Dog attacked by Wolves during Grouse hunting

[Friar_Tuck]

I just hope no young child gets hurt or killed by this overpopulated species.

fear the human race killing & hurting children moreso than wolves. seriously, who is the worst offender BY FAR of the two, humans or wolves. its always woe is me the human, which are bunch of whiny spoiled cry baby brats. wolves hunting for survival vs humans hunting for sport. your in their territory which is an assumed risk. this all sounds just like hysteria of kill all the sharks, sharks are evil yet humans are swimming in the ocean.

minnesota human population ='s 5,266,214 MILLION that is.

wolf population a few thousand or so.

is it a wolf problem or a people problem? i'd rather see something done about our over populated species then the miniscule population of natural predators compared.

[germanshorthairs]

I guess I just value human life(my kids) over animal life. I don't fear wolves I can protect myself my children cannot!

[setterguy]

Friar - I'm pretty sure that I haven't read anywhere on this thread about a suggestion of killing all the wolves. The fact of the matter is that wolves which are a dangerous animal are in fact losing fear of humans. The proximity at which these attacks to people are coming is proof enough.

I love wolves, always have. Had Brandenburg pictures up in my room till I was married. I would never hunt them for sport, but on the flip side, wouldn't hesitate for a second to take one out if it were threatening me or anyone in my family and yes my dogs are part of our family.

You live in Southern MN, a lot of the responses are coming from guys in the area where these things live. Those are the opinions I trust the most. If Mountain lions took up residence in your backyard and attacked your dog or god forbid child you would be ok with it? Just a cat being a cat? I doubt it.

I don't think anyone on here has a personal dislike for the animals in general. Just a feeling that there are starting to be a few too many. The fact of the matter is that there are lots of people, and when animals start hurting them, I'm on the peoples side every time.

[houndsman]

If you had to live around wolves or if you have ever lost livestock or any animal to a wolf you would be signing a different tune. Its pretty obvoius that you live no were around wolfs.

fear the human race killing & hurting children moreso than wolves. seriously, who is the worst offender BY FAR of the two, humans or wolves. its always woe is me the human, which are bunch of whiny spoiled cry baby brats. wolves hunting for survival vs humans hunting for sport. your in their territory which is an assumed risk. this all sounds just like hysteria of kill all the sharks, sharks are evil yet humans are swimming in the ocean.

.

is it a wolf problem or a people problem? i'd rather see something done about our over populated species then the miniscule population of natural predators compared.

[walleye101]

is it a wolf problem or a people problem? i'd rather see something done about our over populated species then the miniscule population of natural predators compared.

That is an interesting perspective Tuck. I would like to hear exactly what you would like done about our overpopulated species.

Sorry, had to edit that last comment.

[caseymcq]

Friar - I'm pretty sure that I haven't read anywhere on this thread about a suggestion of killing all the wolves. ...

[Friar_Tuck]

Friar -

I love wolves, always have. Had Brandenburg pictures up in my room till I was married. I would never hunt them for sport, but on the flip side, wouldn't hesitate for a second to take one out if it were threatening me or anyone in my family and yes my dogs are part of our family.

You live in Southern MN, a lot of the responses are coming from guys in the area where these things live. Those are the opinions I trust the most. If Mountain lions took up residence in your backyard and attacked your dog or god forbid child you would be ok with it? Just a cat being a cat? I doubt it.

I don't think anyone on here has a personal dislike for the animals in general. Just a feeling that there are starting to be a few too many. The fact of the matter is that there are lots of people, and when animals start hurting them, I'm on the peoples side every time.

i'm not saying one shouldn't act if its a last resort or seriously threatening. i haven't always lived here & used to scuba dive in waters where maneaters were apart of the ecosystem there. i assumed the risk and if i were killed, it was my choice to venture where i did. hiked in mountains where there were cougar & bear, again i assumed the risk and the last thing i would want personally if i were killed is that animal destroyed.

if i lived in wolf territory, i would coexist and take all the necessary precautions. high wire fence with hot wire if necessary and own certain breeds of dogs that are specifically designed as guards against wolves. kids are the adults responsibility. if a kid gets killed because of your open yard and was unsupervised, its human error.

not saying its sad for a persons pet or family to get harmed. but life is life also. there are a countless ways to be harmed or die in the world. we can only do our best to take the necessary precautions we can without wiping out or outlawing anything & everything that can harm us.

p.s walleye101 i seen your comment before it was edited. i have done my part with not choosing to have kids for that very reason. theres 6.7 billion humans on this planet which has over doubled since 1960 and growing. you can only put so many fish in a fish bowl then things start to go very wrong, in many ways countless things in the world already have and will continue too. humans are selfish, short sighted & have no foresight. balance is a lost concept in the human race.

