organization to help Northern Pike fishery

[merkman]

So the bigger problem/question remains, how do you get these groups to work together?

[jeffreyd]

So the Muskie Inc by your post is the group that is ramrodding what everyone else is doing? The darkhouse and northern guys do not want to deal with the muskie group. so why not have the two groups make one, and take on the muskie group? When you are not asked to sit at the table, are you representing yourself or an organization? are these public meetings? if they are then there should be no way to say you cannot attend unless you have minced words with them in the past? But not willing to or wanting to waste your time or get beat on by groups and dnr is never fun. I had the sierra club, peta, defenders of wildlife and a couple others at the table with me, i got my tail handed to me but did not back down, held ground and worked out a deal where we can all work together.

So to answer your question to me, my statement which i thought was worded pretty clear is this. If i am fishing hook a pike with a spoon, do a C&R by the book, the next part is if you are doing spearing, there is only one outcome if you spear a pike, it will die. The chances are far greater that the hook and line method which may not be your way to fish, will normally have a better release statistic than spearing? So in your post you think that a better method is release/release and harvest/harvest? If you are spearing, are you not always harvesting? if i am hook fishing, do i not have the option to release or harvest? i do not think there is a comparison.

To your last question, i reread the post. i understand the fairness for both types of angling. I do think tho and again please know that i have never been in a dark house, is that you see the fish much faster and clearer than a hook angler. Therefore if you are on a slot lake, and either method is used, how do i know trolling along that i have a slot pike until i bring it in and measure etc? with the dark method, you have to use judgement maybe by hole size i dont not know, but i dont see a way to make it the same as it is apples to oranges.

Is there a solution or correct answer, i dont know? it is open to how the sportsmen and women want to work together to fix the problem. if they do not want to take the time to work together, we all know it is only going to get worse. nothing these days can be taken for granted, and just walking off is not the answer either. arm in arm sportman and women will get the changes needed. long and drawn out but it can be done. Thanks for questioning my questions, i write what i am thinking so it sometimes does not come out exactly as i like. thank you for respecting that and the fact, i am only asking questions and am involved as a sportsman that buys a fishing license each year regardless as if i am coming to mN to fish. I grew up fishing ottertail and brainard lakes, and want my son to have the same enjoyments and places to fish in the greatest habitat.

[merkman]

if they are then there should be no way to say you cannot attend unless you have minced words with them in the past?

[Muskiefool]

Another question we need to ask is how much this under-regulated destruction to the Pike fishery from angling and spearing is costing the lic. holders when we are stocking walleye into these lakes feeding hammer handle pike. MN pike is no different than a Canadian Pike other than the regulations.

There is allot of interest in the upper Midwest for a conservation based Pike org.

Any idea how much better the Pike fishing would be if we had a statewide 24-36 slot? 40% more fish over 40 inches and that's letting people harvest legal fish by any legal means. How bad do you pike fisherman want it?

Call the DNR.

[Nick Kuhn]

A statewide 24"-36" slot would produce well over 40% more 40" fish, probably closer to 400% more 40" fish in the long run.

[Gordie]

um

[Gordie]

Any idea how much better the Pike fishing would be if we had a statewide 24-36 slot? 40% more fish over 40 inches and that's letting people harvest legal fish by any legal means. How bad do you pike fisherman want it?

Call the DNR.

think about it more people harvesting fish over 36 inches thats what we all want isnt it

[Shawn Kellett]

There aren't many people harvesting fish over 36 right now because there aren't any.

[merkman]

Let the northern pike go the way of the muskie.

Close the winter season on them, yes make it illegal to catch and release them in the winter just like the muskie is now.

Keep going until you have a state wide 48 inch minimum on northern pike too

Don’t be satisfied with that though.

Keep on pushing to ban tip-ups, bobber fishing, live bait, what ever else floats your boat.

Heck after you succeed at banning every method other than your own, the greens will have easy work of finishing the job off.

There will be lots of northern pike then, you won’t be able to do much but look at them, but they will be there.

Minnesota can then change their nickname to the land of 10,000 aquariums.

That is what the greens are after anyway isn’t it?

Too much is just as bad or worse than not enough.

We are all working for the same outcome, a "better" pike fishery.

There are serious fundamental differences in the ways we support getting there without loosing the ship (the northern pike or the sport).

Who is right who is wrong? Who knows?

But if we don’t start honestly and openly listening to each others concerns and get over our egos it isn’t going to mater.

