Circles + Live Bait = Flatheads

[Shack]

I recall about 3 years ago the Gama Octi circle hooks & live bait was (kind of) the rage going during the summer. Since then, it flipped over to the J style hooks being the presentation of choice.

I think we are in for a change once again.

People I know who fish for flats (on the forum or not on the forum) have been getting some very nice sized fish via circle hooks and bullies hooked via the back. These are shore & boat fisherman. "Point blank" last weekend (minus one flat which I can not honestly say was not caught on a circle. Did not ask ) all the flatheads I had seen boated came off of large circle hooks. It might just be a confidence thing & I am sure those who feel there is an unlearn-able learning curve with circles ain't going to change, but for me a 7/0-10/0 Gama Octi circle hooked cross-ways in the rear/upper spine area right now spells H-O-O-K U-P in my opinion.

I am not looking to change anyone's mind. I just feel the circle hook & live bait presentation has taken a bad rap over the years and I feeling it has its place among the flathead angler's options. Especially when things ain't going "your" way when it comes to runs and tags. Anyone else out their having or even using circles with live bait for flatheads? I will admit I had my doubts, but do vividly remember when it was the Go-To rigging for many in this forum. Anyone who has come on the scene recently, read back a couple years, formed an opinion based on postings about circles & live baits, is doing their selves a disservice (IMO) when leaving this presentation for "only" channels and cut.

What I have personally seen with the infamous hook-setting "learning" curve wrapped around the use of circles & live baits, is anything goes. People (myself included) will say swing to the left or right, upstream/downstream, straight up, load the tip & reel, do not do any hook-set of any kind, and many other things. What seems to work for one angler's situation might not work for another & at times either way will work in either angler's situation. I have seen very good flat anglers using circles & live baits get a slam/pull of their rod, load the tip, start reeling, & land a good sized flathead. I have seen other very good flat anglers using circles and live baits see a slam/pull of their rod, grab the the rod, give it a full blown onion style hook-set, & land a good sized flathead. I have seen this done with other style hook also. I have seen all hook styles fail to hook up in a textbook hook-set situation & I have seen many hook styles hook-up in a non-textbook situation. What I would like to say is, no one angler has the magic trick. I only know of one who has a routine down like downtown & the flatheads picture to back him, but someone could be in the same boat as him, doing the same thing, & still come up empty with missed fished. Call me crazy , but I would say "Back at ya" if you flat-out give up on a power option for flatheads.

Good luck!

[ducksnbucks]

Couldn't agree more. I have the same issue sturgeon fishing. We always used circle hooks until my buddy tried the J style hook, now he swears that is all a person should use. While fishing this spring the cirle outfished the J hook. I believe go with what you are confident in and keeps working until something changes or that method is costing you fish. Good luck!!

[mainbutter]

The problem with testing out a rig you only use for fish as uncommon as flatheads is that you don't get to practice very often.

I've done my fair share of saltwater fishing out of florida and texas. This genearlly means using circle hooks. With the good fishing to be had there (at least before the oil spill) I got to test out circle hooks pretty well.

One day I was fishing for small blacktip sharks and did a bit of trial and error. At first I did what I was told about circle hooks: Slowly tighten up the line after a bite. I caught fish, none threw the hook. Then after a while I switched to sending the hook home with a strong hookset. I started to lose fish, not on the hookset, but whenever they would jump. There was something about really sending the hook home with a strong swing that seemed to jeopardize the hold the hook had in the fish. I still caught fish that way, but there really seemed to be a statistically significant correlation between strong hooksets with circle hooks and losing some fish.

Here's the thing about circle hooks. Their benefit isn't in catch percentage. Their benefit is a general lack of gut-hooking, at least compared to J-hooks. That is the ENTIRE point of the circle hook. A side benefit is that you don't need a hookset swing to set the hook past the barb, so the technique I employ is a tight drag, strong rod holder, and by the time I get to the rod when I see it doubling over the fish has usually hooked itself already.

Flatheads seem generally robust and their anatomy seems to be somewhat protective against gut hooking. They engulf a bait, but the inside of a flat's head seems to be less danger-prone with a hook inside than most freshwater gamefish and plenty of saltwater gamefish that circle hooks were designed for. The free-spool, count to 10 after a bite, and set the J-hook style of fishing doesn't seem to gut hook flats the way it does with pike and musky. If it did, everyone in the cat forum would avoid J-hooks for fish mortality rates.

Another note: Gamakatsu octopus circle hooks are, IMO, NOT actual circle hooks. They are great bait holders, but their design is changed enough from the traditional circle hook (just do a google image search on circle hooks and compare them to gamakatsu octopus circles) that they don't do the job of hooking the corner of the mouth. I think it's the length or angle of the point in relation to the shank, but I can't be sure.