[walleye101]

p.s walleye101 i seen your comment before it was edited. i have done my part with not choosing to have kids for that very reason. theres 6.7 billion humans on this planet which has over doubled since 1960 and growing. you can only put so many fish in a fish bowl then things start to go very wrong, in many ways countless things in the world already have and will continue too. humans are selfish, short sighted & have no foresight. balance is a lost concept in the human race.

I apologize for that comment. It was inappropriate and properly edited out. If you read my earlier posts you will see that I have not advocated for eradication of the species, only some reasonable reduction in population density that would greatly reduce the frequency of wolf attacks on dogs which are becoming fairly common in northern MN. The danger to humans is minuscule at best and should never have entered the discussion.

Managing the population at 1/2 the current density for example, would result in far more than a 50% reduction in wolf/dog, or wolf/livestock incidents. The remaining wolf population would naturally gravitate to the best wolf habitat in the more isolated core wolf range, large undeveloped tracts of public lands and wilderness areas. The portion of the wolf population that would be most affected by population management would be those packs and dispersing juveniles that have been forced to the fringe of prime wolf habitat. That is where most of the conflicts occur, where wolves are forced into unnaturally close proximity to man.

Until you are successful in some serious human population reduction that is reality. The issue has gone well beyond the biological question of how large and how far can the wolf population expand, and is now a social question of how many serious wolf conflicts are we willing to tolerate.

[Harmonica Bear]

Huh????

Compared to who? Aliens?

[brittman]

Friar - I always like it when someone says they chose not to have kids. Natural selection working well.

That said, there are plenty of couples out there are not so lucky and cannot have children and that is sad.

The poor, the uneducated and ignorant continue to breed and populate the earth like (well rabbits) at an alarming rate, while the educated and economically stable only have a few children ... produces a bimodal population distribution that is going in the wrong direction.

Wolves. The current MN population is at DOUBLE the goal of 1500 animals. Why not allow hunting to control popluation and generate income for the DNR. Bears are managed that way.

I propose that below Hwy 2/200 that wolves are unprotected and no quota on kills. To the north they are managed with a popluation goal of 1500 animals.

[Friar_Tuck]

Quote:

Friar - I always like it when someone says they chose not to have kids. Natural selection working well.

what exactly are you implying? that somehow i am lesser than because of what reasoning? are you able to determine what my genetic profile is over the net? FYI; on either side of my family there are absolutely no genetic hereditary health issues i have found. all my grandparents are currently living and/or passed have lived long natural lives. this is something i have looked into indepth so i have an idea what i may be in for down the road. thus far at 41, i only take a vitamin.

if you have children, what heriditary medical issues have you and/or your wife or whomever passed on which they will most certainly be afflicted with in time? its amazing that people knowingly pass on serious genetic faults too future generations, simply irresponsible.

i would be all for a 3 part screening process for human breeding via genetics, physcological & financial all combined. we take more care breeding pure bred >insert animal breed here< then we do humans. while humans become weaker genetically due to indiscriminant breeding practices. passing on multitudes of hereditary diseases/bad genetics. which have to be managed through medical advances. where true natural selection would of not allowed them to survive. there is no longer "only the strongest survive" as it was meant to be.

the problem is that there will never be enough people to voluntarily refrain from having children to make a dent towards a commensense sustainable human population. we will continue to slowly run this earth into the ground, like a parasite devouring its host.

but heres the bad part i believe will potentially happen. because humans can't seem to make or willing to make the right choices for the preservation of the planet for the long term greater good of mankind. the governments will step in and do something about it. it is not too far fetched too foresee them letting a little nasty biological agent loose in the population. don't think for a minute the governments don't fully understand the over population issue & its consquences. also don't think for a minute they'll simply stand by & allow humans to completely destroy this planet either.

at some point in time whether the governments do it or we do it to ourselves, there will be extreme suffering on a global scale, on many levels that your future generations will have to endure due to human greed, selfishness & over population.

