Dog attacked by Wolves during Grouse hunting

[FCspringer]

I believe I saw it as an 09 article. I hope I am "not" off topic, I think it is about dogs being attacked by wolves. There is a real neat article on this subject on the Northland News HSOforum from KBJR News as well. About things going on in Ely MN recently, if you google MN wolf attacks. They also show a very interesting video. Seems they are having some real problems in Ely. Check out the video listed from April 2010. What is real sad is the young woman in Anchorage Alaska malled to death not long ago.

Sure would be a bummer running into this while hunting.

[cbrooks]

The easiest way to manage wolves is to have a open hunting season on them. The wolves would learn to stay away from people. The DNR would have a good idea of the exact numbers out there. If the numbers drop too much then close the season.

[FCspringer]

Correction, "near" Anchorage Alaska.

[JayinMN]

Opening a season on wolves will teach them to stay away from humans as much as deer season has taught deer to fear humans. I just got home and I have deer standing in my yard looking at me take my groceries in. I saw many more on the side of the highway fearless of cars while driving back. Shouldn't they have had the fear of man instilled in them by the 3rd weekend of deer season? Now if a wolf walks along a highway or stops and look at me it is suddenly a threat, that wolf has lost its fear of humans. People have unrealistic expectations when it comes to wildlife, especially wolves. We apply human reasoning and emotions to them and animals just don;t work that way. We have become part of the wolves environment and they have adapt to our presence just as deer have.

My dog was attacked by wolves on Oct 31st. I posted about it on the photography forum. Fear mongering was not my goal and I don't think it was the original poster in this threads goal either. It seems some are trying to take it in that direction. I do not hate wolves or am anti-wolf because two tried to kill my dog nor am I opposed to regulating them through hunting or trapping. It is just their nature to defend their territory from other canines unfortunately dogs are competition and food for wolves. Just as it is the deers nature to jump my orchard fence and destroy my apples trees, its a wolves nature to kill a dog or other wolf intruding in its territory. They are now part of the landscape and they are always going to be whether we like it or not. People come into the country or wilderness and assume they can let their dogs loose with no worries. Wildlife does not respect property lines and cannot read no trespassing signs. My dogs are only out when I am home and I am outside with them. It has always been that way. For short potty breaks I stand in the window and watch them till they come back in if I don't go out with them. When I go places they are either in the house or in their kennel. Yes this can cause some inconveniences for me but its the reality of living in the country and part of responsible pet/dog ownership. If its not wolves after dogs, it going to be coyotes, vehicles, deer hunters, traps, and a whole bunch of other things that can kill them. I like my dogs and want to keep them around as long as possible. However, I can honestly say if my dogs wandered out back and were killed I would not blame the wolves anymore then I would blame the driver of the car that hit them if they were on the highway. The only person to blame would be me for letting them out of my sight. I see turning hounds loose at night in wolf country equivalent to turning a chicken loose in the middle of a field and expecting hawks, fox, coyotes and everything else not to eat it. Common sense should dictate and tell you not too do it if you value that animal. Hounds and far ranging bird dogs in the forest are going to to be especially vulnerable. Its going to be hard for some to except it but their are going to have to be a little more responsible because the fact is wolves are not going any where. Even if they are removed from the endangered species list and there is a season, its not going to change the nature of a wolf. They will awlays kill dogs if given the chance.

Once they are removed it will give state and property owners more options to protect livestock and pets from wolves. Look up the wolf management plan on the dnr's HSOforum if you want a better idea what will happen in the 5 years after they are delisted.

Okay now as a example of how bad wolf attacks can be reported and don't believe everything you read. This is how my incident was written and reported in the newspaper. I left out the CO name because this is how the report came to him from the dispatcher.

Quote:

He took care of a call of four wolves in the Hibbing station that are becoming very bold. While out grouse hunting the wolves attacked a lab dog and the owner had to fire four shots in the air and charge the wolves to get them to leave. It is believed these same wolves entered his yard earlier in attempt to get chickens.

There were two wolves, not four and the chickens had nothing to do with anything. All I said about chickens was that when I was shutting my coop door after work a wolf came into the yard after my other dog. That happened a few weeks earlier at around midnight.

I got a good chuckle out of it.