FYI:

John Underhill - Spokesman for Minnesota Muskie Alliance

Shawn Kellett - Spokesman for Muskies Inc

[Nick Kuhn]

There aren't many people harvesting fish over 36 right now because there aren't any.

Ain't that the truth. Even if the fish don't make it all the way to 40", or even 36", it still is a lot nicer to be catching a lot of 30"-35" fish as opposed to a lot of 20"-25" fish.

I would say my average northern on lakes with no special regs is around 22", whereas on lakes with special regs it's around 28". Remember by weight the 28" fish is twice the size, and also has double the fight.

[merkman]

Back to the original question of the post.

Good luck on getting the existing organizations or any new ones to agree on anything esoxhunter11. It would be nice; but I think for the foreseeable future it is business as usual in the northern pike world.

I wish you luck in the future.

[jeffreyd]

Merkman,

I do not want to battle but want to be able to clarify my quotes that you outlined.

the first one not much more to say except is that the only meeting that has been held?

the second quote, If you read my post, i said there is one outcome IF you SPEAR a pike. you say that is not true but clearly by the pictures i have seen, there is not a whole lot of releasing of speared pike. It is not a question or statement about watching the fish and calling that a release.

third, so you are saying that if i am fishing with hook, you are spearing, i catch one fish, you throw a spear and catch one fish, i can release mine, what are the chances that your fish will survive if you decide to release after it was speared?

As for the unintentional catch of a slot fish, does the same not occur with all species in a slot, so this is not just limited to northern pike? The fact remains that you have the choice when spearing to throw or not to throw, when fishing hook method, the only alternative i can see is to stay on shore and not fish at all, or dont use a hook, but then is it really fishing?

Can you honestly say that darkhouse spearing should have a variance on the slot where you can physically see a fish vs a guy who is standing on a dock throwing a line 50 yrds out and reeling in a lure?

I can see where the darkhouse guys are getting knocked down, as what is good for the goose should be good for the gander. But what happens when the state gets enough complaints about this either from the darkhouse guys saying they want a variance on the slot or from other angling community that says there should not be a variance? Do you think at some point DNR will look at the opportunity vs demand/complaints and try to shut down the whole darkhouse sport?

[merkman]

Merkman,

I do not want to battle

[Gordie]

Ain't that the truth. Even if the fish don't make it all the way to 40", or even 36", it still is a lot nicer to be catching a lot of 30"-35" fish as opposed to a lot of 20"-25" fish.

I would say my average northern on lakes with no special regs is around 22", whereas on lakes with special regs it's around 28". Remember by weight the 28" fish is twice the size, and also has double the fight.

wait let me throw on my chestwatders for a second I dont have that problem althou I dont target pike everyday but if I did I bet I could find bigger pike. I have no problem seeing them in the winter either.

Yes back to the original topic Good luck with pike management org. I hope to see it happen some day.

[merkman]

Yes back to the original topic Good luck with pike management org. I hope to see it happen some day.

+1

[RK]

Hiya -

It would be nice to see an organization that was out there advocating for better pike management in Minnesota. We have enormous potential (historical records show what a lot of our lakes are capable of) but in many areas of the state the fishery is a shadow of what it could be.

Merk, setting aside the fact that you've turned reductio ad absurdum into a full time occupation for a minute...

I still don't see why closed harvest on muskies after Dec 1. crosses your eyes so badly. You make it out to be something unprecedented. But Minnesota has closed seasons on just about everything but panfish. Walleyes, bass, pike all close at the end of February. They close the season on Lakers at the end of September. But I don't see you on your soapbox about those season closures. The only thing different here is the date. Oh...and it's muskies.

When the season is closed you can't target muskies, just like you can't target walleyes between Feb 27 and season opener, or Lakers after Sept. 30. Catch one by accident? Let it go. Nobody cares. I catch dozens of bass and pike fishing late ice panfish and, at least so far, the DNR hasn't kicked down my door in the middle of the night to haul me in. Sorry Merk - bring it up all you want, but there's no there there.

I'm still not buying the idea that slot limits on pike are part of some conspiracy to ban spearing either. There are 3,351 lakes in the state with northern pike, covering 2.17 million acres - 95 percent of the publicly-accessible water in the state of Minnesota. 106 of them – a whopping 3.1 percent – have special or experimental pike regulations.

If that's part of someone's master plan to get rid of spearing, they apparently have a lot of work to do.

Frankly I find the dire warnings about the pike fishery in MN becoming like the muskie fishery pretty entertaining too. Imagine if that did happen... We'd be stuck with...

...A world class fishery that attracts anglers from all over the country.