Quote:

That said, there are plenty of couples out there are not so lucky and cannot have children and that is sad.

not really sad, theres a reason why they can not and should not inrelation to what i wrote above, natural selection ;0). they can certainly adopt if it means that much to them to have a family.

Quote:

Huh????

Compared to who? Aliens?

i apologize that my statements are extremely confusing for you. next time i will express them in a more sesame street easily understandable fashion. surprised you didn't find a spelling error from me to make light of as most do when they have no intelligent answer to add.

heres an idea for people with dogs in wolf territory. use kevlar cut vests out in the feild that hog hunters use on their dogs hunting boar especially since wolves like to gut. also theres a working purpose for spiked collars other than looks. these 2 things alone would help reduce the severity of injuries and very possibly prevent your dog from being killed.

is it really that impossible for some to coexist with wolves? or is it that people don't want to make the necessary adjustments in their lives or living situations to coexist?

the natural world is that much more amazing with wolves apart of it vs the great loss it would be to humanity without. i understand many on here don't want to see that loss, just making a statement.

[walleye101]

I respect Friar's decision not to have kids and will take his word that it is for environmental reasons. I know others who have made that choice for more selfish reasons but that can be a good choice as well. Personally I wish there were more folks making that choice for whatever reason.

[Friar_Tuck]

i'm a bit shocked at your response walleye101 & appreciate it!! it depresses me to see what the human race is doing to the planet & its biodiversity. the wonders of the natural world & its biodiversity is the true wealth that humanity has. unfortunately not enough people see or understand this to the extent they should.

[brittman]

Well this thread has spun off in one strange direction.

Walley101: agree, but the wrong people often make this decision.

Friar: you are one unique (well if not strange) dude for a hunting site. Welcome. It will be interesting what yarns you spin over time. I notice you say "I" and not "we" in your discussions on procreation, suggesting you are indeed single.

Believe it ... in the South, the NAACP fought school distributed birth control on the basis that is was genetic racism. How ignorant is it to perpetuate teen age prenancy in poor demographic groups.

[Pinusbanksiana]

There is inherit risks when hunting. Running my setters in wolf country is one of them. I recognize that risk but still choose to run them. If anything would happen to them, sure I would be peeved but I knew that going into this game. I see plenty of wolves, saw one today in fact. Never had a problem with them and my dogs, but don't think I haven't thought about it. I would have no problem taking one out of the gene pool if I had to. But I don't hate them.

[Friar_Tuck]

brittman, i used to hunt & run trap line when younger. which my parents did the same. then i came to a conclusion on my own at a young age that i thought the critters looked better alive then dead in my drown sets. i'd rather watch mink, beaver & muskrats go about their business and take photographs vs killing them. i have nothing against ethical hunting even though i personally don't care to see large predators or the large herbivors taken like moose.

i could see boar hunting with dogs and know many people in other states that do. since they are an extremely destructive invasive species as you know. might be past my time before they do but they will get established in minnesota as they are becoming in wisconsin.

i am an avid fisherman but strictly CPR and have been since about age 13.

i was married at one time but she was a career woman and didn't want kids either. i always have made that up front & clear my position on it starting a relationship.

unfortunately nothing will change with over population, not with the billions of individual wants & minds in the world. thats why i do believe since the masses are not willing to nor will accept any form population control, the governments will do it through the back door someday. thats not me thinking irrational either its very plausable for a number of reasons they do that.

i'm glad i live on the earth now verses 50 plus years from now. think theres pressure on lakes or in hunting areas now. what til theres double, triple & quadruple the population in minnesota. all of those remote prestine areas many of us enjoy now will no longer be remote or prestine. its just a matter of time.

i personally don't think the sacrifices the planet and all its biodiversity is worth losing just so humans can freely breed as they wish. its also not fair to the future generations to live in that type of world either. just as i can tell from a kid to the present how things aren't gettin better but gradually worse on many levels. ultimately it will be humans that will suffer the most by those sacrifices.

[DIESELDAN]

I think everyone is entitled to there own opinion some think wild animals should have the same rights as people, the world is going to melt because of global warming and hay its america think what you like just don't expect me to agree with you because I'm hunting as often and for as many different things as are legal. And I'm going to get there driving my lifted bigblock suburban at 8 mpg. So you can take your prius for a ride and hug wolves (It worked well for that grizzly bear guy) just my opinion.

