rage on large game

[PFUNK]

Just curious to know if anyone here has used rage broadheads on large game before like elk. I had a nightmare situation a week ago when I called in a bull elk and got a perfect 26 yard broadside shot. Arrow looked like it didn't penetrate at all on impact and i placed the shot exactly where i wanted to. High chest behind the shoulder is where I hit him. I found the arrow 10 yards from where he was when I shot. Broke off just above the insert with about 3 additional inches of bloody arrow. Broadhead was nowhere to be found. I am assuming it is still in the elk. Tracked spotty blood for about 250 yards and then nothing. Only thing I can think of is that I dead centered a rib and got terrible penetration. I think the equipment was to blame here. What are your thoughts?

[mrklean]

i know some guides and western states wont let you use anything but fixed blade broadheads on big game for that exact reason.

[Scoot]

Sorry to hear about this- that sucks.

...and i placed the shot exactly where i wanted to. High chest behind the shoulder is where I hit him.

This makes no sense to me at all. If you hit him exactly where you wanted to, why on earth did you hit him in the "high chest"??? Either you didn't hit him where you wanted to or you wanted to hit him where you shouldn't. I'm not trying to pick a fight here-- that just makes no sense to me.

There are thousands of posts on this topic all over the internet. If you listen to many whitetail hunters from the midwest, expandables are fine for elk. If you listen to guys who have been around and bow hunted elk for their whole lives, very, very few will tell you it's a good idea to use expandables on elk. I used expandables my first year I elk hunted-- shot a nice bull at eight feet and didn't get a pass through (no shoulder contact and no major bone contact on the shot with a bow that had nearly 90 KE). In short, it's a bad idea to use expandables for elk or other very large critters. They may be in the deer family, but they're really not put together at all like deer-- everything is thicker, tougher, and WAY harder to get through on an elk.

[PFUNK]

when i say i hit him high chest i didn't mean the shot was too high. I prefer shooting for lungs as they are a lot larger target than the heart so I shoot for them. Also I have found that if i have to hold for a long time before the shot and get really tired, I'll miss low if i miss anywhere. It gives me more room for error, as I rarely miss high when shooting. It's just my preference. Believe me, the shot was without a doubt in the vital area. Like I said, only thing I can think of that happened was that i hit a rib dead center. I have read up on this and it sounds like elk ribs are large and if you happen to hit one center cut it will take a lot to punch through.

[Bear55]

i know some guides and western states wont let you use anything but fixed blade broadheads on big game for that exact reason.

I have to agree here, probably not the best head for elk and moose. I am sure they can and do work but something tells me you wished you had a fixed blade right now.

[PFUNK]

Absolutely... arrows are already refitted with cut on contact fixed blades. Will not be shooting an expandable any time soon.

[matchset]

PFunk....did u use the Rage 2 blade? or did u use the Rage 40ke???

[bottom-bouncer]

I had this same experience three years ago using the rage only mine was on a whitetail. no penetration and the rage broke off rite at the insert watched the arrow hit and fall to the ground. switched back to muzzy's when I got home that night. I believe I still have that arrow or the head I will take a pic and post it.

[matchset]

i shot a great deer last night, complete pass-through. rage 2 blade. deer only went 10 yards. and i'm not exaggerating.

4 more days till i go moose hunting! and my quiver will be filled with Rage.

[harvey lee]

I like the Rage head for deer but I would never use one on a animal the size of an elk.

When I elk archery hunted, my Muzzy's were used.

[gardn184]

I know my boss at the archery shop shoots elk with the 40ke, which are designed for a better penetration, and hasn't had an issue, I shoot the regular 2 blades but I wouldn't be shooting them at anything but a deer, moose and elk would be fixed blades or 40ke's

[PFUNK]

I don't doubt that at all. I got a complete pass through on a buck I shot with a rage head as well. I just will not shoot them again as I have seen the other side of the coin. There is no reason my arrow shouldn't have penetrated the elk considering where I hit him. It's your call on what to use for that moose hunt, but I would highly recommend against the rage after my experience. It does not have bone breaking power. Good luck and I hope u take a good bull!

[ChrisT]

I don't know if I would blame the head completly in this instance. I have not hit a rib straight on while shooting an elk, but last year I caught an edge of a rib and it deflected my arrow significantly. My muzzy looked like it hit a rock. Luckly I caught one lung and managed to catch up with my bull, but I think the ribs are very tough on those critters.

[matchset]

not to mention....a "high" chest shot.... if placed behind the front leg; may in fact strike the shoulder blade if placed high enough on an elk. shot like that are never fun, and might happen with; regardless of what type of broadhead.

