deer seasons ending-question-do you think your permit zone should

[laker1]

stay the same or change. I hunt 172 and I think that zone should go lottery. Deer numbers are way down. What about your zone and opinion ?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I would like to see a lot of the managed areas move away from bonus permits and just allow the one tag to be either sex. I'm sure a lot of does will still get taken out, but not near as many as with bonus tags, I think. I think that would be something a lot of folks would support?????

[SledNeck]

Id like to see the rifle season pushed back a week and end the weekendish of thanksgiving

[featherslayer 1]

i would like to see the season take place before rifle season and have it either sex tag, and if used you can not buy a rifle tag. just my 2 cents worth

[jnorm1984]

Hunt "kinda" all over the place, but primarily hunt 281 in SW MN, since that's where I get to hunt private land (Dads farm), Its currently lottery, but I tend to see a lot a deer down there, a lot of does for sure, but I get to hunt pretty good land. I would be happy if it would stay lottery, but I wish they could change some part of the law so a guy could shoot 2 deer without "beggin" some one to go huntin with ya. Maybe like an early antlerless bow tag? Or just have the archery tag completely separate from the gun seasons, so you could gun hunt and have a tag if you filled out archery- Im still for one buck only tho..

[Musky Buck]

My newest fear in pushing the season back is some have already dropped a shed buck. I don't think the results would be what we think they'd be, we get that idea from other states like Iowa that probably have half the firearms hunters we have, for them it works well. My area is way down as I know of 3 farms that no longer sustain a wintering herd as in years past. Our deer have never seen this kind of pressure. Went from a 2 day or 4 day rifle season to 9 days plus every hunter can muzzleload or archery hunt if they can "save" the almighty tag. Baiting is a major problem. People filling the wives or whoevers tags they use on the first barrage of deer, it's just all catching up and each little thing is part of why numbers aren't what they were not so many years ago. The 2 W's wolves and winter also. But, our state is very diverse and it will be difficult for overhunted/pressured areas to recover because I didn't see any tree stands getting ripped down, no I saw even more go up this fall and we all want to fill a tag so time will tell, I hope they come back, but the pressure on them is very intense in the areas I hunt. Definitely a down year as our local paper had very few decent deer pictures this year where a few years back there were pages of good deer. Time will tell. It can rebound. My rifle/muzzy went out 21 times, 5 separate stands, saw deer 4 times so shut out 17 times hunting 3 farms and about 1,000 acres to my lonesome. Now muzzy hunting 2 of 3 farms have zero deer or tracks unless some moved in this week which isn't very likely and the other farm had a doe and fawn track only. These farms have river/creeks/standing corn/alfalfa and good red willow,grass,cattails,trees etc. and when you've hunted something since 1983 and scouted/trailcams etc. and you get the drift on what's around.We drove them like a blanket. Way down certainly. I'd like to see the season split you go first weekend or the 2nd like old zone 4 was.

[Archerysniper]

I hunt 227 and 225 a intensive area with the early doe season I would like it if the early doe season was dropped or switch it to a youth only hunt and drop the tags down to a buck/doe tag and 1 bonus the deer are still around here but there are pockets were the herd has taken a big hit with the 7 deer a year I find myself scouting more too find the higher deer densities

[96trigger]

Things were good in my area, even with all the corn. I think a managed area is the "target population" for the Minnesota deer herd.

I like that I can shoot two deer a season and then move somewhere else if I would like to shoot another. Thumbs up to the DNR for whats going on right now.

[laker1]

I also like it when I can shoot two deer, but many areas can't support it and are deer herds are decreasing in some areas. Ask the average hunter and look at the posts. Some people are hunting many days just to see one deer now. maybe we are ransoming future deer hunting prospects by liberal seasons ? Good discussions let'ts keep it going and I see a lot of hits on this discussion but we need more input from others.

[NoWiser]

I hunted 172 the third weekend, and there was no shortage of deer in our area of public land we hunt. From what I saw, it could stay managed, but from the reports I've read here, I wouldn't doubt if it goes lottery. The first two weekends I hunted a more remote managed permit area, and also saw enough deer that I think it could handle another year being managed.