[FCspringer]

Bla Bla Bla, Caseymcq, I notice just about every post you toss up you are multi quoting someone, must be a personal problem, OK wise guy, so I exaggerated a bit. Call out the cavalry. I hate barn cats too I spouse thats not proper for you. The # of wolves in MN should be at least dropped back to a manageable #, which they have determined to be about 1,200-1,400 animals. Look up the #'s of tax dollars going to predation problems, reimbursements etc. It is ridiculous. Why not get the season going. Well, they will soon any way. The whole time the bleeding hearts told every one the wolf is in danger of being extinct was a Lie. A complete farce. There was still way too many in Canada and Alaska. They were or never have been in danger. Canada has about 52,000-60,000 wolves alone. Ontario has never stopped hunting them, they can hunt them year round in much of the region, the rest almost all of it they have a season in which you get a tag to shoot two. The only areas not allowed are some town ships and federal parks. Yea I exaggerated, stop banging your little head over it and go fishing or something. The fact is there effort was unwarranted and now back firing, causing problems and costing millions of dollars for nothing. Idaho and Montana figured it out and are already dropping 1/2 the # down from the 450 or so they wasted $ on out there stocking the darn things. Season started last year there. So why not here where the population is way higher and the problems along with it. All they are is a deadlier Coyote... No one whines about Coyote hunting.

[caseymcq]

Bla Bla Bla, Caseymcq, I notice just about every post you toss up you are multi quoting someone,...

[setterguy]

We can certainly have the conversation about pros and cons for wolves, but lets do it in another forum. We are getting way off base here.

[Ufatz]

Thought I'd check back in to see how this discussion was getting along. It quickly reminded me that you never know what is walking down the sidewalk beside you. (S)

[brian6715]

FCspringer please calm down and/or go fishing. Caseymcq keep up the good informative posts, everyone here benefits from reading your analysis (and good use of quoting!)

This post is a great topic that all Minnesotan sportsmen should be interested in, and I would love to follow where it goes. Can we please keep it on topic?

[cbrooks]

Well, if I was ever in a situation where wolves were too close for comfort to me or my dog. I would take them out on the spot or some other time. I'll pay the fine. There's no way I'll let a wolf kill my dog if I can help it.

[FCspringer]

I apologize if it seems I came across harsh, certainly not intended, and not like me. I also apologize for misspelling a word while typing. That usually never happens to anyone. Here is a bit of info from the tribune, an on line article. It is part of an article on the subject. It goes on to discuss it further, but gets rather lengthy.

Rise of wolves putting Minnesota pets at risk

Complaints - and fears - about attacks on dogs are increasing along with wolf numbers in northern Minnesota.

By DOUG SMITH, Star Tribune

Gray wolf

Associated Press

When Bruce Mell left the Twin Cities and retired to a lakeside cabin in northern Minnesota two years ago, he took along his canine companion, Sadie."She and I retired together," Mell, who is 61 and divorced, said of the 80-pound black Lab-mix he had rescued from an animal shelter. "We've been together for 10 years. Every morning when I got up to fix coffee and some breakfast, I'd let her outside. She never went far, just stayed around the yard."But one recent morning, Mell went out to tinker with equipment on his 5 acres in the woods near Hill City and immediately noticed something was wrong."No dog," he said. "At first I didn't think much of it, but then I started to worry."Mell found Sadie's remains in the woods not far from his cabin. Wolves had killed and eaten her."There was almost nothing left: The end of her tail, a bit of rib cage and her collar," he said. "Your heart just drops. Me and her were pretty tight."

Sadie is among seven dogs federal officials have confirmed were killed by wolves so far this year in Minnesota -- part of a recent spate of dog-wolf encounters and an overall increase in wolf attacks on domestic animals -- mostly livestock.

"I'd say [depredation] complaints are up 10 percent to 20 percent this year," said John Hart, district supervisor for the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services, which investigates wolf incidents and traps and kills problem wolves.

As of last week, his agency had received 131 complaints of domestic animals killed or injured by wolves. Last year, officials hadn't receive that many complaints until mid-November. Sixty of the complaints have been verfied, compared with 75 all of last year.

[walleye101]

I recall reading that some time ago. Do you have a date when this was printed? It would help put some of the numbers reported in perspective. So many reports or kills by this time last year.....not reaching 131 til November last year....