...A management program that is viewed as a best in class model by every other state that manages pike.

...Accessible opportunities for catching big pike in nearly every corner of the state.

Oh no. Not that. Please...no...

Yeah, way more fun catching hammer handles.

[foulpole18]

Another excellent post by RK. I agree 100%. If all those things happened, we would be the envy of the Midwest. I bet the resorts would like to pad their bottom line with tourist who would like to enjoy a better fishery.

[cbrooks]

Are slots the only way to manage a healthy pike population? If I was a spearer this would be the worst thing for me. I haven't heard a good solution for someone spearing to be able to fish with slot regulations. Its hard to be 100 percent certain as it has been said earlier in this thread. If every lake had a slot regulation it would probably kill there sport. I agree some lakes should have a slots but not a state wide regulation. I'm all for big pike and a firm beleiver in slots but I can't support a state wide slot. I also I don't think any of the existing lakes that have a slot now should be remove unless someone can prove the slot isn't working.

[merkman]

Merk, setting aside the fact that you've turned reductio ad absurdum into a full time occupation for a minute...

Mr Robb Kimm,

Can we ever have a discussion without it turning personal?

Thanks for your input.

[Nick Kuhn]

Are slots the only way to manage a healthy pike population? If I was a spearer this would be the worst thing for me. I haven't heard a good solution for someone spearing to be able to fish with slot regulations. Its hard to be 100 percent certain as it has been said earlier in this thread. If every lake had a slot regulation it would probably kill there sport. I agree some lakes should have a slots but not a state wide regulation. I'm all for big pike and a firm beleiver in slots but I can't support a state wide slot. I also I don't think any of the existing lakes that have a slot now should be remove unless someone can prove the slot isn't working.

Nah, 40" Minimum length limits with a bag of 1 has been shown to be a far better way to grow trophy pike than a slot limit.

[esoxhunter11]

Now I think some lakes do deserve special regulations. I think even people who spear would like to go to a lake that has a potential record fish, but it depends if you are hunting for a trophy or to eat. I think the entire state should have a 26" to 36" regulation with 1 over 36". I dont think there is anything wrong with spearing a 24" or smaller pike, in fact it probably helps the lake, the extra 2" should help with the margin of error. Some lakes still might have to have the 24" to 36", just like some lakes might have to have a 40" min.

Most people want pike to eat, and pike to show off in a photo. I read all the comments on this forum and the regulations I have listed above make sense to me. I would think most people would agree with them. I dont spear, I prefer to angle so I might be a little bias with my Ideas. The best I could do to accomidate to fisherman that spear is 26" to 36" even though personally I would have a 24" to 36" regulation put on myself. I would also release most fish over 40". I would be tempted to keep a big gator over 40" to mount, but I hope I would release. Maybe I will just wait to catch the new state record to mount it, Ha!

I am curious to know what you guys think the perfect regulations should be on Pike fishing. I almost should start a new blog, but I think enough people look at this one.

I especially want to hear from you spearing fisherman. I want to know what you think fair regulations would be that would also benefit the fishery. Maybe we can still come to some common ground.

[Muskiefool]

I just stated some information about on the latest known stats of slots, yes I'm proud to be a Muskies inc. member and even more proud of my MMA involvement to the fishery, that's not really breaking news.My best.

"Stay positive and never stop fighting for a better fishery". I just fallow the rules.

[cbrooks]

[quote=Nick Kuhn

40" Minimum length limits with a bag of 1 has been shown to be a far better way to grow trophy pike than a slot limit.

[solbes]

I've caught my biggest pike on lakes with the 40" slot. You have to give credit to the DNR for setting those regulations on those lakes.

I don't mind that slot, but a 24-40" protected seems to make more sense to me. I guess if the lake does not have a lot of spawning areas the 0-40" makes sense.

In spending 2 hours fishing a 0-40" lake, we boated a 35 incher so I do believe it works.

[merkman]

I especially want to hear from you spearing fisherman. I want to know what you think fair regulations would be that would also benefit the fishery. Maybe we can still come to some common ground.

The first step is admitting there is an issue that needs to be fixed with the current implementation of slot limits. Specifically as it pertains to the responsible harvesting of northern pike on the bottom of the slot via darkhouse spear.

You can't make solutions when 99% of the people involved deny that there is a problem.

Once you can get consensus there; then you can start talking about solutions to the problem.

Do you see the issue with the lower slot limit as it pertains to darkhouse spearers?

Do you think it needs to be fixed?

If you can’t answer yes to these two questions, then please don’t ask for solutions to a problem you don’t feel is there.