Dogs distance when pointing grouse?

[JJK]

All the birds I've been finding are very spooky. I was wondering how far from the bird is your dog locking up. Sunday we moved 8 but my pup only pointed a pair. He was about 10 yards from the closest bird. I thought this was a good distance and was pleased to get a shot off.

An hour earlier I saw one on the edge of a trail. My dog was ahead and to the right of it. I called him in and he almost ran it over on his way back to me. It shocked him when it flushed, he didn't scent it at all. I was bummed. Should I have shot it before I called him in? Looking back I wish I had, then he could've tasted it and I'd have some wings and feathers for the dummies.

Did the local woodcock move out? Everyone I talked to said they saw very few, but had seen a lot the last 2 weekends. When do the northern birds come through?

[rundrave]

I was wondering how far from the bird is your dog locking up. Sunday we moved 8 but my pup only pointed a pair. He was about 10 yards from the closest bird. I thought this was a good distance and was pleased to get a shot off.

[2thepointsetters]

If the dog is not steady I dont shoot unless the bird is pointed and held. I dont the want dog to think that its ok to bump a bird and I will shot it anyway. Once a dog is steady and honors the birds I will shoot if one flushes wild.

Grouse are a hard bird for a dog to point because they dont like to be pressured. I like a dog that locks up on first sent not one that trys to zero in on the bird. When they were younger and I would notice them get "birdy" I would whoa them so they wouldnt bust the bird. It is not uncommon to have grouse pointed 30 yards out when its windy.

[setterguy]

Every dog is different. Every condition is different. Every bird is different.

Some dogs got it. Some don't. Some know the magical distance they can get, some never figure it out. Some stop at the faintest hint of scent, some try and get as close as they can.

The only way to know for sure what you go is to get your dog out on as many birds as possible, only shoot pointed birds no matter what and see how it all shakes out.

[JJK]

Woahing him when he gets birdy, I'm going start doing that. In thinking about it I see some benefits. Stopping him when he's on rodent, deer, or bird scent will be a plus. Training him to woah was fairly easy, and so was woahing him with the beeper sounding off every second. I work on it while hunting anyways, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I get it, that there are too many variables that effect his behavior. And what I'm finding out is that I don't want him crowding these birds. The one he almost ran over would be difficult for him to scent. It was up wind and he was focused on getting back to me.

I've used bottled grouse scent on dummies for retrieving. Maybe I should hide the dummy instead, or just squirt some on the ground. Would that type of exposure help?

I'm more concerned with having a steady dog and only shooting at birds he points, not just killing grouse. I plan on hunting him every chance I get, and I know it will take some time for him figure it out. Right now I'm just trying to run him in areas that hold birds. I've been looking for good cover and providing productive hunting and training situations. But at the same time I'm learning how to hunt grouse my self, so I'm probably making mistakes. And since I've never had any grouse dogs I'm not sure what to look for in him. Really don't if he has it or will get it.

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.

[Acemac]

even hidden dummies dont fly get real birds!

[JJK]

I'd like to use live birds, but pen raised birds ain't the same. They flat out stink and not as challenging as wild birds. I agree there benefits to planting birds and simulating hunts. But at the same time I'm not in a position to run to the game farm. I'm 50/50 with the idea of doing a game farm training/hunting session during deer season.

[TylerS]

I'd like to use live birds, but pen raised birds ain't the same. They flat out stink and not as challenging as wild birds. I agree there benefits to planting birds and simulating hunts. But at the same time I'm not in a position to run to the game farm. I'm 50/50 with the idea of doing a game farm training/hunting session during deer season.

I'm in the same boat as you. There's no way I could keep penned up birds in the city limits of Fargo without getting the authorities called to my house.

What I've been doing is getting my dog out as much as possible. I know it's before pheasant season, but we walk CRP and cattails whenever possible. When I go scouting for waterfowl, if I see a covey of birds on the road, I hit the breaks and take the dog out. More often than not the birds are long gone by the time we get there, but he gets the chance to pick up scent and gets super birdy.

I've had him out hunting a half dozen times now. He has yet to point while upland hunting, but he almost always points a bird before retrieving it (sometimes it's a real chore to make him break point and grab the bird because he gets so focused).

Since I have no opportunity for pen raised birds, getting him out as much as possible on wild ones is what has worked for me. I think you'll find the same scenario will pan out for you. The more you get him on those birds, the more he'll start to figure things out. I, personally, can not believe how much Remy has changed since the first time he was out when he was 4 months old. He's figured things out just by experiencing them.