I also like the idea of the 1 either-sex tag rather than either lottery, or managed. I think that would be a good middle ground if an area has a lot of small (3-4) person parties. The party I used to hunt with until this year has a ton (around 20) people in it and hunt with a 100% brown-its-down attitude (part of the reason I split off). With that many people they don't buy bonus tags anyways, just count on having enough open with the big party. The ONLY thing that will limit their deer take would be changing it to a lottery area. Overall I am very happy with how the DNR is managing the herd, and believe a mixture of managed and lottery areas is what we should be shooting for.

[BeezeHound]

I hunt 239, wish it was back to 2 split seasons instead of the 9 days we have now. When the 9 day season first passed I have to admit I loved it, got me out of work for a week and the more time a guy can spend on stand the better the odds for seeing something special. I have since changed my attitude. During the split season days I would see deer out and about at random times, telling me they feel they're not being pressured too much. With the 9 day season it only takes until about Wednesday before the daytime deer activity totally shuts down and hardly a deer is spotted after that.

[Harmonica Bear]

I hunt 205 and the deer herd is down (at least at our place), but I beleive that is what the DNR wants in general; a much smaller deer population. We can shoot 5, is that overkill? Probably, but we've never, ever remotely come close to that. Couldn't even dream it. I think the biggest thing that needs to change (not to bring up something thats been hashed over and over) is baiting and its enforcement and/or stiffer penalties.

[winterwalleye]

hunted area 184 and not many deer. should be 1 deer only and ITASCA PARK should only be 1 also. ITASCA was intensive harvest this year, what a joke , no deer

[Musky Buck]

I'm with ya beezehound in Ottertail county, I was way opposed to zone 2 realizing 9 days with near unlimited tags for those that do it that way, the old zone 4 was enough rifle pressure and having people split up it made for more daylight movement plus less days of pressure with a 5 day pressure free window for rutting etc., much more. In my area by Sunday night daylight movement what little there even is opening weekend is basically done. Most of the deer by then know the pressure is on, they can see it, hear it, and really smell it. It makes sense to me. Just drive around the section you hunt in, then the neighboring sections and you'll know why there is little daylight movement in many areas.

[heat checker]

I would like to see the gun season moved back at least a week. As a bowhunter (I also slug hunt), I feel I am getting the short end of the stick when it comes to "quality" deer stand time. Think about it- the short initial suprise of opener, Oct isn't the best as most bucks go nocturnal, that leaves MAYBE half a week when the rut starts to wind up before the mobs come in,shoot the little bucks and make the rest go nocturnal again. Unless you hunt in a wintering area, your last good chance is the eve before slug opener.

As for the Youth Only Permit areas where I hunt, they basically hung targets on the young bucks. I would rather have been turned down for a slug tag than have slaughter of the young bucks. At least the smokepole hunters couldn't shoot every doe they saw like in past years, which, IMO is why population is so low to begin with.

[Musky Buck]

heat checker a big haaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaa? I'll only comment on smokepole hunters shooting every doe, it takes about 15 years worth of it to compare to a single rifle season, muzzy guys get a chance at what's left after bow and rifle have thinned them out and what's left is often a very nocturnal colder than cold hunt. I didn't ask for the chance to muzzy hunt after rifle, that ruined my dad's hunt as he was one of those 10,000 diehards that forgo rifle to have some semblance of a peaceful hunt knowing it would be very difficult to take any deer and he never did get one. I don't feel too much bow pity as you usually have about 55 days you can bow hunt before rifle begins, hit that time period hard and go acorn to alfalfa to corn if you can. I do hear what you are saying, pressure is intense and it changes deer movement rapidly. How we going to fix that ?

[lakevet]