[Ufatz]

Hey Springer: Could you nail down the "woman mauled to death near Anchorage" thing for me a bit? Date? Source of your information. Alaska is my old stompin' ground and I'd like to check it out because I missed it somehow. In the meantime I'll try my sources too. Thanks.

[cbrooks]

JayinMn, I hope your dig is doing OK. Fortunate for me there isn't a wolf population where I live. It kind of puts things into perspective. What would I do if it was my dog. I don't think I would be as accepting as you are. I really beleive that a hunting season for wolves would be a good idea but I'm not an expert in this in anyway. Maybe have a season till it reaches a certain number of wolves that are harvested and then close it. Anyhow, I hope your dog makes a full recovery and you don't have anymore problems with wolves.

[brittman]

I guess we can say the one population that the MN DNR has managed to successfully increase is the wolf population which continues to run at DOUBLE the original state goal of 1500 animals.

The is absolutely no reason why MN cannot have a controlled wolf season.

[Ufatz]

Follow up to Springer. Found the incident. Local coroner said wolves. Have not been able to contact my wolf professionals yet to get their opinion on what happened. There HAS been a confirmed report of fatal wolf attack in NE Canada (Nova Scotia I think) and that may have been by a cross-bred pair or two of animals.

I'd like to find my wolf guys back home and hear their conclusions about the case you cite.

[walleye101]

Excellent post JayinMN. Exactly the type of rational thought and discussion needed with a topic that seems to generate considerable emotion. Hope your post generates equally thoughtful responses. I have some in mind that I will try to get back to later.

[brittman]

Coyotes kill more pets than wolves. Jay is right, it does take responsible owners to protect their animals from harms way. Coyotes take small dogs and cats right in the metro.

By bringing the MN wolf population to 1500 animals the amount of confrontations should be minimized since the there simply less wolves and the areas they occupied would less likely in close proximetry to man.

Sustainable hunting (not to be confused with hunt to extinction) could allow MN to control the population and generate revenue rather than pay people to kill them (although some USDA trappers would still be needed). Canada and Alaska allow hunting. Much wolf hunting in Ontario is done January - March providing residents, nonresidents, guides and business with bot recreation and opportunity to generate income.

The year after mother nature throws a severe winter at MN and the northern deer population plumments will be followed by a year of many, many wolf complaints and confrontations. The wolves will be desperate. Disease and starvation may follow and mother nature will take care of the wolf population her way.

[JayinMN]

Quote:

Sustainable hunting (not to be confused with hunt to extinction) could allow MN to control the population and generate revenue rather than pay people. Canada and Alaska allow hunting. Most wolf hunting in Ontario is done January - March providing residents, nontresidents, guides and business with bot recreation and opportunity to generate income.

That is exactly what I personally would like to see. If the public's perception was changed and the wolf was viewed as a respected game species there would be more tolerance for it.

Quote:

By bringing the MN wolf population to 1500 animals the amount of confrontations should be minimized since the there simply less wolves and the areas they occupied would less likely in close proximity to man.

I agree. When wolves disperse they cannot find new territory where there are established packs. They will be killed or driven off by the existing wolves. After all a wolves worse enemy is another wolf pack. At this point in time in Northern MN all the favored wolf real estate is taken up by packs so dispersing wolves are being pushed closer to man to find new territories. More wolves is going to mean more human/wolf conflict especially when they start moving south.

The wolves in the areas I frequent are suffering from mange. I have not seen a healthy looking wolf since last winter. This guy has more hair then a lot I have seen this summer.

[brittman]

Mange is a terrible way for any animal to die and visible proof the wolf is reaching its carrying capacity in MN.

In ND, trapping is a fraction of what it once was. Unfortunately coyotes, fox and coon populations often experience massive die offs from rabies, distemper and mange rather than through a viable, sustainable harvest.

PETA believes they won when infact the animals suffer much, much more ... In the end they are truly not wild animal lovers just simply hunting / trapping haters.

If/when the deer population plummets, the wolf population must follow and since starvation is a slow process - more animals will be impacted and lost then if the population was smaller and managed.

[walleye101]

Good points and great discussion.

I would like to go back and provide some perspective on the hound incident you mentioned.

"I see turning hounds loose at night in wolf country equivalent to turning a chicken loose in the middle of a field and expecting hawks, fox, coyotes and everything else not to eat it. Common sense should dictate and tell you not too do it if you value that animal. Hounds and far ranging bird dogs in the forest are going to to be especially vulnerable."