[JJK]

Keeping a few birds in the yard is not the issue. The birds behavior and how they stink is. Have you seen the pens used to house these birds, they are crammed in there. They sit in [PoorWordUsage] their whole lives. My pup pointed wild pheasant and grouse at 4 to 5 months old. Then pen raised quail at 9 months and on. He crowed all those birds, the wild ones naturally flushed but the quail were kicked up. I'm not aware of any public land in my area that holds birds for those fun walks. Tyler you are fortunate to have decent land close to the city, wish I did. This will be an interesting hunting season for both of us. Good Luck.

[870Express]

My advice would be to use those pen-raised birds to teach your dog his manners. Keep the check cord on him and control the situation. That is all they are good for and it sounds like you found that out. The rest he has to figure out by experience.

At the same time, I'd be bringing him out to the field trying to get any real bird exposure. The pen-raised birds are just so he knows what to do when he does encounter a bird. Once he learns that game, he'll have to learn wild birds on his own. It will be frusterating as he will bump birds for 1-2+ years depending on exposure. No launcher/scent dummy or anything can recreate wild birds. I was once told that our first 3 years in a pointing dog will be a frusterating investment. The next 7 years will be an unbelieveable cash out. I guess I'm gullible enough to believe this but how many pointing dog people have switched to flushers? Not many I've ran across.

PS - planting dead birds, scented dummies are not good training practices. Either is wing-on-a-string.

[870Express]

One more thing: I live in what's becoming a SW suburb. Where I go during the week to get my brittany on live birds is in a cattail/filter strip along the golf course. Sometimes we'll see 2 birds a day. Some bumped, some rock solid points. But the birds are wild as golf course birds get.

[Acemac]

no were to go??

I got the dog on 2 roosters on some WMA land in waconia last week. up in WBL there is all sorts of places to go!

Ohh and if your dog is pointing dead birds he is sight pointing and you need to get that taken care of ASAP!

Get some wild birds and plant them make him point them. Dogs have great noseses they dont need to practice pointing with a wing on a string or scented dummies. they need really birds.

here is a video of my pup at 5 months pointing and holding for a hidden bird she has never sight pointed anything.

[JJK]

I didn't say there is no where to go. And yes I realize this and next season will be tough. This discussion was to be focused on how close the dog is to ruffed grouse when he locks up. I'm finding that most of the time these birds won't stand for a dog crowding or tracking them, they'll just bust. So if I can get some tips that will help simplify or speed up the process, I'll try'em. We'll just keep hunting as much as possible and see what happens.

Thanks.

[JJK]

Last weekend went all right. We moved 14 ruffs and 3 woodcock hunting marginal cover. My pup had 8-10 non productive points, but whoaed well. He is running really hard, probably too hard. I've been working on keeping him closer so I can keep better tabs on him, and it's going O.K. Did manage 1 bird, but it wasn't the ideal point,flush,and shot. He was standing still so I shot, and he retrieved it. It was warm so we took a lot of breaks,no sense in running him with such a heavy pant. We'll try it again on Friday and Saturday.

[setterguy]

Here is the only way to train a dog to stop at the first hint of scent.

Get bird launchers, put in pigeons, chukars, whatever. bring your dog in downwind, on a lead, as soon as you know he smells that bird (you'll be able to tell) launch the bird and hold him.

Once he starts pointing right away, you can start shooting the birds for him...thus his reward for holding point right away. He'll learn.

I've seen some dogs act like knuckleheads for 3 years, then one day, they figure it out and go on to become excellent grouse dogs.

***No such thing as a dog running too hard, if they have the nose to back it up***

This is my best advice for anyone new to the pointing dog game...trust your dog. It is hard sometimes, but believe me I've seen many more dogs that never lived up to their potential because they were reined in early on. If it turns out that your dog truly does run too big for the the woods, that can be corrected anytime. But if you start out his hunting career always calling him back, correcting him and keeping him close you might never get that drive back.

Let him run, let him bust birds (wild ones), let him make mistakes, let him find as many birds as possible. Your dog might become a great grouse dog, but constantly calling him in, and not letting him range is and will going to hinder his potential.

[Harmonica Bear]

Let him run, let him bust birds (wild ones), let him make mistakes, let him find as many birds as possible. Your dog might become a great grouse dog, but constantly calling him in, and not letting him range is and will going to hinder his potential.

Amen.

[JJK]

I don't like calling him in too much, and try to avoid it. I'm running the beeper on point only and with the leaves coming down I can see better. He really wants to search but hunts for himself some of time. I can identify the deer chase now, and birdiness.

Any of you lose your dog for short periods? If so what do you do? Wait where you are, go looking for the dog, keep hunting and thank God when he tracks you down or go back to the truck? I've done all of these and it sucks.

[setterguy]

Does your collar have a locate feature on it? It is a nice piece of mind knowing that you can hit a button and instantly know where your dog is.