My $.02

[bobbymalone]

Circles are my go to for flats, chans, and every kind of roughfish that likes eating a gob of crawlers.

I miss some hits, especially the grab, quick run, drop kind of hits. If it is a good take, I certainly bat better than .750 with circles. I also have never gut hooked a cat with a circle. I gut hook sheephead on small circles sometimes, not sure why that is.

I think part of my success with circles is due to the fact that is how I started fishing for cats and didn't have to "unlearn" the J-hook method. On the other hand, "setting" a circle hook is sooooo easy I don't see how you can mess it up.

I also picked up some size 4 and 6 circles and tried soaking minnows in the 'sippi for walleye. Worked like a charm. Didn't miss a fish and everybody was hooked in the corner of the mouth.

BTW - I use gamakatsu's 95% of the time and I hook them in the corner of the mouth 95% of the time too.

[Shack]

It is a fact that there are many, many, many variations to the circle hook. I would say 99.9% (100% in recent fish caught channels & flats) that Gama Octi circles, when actively watching your rod & line, land on the corner of the jaw of the fish caught. This is my experience with flathead catfishing via shore & boat in Minnesota. I can only remember one flathead that was hooked with a 10/0 Gama Octi circle hook that was an official gut hook and the line was cut. This was on a line that was (although the angler was only feet from it) not grabbed until after the rod holder was shaking and making noise & the rod was doubled over.

Gamakatsu NS Black Octopus Circle Hook Inline Point

[Larry FlatCaster]

Ummmm..... that close to 40lbr you netted friday night was caught on a J hook... If I had been using a circle, that fish would have probably not been caught.

I don't disagree with circles.... I use them for channels, but when it comes to Flats.... there is nothing better than swinging for the fence and connecting!

If you are new to the sport.... go with circles, let the fish do the work and then you can blame it on the fish if they get loose.

[Gordie]

The problem with testing out a rig you only use for fish as uncommon as flatheads is that you don't get to practice very often.

The flathead is the only real game fish left in this state and thats all I practice on

I have caught some really nice cats on circle hooks this year but I still have to say that I like the J style hook better. not saying that the circles dont work but I'm more comfortable with the J's

[Larry FlatCaster]

People I know who fish for flats (on the forum or not on the forum) have been getting some very nice sized fish via circle hooks and bullies hooked via the back. These are shore & boat fisherman. "Point blank" last weekend (minus one flat which I can not honestly say was not caught on a circle. Did not ask ) all the flatheads I had seen boated came off of large circle hooks.

Shack... you got Gordy and I scratching our heads about now.... the two biggest fish you've had the chance to net in your recent history and your saying that we used circles?

You lost me somewhere.... sorry dude.

[harvey lee]

I use to use circle and have not for a couple years. My hooking percentage went up when the circles came off.

I have a bunch that will now collect dust and rust.

[Gordie]

I was useing a stright shank J style hook acctually I belive its a salt water trailer hook 10/0 hook that I got a good deal on. The rod that I caught that fish on had a circle hook on it but it was claimed to a snag an hour earlier so I almost caught it on a circle hook

[rushing]

I fished Gama octopus 8/0 circles exclusively from 2003-2008. One thing I learned is. Having the proper action rod has a lot to do with your hooking percentage especially when using a braid line. The softer the action the higher the percentage. Why? Well if you think about it, every inch your rod tip moves is how far your hook moves using braided line. For a circle hook to work as its intended it needs to slowly slide up and into the corner of the fishes mouth. The softer action rod tip slows how fast the hook moves. Using mono has the same effect since mono stretches. You really shouldn't be moving the rod tip at all during a "hook set", just lift your rod tip at about a 2 o clock position and just engage the reel, allowing the rod to bend and the fish will hook itself. If you have the right rod you can get a high hook percentage by leaving your reel engaged in the proper angle rod holder and the fish will hook itself.

Once I started using shorter faster action rods my hooking percentage dropped and I switched to using khale (hooks which are also much cheaper). Kinda half way between a circle and a J style and my hooking percentage jumped back up. I only lightly sweep the rod during a hooks set.

Its just the matter of having the right tool(rod)for the job.

[harvey lee]

If you would like some circles Rob, send me your address and I will send a bunch to you for no charge.

