bikeoutback]

Ha ha, I find it funny they ask you to use portables and even recommend not using one's that require nails as the trouble it causes for loggers and such but most permanents would be nailed to the tree. Must be alright as the loggers can see those still out there and know there is nails then?

No need to build any permanents any more. All of the state forests I've been too come readily supplied with anywhere from 12-30 already erected permanent stands and it does say first come first serve basis

[Riverratpete]

If I had my way I'd outlaw all permanent stands on all public land in the state and continue to allow them on private land of course. #1 reason, permanent stands imply ownership over public property. Started hunting from a portable a few years back and hunting has been much better..Gotta laugh at some of the Mcmansions people build in the forest..just my 2 cents.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I kick the steps off every permanent stand I see on Federal land where they are illegal. In some areas, every basswood clump of 4 trees has an old stand on it. Think they should be illegal on all public lands. And those fish houses on stilts should be gone too

[nonteepical]

maybe we should go back to the way it used to be. my uncle who is 85, told me back in the day it was illegal to even be in a tree while hunting, it was'nt fair chase, you had to hunt from the ground.

[NaturesRespect]

well if you had footage of him lumberjacking trees and such then maybe that could do something other than that i dont think anything will happen to him... is the public land allow ATV's? were we hunt back then ATV's were allowed and believe me it does little harm to the land as long as my generations of hunters rode only on the road that was made there for ATV's things stayed the same its still the same there now nothing have changed but they have banned ATV's there now since a while back b4 i started hunting there my dad said one year they went they saw ppl going into the woods and decided to do some mudding with those big gian mudding trucks, the outcome was lots of woods and trails and roads were destroyed and ever since that they banned the use of ATV's on the state forest we hunt on. sucks to see someone ruined it for us.

[Getanet]

They've banned ATVs on the State Forest we hunt too, and it really has changed the way we hunt. I sure wish they would at least let us run back into the woods after shooting hours to retrieve deer on ATVs.

We go in 2-3 miles, and pushing a deer out, even with a cart, takes a lot of time and effort. Some of the older guys in our group won't be able to do it for too many more years.

[reinhard1]

i agree. there has to be some reason applied here to retrieve deer. when i was younger the idea of dragging out a deer never bothered me. i'm still in fair shape but the day will come when the 4 wheeler will come more and more needed. i dont see a problem with it as long as it is done responsibly and for that purpose only. good luck.

[motley man]

I need my ATV for pulling deer out as I can't drag them anymore. And don't tamper with stands unless you are going to tear them down. Someone could get hurt using them if steps are messed with. No matter what your thought's are don't hurt someone in the process. As said above, if they are operated right and the forest not treated like a race track everything is fine. But when people go out and tear up the forest, we will lose our right to use them out there. We all need to educate the riders of what is right and wrong. So if you see someone tearing up on a wheeler let them know about losing our rights to ride them because of that kind of riding on public land.

[MuleShack]

I can't speak to much of this other stuff, but the only way to bust these violators is to photo or video them in the act.

A few years ago a guy would always drive his four wheeler, bobcat or tractor on the edge of his property to deliberately harrass the deer hunters next door. He would also shoot over the hunters to scare them as well as the deer.

We got sick of it so we went in with a video cam and sat in the weeds filming this moron while the other guy was out visible to him and he went thru his harrassment ritual and I got it all on tape. It had close ups of his face so identity was not in question.

We gave the tape to the CO and charges were filed on the video alone and we didn't need to testify or anything.

1 less moron out there now.

[Riverratpete]

I have been contemplating buying an ATV recently for the very reasons you state, getting older, etc etc. Heres the rub though, I go out into the public land and just get po'd by the behavior, manners, lack of respect and damage done by the ATV's. I understand that its a small minority (generally young men with a few grown men who haven't grown up) doing the majority of the damage but I don't want to be part of the problem...I'd rather be part of the solution. As for the permanent stands currently in the woods, ban the use of them like they did in Crow Wing county, you get busted using one, you get fined. period