For clarification, it is not like these guys decided to take their hounds into the middle of the Superior National Forest for a coon hunt. This attack occurred in the Foston Area about an hour West of Bemidji. It probably was wolf country in the 1800's but you could say that about most of the United States. Geographically it may have been wolf range but ecologically it has little resemblance to the county wolves previously inhabited.

Foston is on the edge of the Red River Valley, currently more farm country than woods. Old men born there have lived their entire lives without having to deal with wolves. Raccoon probably became established about the same time as agriculture and have been far more common than wolves for the last 50-100 years. I'm sure from their perspective they did not go to hunt in wolf county, wolf country came to them.

Running hounds for coon (or other game) is not for everyone, but to those afflicted it becomes a way of life. It is not like you wake up one day and say, well boys the wolves are here now, time to sell the hounds and take up golf.

[FCspringer]

Wally 101 your right about that. I got out of hounds years ago but did it for several years as well.I was born in to it. Like you describe back then it was a way of life, many folks had a hound or two. I was in a night hunt sponsored by Purina, it was a two night Purina point hunt. I can't remember the town, but any way you are out with a cast of 4 dogs with there handlers and a guide/judge. Hounds are for the most part fearless and tough bastards. We had my dog treed, and a couple on trail. In the 5 minute waiting limit you need to leave the dog treed before going in to score, All heck broke loose, not sure if it was yotes or a couple wolves, but 4 hardcore hounds had there rear ends handed to them and got ran out of the woods. Mine was last cause he was treed and they don't leave a tree. They were tore up a bit but made it. I would guess yotes because of no deaths to the dogs. But I refused to go back to the area again. To the ? asked about the Alaska girl she was jogging, I read.

[caseymcq]

I guess we can say the one population that the MN DNR has managed to successfully increase is the wolf population which continues to run at DOUBLE the original state goal of 1500 animals. ...

[walleye101]

From their perspective that area may not have been wolf country. Looking further beyond them, though, the area was likely inhabited by wolves so in a broader perspective they came to wolf country.

I think I mentioned that; "It probably was wolf country in the 1800's but you could say that about most of the United States. Geographically it may have been wolf range but ecologically it has little resemblance to the county wolves previously inhabited."

[DitchPickle13]

Quote:

if i lived in wolf territory, i would coexist and take all the necessary precautions. high wire fence with hot wire if necessary and own certain breeds of dogs that are specifically designed as guards against wolves. kids are the adults responsibility. if a kid gets killed because of your open yard and was unsupervised, its human error.

Friar: Do you have a "coexist" bumper sticker? If so, please do your part and teach the wolves to read and obey it! : ) Thank You.

And no, I'm not going to provide any substantive arguments since most of it has been covered...just taking my shot.

[swamptiger]

I think Friar might be gone - look at the date on the posts..

This was a good thread - some good points brought up by some knowledgable people. Several have also mentioned they would like to see a hunting season on wolves if they are delisted. For my part, I would prefer to see a trapping season (with an option for hunting) - when they are in prime, so the fur can be utilized - it's very nice fur when put up properly.

[Mudflap]

Just a quick note....this dog survived an attack by three wolves in October but I had to put her down due to Lyme's complications.

I took her out for one last successful hunt on 12/23 and euthanized her in the back of my wife's CRV, her favorite place.

She passed with a beeper collar around her neck and laying on my game vest.

[reinhard1]

sorry about your loss. loosing my two dogs was very hard on me. i dont know if we will get another one. good luck.

[TooTallTom]

Jeez Mudflap, I'm sorry to hear that. It's nice that you got to get her out for one last hunt. I'm sure she was pretty excited about that.

Take Care,

Tom.

[rustysetter]

Sorry to hear that mudflap! great looking dog!! what were the lymes complications, mine has lymes now and not really showing any symptoms but tested positive. we have lots of deer ticks in our area.

[Duffman]

Sorry for your loss. She was a pretty dog, and that's a great picture to remember her by. Doing what she obviously loved to do.

[JayinMN]

Sorry to hear that Mudflap, she was a beautiful dog.

[swamptiger]

It's tough to lose a dog - especially a good one. My dad lost one of his favorite beagles to wolves about 20 years ago, and I lost a lab about 10 years ago to wolves or coyotes.

I've heard those deer ticks are really thick in the Bemidji area.