During the few times that my dogs have run off I almost always get to the nearest trail, and call. Remember to call to the ground, not the air. They can't always tell direction of your voice unless you aim it directly at the ground. It does suck but 999 out of 1000 times they do come back.

[fisher]

even hidden dummies dont fly get real birds!

ok where do we get the real birds Ill buy 20 for next spring now name the price

[Matt Breuer]

Any of you lose your dog for short periods? If so what do you do? Wait where you are, go looking for the dog, keep hunting and thank God when he tracks you down or go back to the truck? I've done all of these and it sucks.

YES! I hate when they go on a run or are on point and I can't find them. I run the bell most often, and lately have been going without the collar or the bell and it's been a big mistake. I like the peaceful hunting without the noise, but can't stand calling them "off" when I can't locate 'em or walking around without a dog hunting in front of me! Haha! The last two times I've just let them run and kept hunting until they came back. We live in town, so I think they need to get the run out at times...

[brittman]

Pointing dogs often take age (maturity) as much as experience to become the complete dog. Most of my Brittanys point wild birds at 6 - 10 months old, but that 1 year old dog - they just get antsy and it is a tough year for all. Patience is usually a good trait for a pointing dog owner - somedays easier said than done.

From what I have experienced and observed, preserves and released birds are good if used sparingly. I do believe if you can overexpose them to these birds too and get a bird that becomes robotic rather than instinctive.

Run away dogs ... I have found two main (not the only) culprits to dogs disappearing for awhile. Wind and deer.

Wind swirls scent both the birds (quarry) and yours (you are the dog's partner) it also makes it very difficult for the dog to hear you. Most dogs keep track of their owners in one fashion or another.

Deer - you will likely never see the deer your dog pushes and maybe your dog does not see them either, but many, many a dog gets separated from their owner because they run fresh deer scent or chase 'em. For younger dogs the scent is intoxicating. I think many a bird dog owner underestimates what deer can do to their bird dog. Most bird dogs seem to outgrow deer once they have enough birds under their belt. In extreme cases it may take some corrective action.

[JJK]

Deer really amp him up and off he goes. If I can see him I can tell he is on deer and gets corrected. When he's on treed squirrels he lets out this high pitched bark which is nice. Last weekend he pointed a dead porcupine on the side of the road. A nick did nothing so he got burned.

My collar doesn't have a locate feature, and the page beep isn't very loud.I don't care for any noise when we hunt. I run the beeper point only hawk scream on low volume. But it sounds off every second when he is still, I'd like 1 beep every 5 or 10 seconds when he points. Might have to look into a different beeper collar,picked this one because I'm strapped for cash for now.

Do the beepers spook the birds?

[Mearnsquail]

My advice would be to use those pen-raised birds to teach your dog his manners. Keep the check cord on him and control the situation. That is all they are good for and it sounds like you found that out. The rest he has to figure out by experience.

At the same time, I'd be bringing him out to the field trying to get any real bird exposure. The pen-raised birds are just so he knows what to do when he does encounter a bird. Once he learns that game, he'll have to learn wild birds on his own. It will be frusterating as he will bump birds for 1-2+ years depending on exposure. No launcher/scent dummy or anything can recreate wild birds. I was once told that our first 3 years in a pointing dog will be a frusterating investment. The next 7 years will be an unbelieveable cash out. I guess I'm gullible enough to believe this but how many pointing dog people have switched to flushers? Not many I've ran across.

PS - planting dead birds, scented dummies are not good training practices. Either is wing-on-a-string.

The best advice right there! Pigeons and pen raised quail are like college. Wild birds are like their first job. They have the tools and knowledge,but they really learn on the job, by making mistakes.

[JJK]

Hunted for a few hours yesterday and saw 3 birds. One wild flush, Gus was in the cover on the right and the bird busted 10 yds in to the left. Another flushed off the road edge when I drove by doing 20 mph. Dog searched well but we didn't contact or see many birds while walking. Had one flush from the road so I parked and we went in. Not far in and he locks up (sweet) but no flush. Another 20 yds deeper I seem him all birdy, then bump it. Darn it. Looking back at it now, I don't know if he was pointing the bird or the spot where the bird just was. His head was not to the ground and the point wasn't very intense, so I released him.

Did I make a mistake by releasing him?

[Pinusbanksiana]

YES! I hate when they go on a run or are on point and I can't find them. I run the bell most often, and lately have been going without the collar or the bell and it's been a big mistake. I like the peaceful hunting without the noise, but can't stand calling them "off" when I can't locate 'em or walking around without a dog hunting in front of me! Haha! The last two times I've just let them run and kept hunting until they came back. We live in town, so I think they need to get the run out at times...