[PFUNK]

I've tried to figure that out ever since the shot... checked every diagram of elk anatomy to try to figure out what happened. The shot shouldn't have hit the shoulder blade. I regret saying high chest as that is open for interpretation. I only meant to say I like shooting for lungs rather than trying to clip the heart. I guess I will never know but I still think it's a much smarter idea to use a fixed blade on big animals like elk.

[ChrisT]

Unfortunatly hindesight is always 20/20 in these situations. In CO you can't use a mechanical broadhead for elk and I guess that is the main reason why. I find it interesting that all the commercials for mechanical broadheads show the same or better penitration than a fixed blade.

[Bear55]

One thing to add here is you might have just been unlucky and hit the rib just right to cause the poor penetration, maybe the broadhead used might not have made a difference. I have seem two different hunting shows where a guy using a muzzeloader (over 1800 fps) had video of the bullet bounces off a rib or shoulder, it was crazy but it does happen. I guess sometimes the hunter gets lucky, sometimes the deer or elk get lucky. It is easy to 2nd guess yourself but sometimes these things just happen, don't be too hard on yourself.

[bottom-bouncer]

I don't know if I would blame the head completly in this instance. I have not hit a rib straight on while shooting an elk, but last year I caught an edge of a rib and it deflected my arrow significantly. My muzzy looked like it hit a rock. Luckly I caught one lung and managed to catch up with my bull, but I think the ribs are very tough on those critters.

what would you blame then The head failed plain and simple. Your muzzy may have looked like it hit a rock but it stayed together and finished the job it was meant to.

[bottom-bouncer]

Here is a pic of the arrow I was talking about you can see were the rage two blade snapped. This was from hitting 150 class buck 5-6 inches back from the shoulder sqaure on a rib.

[MikeEiden]

As mentioned anything can happen and unfortunately it did for you and BB. I only started bow hunting 3 years ago and went through the long process of choosing a broadhead. I have many friends that shoot Rage and like them but I ended up going with G5 Strikers for a number of reasons. First off, I wanted to minimize the number of variables of something going wrong being that I am new to the sport. I read about deployment issues on a number of mechanicals for a variety of reason based on many hours of reading reviews/forums. Next I read enough reviews of people damaging aluminum ferrules to the point of poor penetration or at least not reusable. So I figured why not just go with a steel ferrule. I also wasn't a fan of tiny screws and rubber bands so the Rage were looking less and less attractive; except for the gapping holes some are posting!

I guess where I'm going with this is there a number of ways for things to go wrong and going up in game size will only increase murphy's law even more. I can only assume this is why the guides are leaning towards fixed blades. Shoot what you are most confident with...

[PFUNK]

I won't deny it at all... I blame myself for this completely. I always shot rage back home in MN at deer with no problems. I got to Montana and didn't take the time to switch to a fixed blade. I go to pharmacy school here and it takes up a good chunk of time, so I don't get to dedicate a ton to scouting, preparing, and hunting. So I just figured what the heck... I'll try the rage and try to get close. Well... I got close.. and still had a bad result. I don't mean to blame anything but myself... I thought all along that the rage may not do the job... but I figured others use them so maybe I was worrying over nothing. Turns out it didn't work. May have been bad luck... may have been a poorly made broadhead for the game... whatever it was it ended up in a terrible feeling in a gut that left me feeling that fixed blades are a must here. Thank you all for the input. I appreciate it.

[PFUNK]

Bottom bouncer... I know how you feel. Looks very similar to what I saw. In my opinion, that shouldn't happen to a well made broadhead. But at the same time, stuff happens you just can't prevent... I will learn from it and make the switch to something I feel confident will get the job done.

[Jack Stasney]

Does anybody have any info on why you couldn't shoot an expandable at a large game? I'm not looking for an opinion here. It seems to me that a tougher hide would only help expand the blade. I've had fixed blade not penetrate and have switched over to Rage 2 blade this year. The hole on the deer was enormous, but I'm not going to say it's the greatest thing in the world either. How can I know that after one kill this year? Also I'm not trying to say that fixed blades don't work, just thought I'd try something new.

[mrklean]

you had fixed blades not penetrate? Did you hit the shoulder bone then?

[MikeEiden]

Here's a "thought" on it Jax.. sorry no concrete science to back it up. But my first thought was energy loss with mechanicals. Not just deployment but with the really large cutting diameters the steep blade angle (like 2-blade rage) also takes more energy to penetrate. Think about how you cut foods or anything else. That's why companies like rage decided to create a lower KE deploying head for certain situations and bow setups.

Big game requires more energy to penetrate deeper due to tougher hide, more muscle mass, and large bone structure.