[email protected]

[Shack]

I was useing a stright shank J style hook acctually I belive its a salt water trailer hook 10/0 hook that I got a good deal on. The rod that I caught that fish on had a circle hook on it but it was claimed to a snag an hour earlier so I almost caught it on a circle hook

I had no clue what Larry was using on Friday. I guess that rules out Gordie. The way he was talking up his Fenwick with a circle that morning and then the flats that came, I just honestly "assumed" he still had a circle on. Well at least my flat was on a 7/0 circle with a bully Sunday. My fish on Friday was on the same setup (7/0 & bully), but it was a channel caught and not a flat. The one in avatar was caught last year on a 10/0 Gama Octi circle, but while using a bridle rig.

Other fishing partners I know that have caught decent flats last year and even this year use circles exclusively. Not out or preference, but necessity. 10/0 Gama Octi circles seem to be the easiest to run and get, verses having to buy from on-line like the Octi J's.

[Gordie]

I thought you saw me tie on that hook Shack but you coulda been busy re-hooking another bullie

[DTro]

Once again, Larry and Rob are spot on IMO.

Circles work great with the right action rod and circumstance, but for me it comes down hook gap and the size of a flats mouth and how much I like to set the hook on a big fish.

Kahles are a good compromise.

Only as a last resort will I use circles for flats.

[Scott K]

The only thing I have circle hooks for is to fill a slot in my tackle box, and to offer them all to riders in my boat. I cant even give these things away. I can honestly say if I am boat fishing, I wont use one ever again. If I am shore fishing and not paying close attention to my pole, then I will throw on a circle hook, and even then I tend to miss the majority of the hooksets. And, I very rarely shore fish, maybe 1-2 times a year.

[Shack]

Like I said, I am NOT TRYING TO CHANGE ANYONE'S MIND!

If you have "any" circle hooks to give away, my e-mail address is [email protected]. I will reimburse mailing/shipping costs and you never know when a favor from me might come in handy.

I am only using circles this year. That's it. Personally I have seen too many good hook-ups when using J's come unbutton 3-5 seconds after the fight started. I know now of at least two more from last weekend. They seemed like big fish until the "Uhhhh!" occurred.

[Shack]

I thought you saw me tie on that hook Shack but you coulda been busy re-hooking another bullie

That little issue came on my J-hook rod.

It was more of line issue though after we un-anchored to move and un-snaged my line and we ran into trouble while my bale was closed. Never did cast well even after letting out even 3/4 of the spool.

When I switched at that next spot to my "um" "um" "um" circle hook rod, what happened with in seconds Gordie?

[DTro]

Confidence over rules everything

Even it it happens to be a pill bottle or a peanut butter jar.

[Shack]

Quote:

Confidence over rules everything

I do agree. For finding feeding fish, no. That takes majority luck and the rest knowledge I guess. For hooking-up with feeding fish after they bite, yes. Confidence IMO is a huge part of it.

It is a funny thing when you go to set the hook, have self doubt or rethink, over think, and rethink again, that can translate into a missed fish. I think flathead catfishing is a lot like ML baseball. Pretty much they all have the same bat and use the same ball (edit: but have their little twists), they are all good at what they do, but some are better at times than others. Some shine this week and others the next. Some shine this year, while others shine the following year. Some players go years without a home run, but put the time into being good players, while others come out of the box cracking homers every week. Some never make it and are forced back down to the minors, while finding them selves 3-4 years later over in Japan wondering what happened. I hope you get my point.

[Larry FlatCaster]

I here by dub thee ........ "Circle Lover Shack" From this day forward you will be known as the lover of all Circle Hooks

[bobbymalone]

I here by dub thee ........ "Circle Lover Shack" From this day forward you will be known as the lover of all Circle Hooks

How about calling him the "Circle Jerk".... oh wait that's something else altogether

[Shack]

I declare this Shack's spring/summer of circle love.

Ah who am I fooling. We all end of changing are tunes by August anyways.

[Brad B]

Shack,

I may take some ribbing for this but I to have gone to using circles on everything. yes the hook up percentage may be less but the fish that stay hooked are better fish and are hooked in the corner of the mouth. I have been using circles for bluegills now and have had only 3 gut hooks out of maybe 50 fish. when I used j hooks on the blue gills the rate was like 15+ out of 50. circles have made a difference to me. I plan to try circles for walleyes on mille lacs sometime this month or next if all goes right. the only thing I have as a issue with circles for the walleyes is that I don't know of any company that makes a glow in the dark circle so I was thinking of getting some of that glow in the dark powder paint for lures and dip some circles in it and see how they work.

[bobbymalone]

I plan to try circles for walleyes on mille lacs sometime this month or next if all goes right.

based on my experiences with walleyes on the river, I think a circle hook would work great on a lindy rig.