Muzzy hunters were a non-issue until the DNR changed the rules. When muzzy hunters first tried to get a muzzy only season, the DNR said they would kill too many deer. After a few trial hunts in state parks, etc. the DNR was convinced that muzzy hunters would not negatively impact the deer population. This was when everyone had to get doe permits and doe permits were few and far between. Even with a deer population much lower than today, the DNR didn't care how many deer they shot because there were so few muzzy hunters. And the muzzy hunters were happy because they eagerly gave up prime hunting during the rut with modern firearms in exchange for peace and quiet, unpressured (but shell shocked/spooky and fewer) deer, nasty weather, about 16 hrs less hours of shooting light with the shorter days, and no hunter conflict/competition/access problems. Once you could hunt regular firearms AND muzzy things went downhill. My understanding is the DNR looked at muzzy season as another tool to reduce deer population and wanted more muzzy hunters so more deer would be shot. Also muzzleloading companies like the bankrupt Knight Rifles pushed for more muzzy seasons/hunters. (Let's see 50,000 more muzzy hunters at $250 a muzzleloader is $12,5000,000 in sales). Ironic since originally muzzy hunters had to fight with the DNR to convince them that Muzzy season would not impact the low deer population that was present at that time. Once convinced muzzy hunters would not be a factor in over harvest, muzzy hunters were allowed to take any deer statewide for 16 days. Never any issues with over harvest . Now a few short years after the DNR took steps to recruit muzzy hunters from the ranks of the regular firearms hunters, muzzy is being blamed for taking too many does/deer and crashing the population. Don't blame us long time muzzy hunters, we didn't want the change. Go back to having people choose firearms OR muzzy. Unfortunately, the DNR has stuffed the ballot box on this by letting those who have muzzy as their second choice make up 50,000+ of the 60,000+ muzzy hunters. Those who have muzzy as their first choice are only about 10,000. The DNR could reverse the rules in the permit areas , have hunters choose firearms or muzzy and muzzy would return to the non harvest issue it was previously instead of having muzzy hunters draw doe permits. Everyone can't do every season all the time. Minnesota doesn't have enough deer or land for that to be sustainable in the long run and just creates problems in the short run. I hope Lou is reading this.

lakevet

[JimmyJames]

I hunt 170, it should be a lottery area, never should of been anything else.The last good year we had was 4 years ago.I don't understand any areas up north bein intensive or managed.

[heat checker]

LakeVet, where are these 50,000-60,000 muzzy hunters? Are they part of the all season license? Just checked DNR site, 2000-2006 had an average of 10,900 license sales staying pretty much level throught out the 7 years. Also added up the success rates. 38.8% for muzzy, 37.5% for reg firearms as averages for the 7 yrs. Why do you think the success rate was so high for muzzy hunters? They could shoot anything they wanted. Bowhunters success average in the low 20's. Why so good with stick&string? Cause we(I) can shoot anything I want! Point is, DNR dropped the ball and let too many people shoot does, and thats why the pop has dropped.

On a side note, anyone think that farming practices has anything to do with the drop in population? (Larger machines, capable of taking food source,cover, and making it black in a very short time period)

[lakevet]

heat checker,

You are looking at the number of muzzy only licenses which were the group of hunters who only hunted muzzy season and did not participate in the all season option. Highest total harvest before the all season was started was 4,548 deer by 11,972 muzzy only hunters in 2000. Then all season started and harvest increased to a peak of 15,421 in 2005. You need to add in the estimated number of all season licenses that muzzy hunted. In 2008 when the DNR quit the all season and went to allowing purchase of regular firearms and muzzy license by one hunter, we got a true number of muzzy hunters. In 2008 there were 64,673 muzzy licenses sold. A 600% increase. Can you imagine if the archery or regular firearms season had a 600% increase in hunters numbers and how that would change the character of the hunt, land access, type and number of deer you could harvest? There would be riots at the DNR. Ironically the success rate for muzzy hunters in 2008 was 13.4%. Worst ever. Way lower than archery and other firearms seasons. Shot 9,572 deer out of the 200,000+ deer harvested by hunters. My opinion is newbies learning curve and the even more pressured deer in muzzy season are harder to hunt. So far this year we are having our second worst muzzy season in our many years of muzzy hunting. Quality of hunt is down primarily because of the spike of more muzzy hunters in our area. When you see 20+ muzzy hunters in an area where you used to see 0 to 2, it affects the enjoyment of our hunt, decreased access, having deer bumped repeatedly by hunters moving through trying to scout in season as all the media tells them to do, and having everyone concentrate and camp on any good trail/limited food source obvious in the snow or driving that spot, spooking the deer out to another area/food source (bait pile?) and they don't come back for the rest of muzzy season because they are conserving energy. It will be interesting to see what the success rate is this year. The dramatic drop in success rate is another indicator of how the muzzy hunt has been degraded by recent regulation changes.

You are right about the muzzy license numbers being stable for years (around 10,000). It was a group of hunters that wanted a primitive hunt with challenging conditions and low hunter density. They had minimal impact on deer population because they were few in number and the DNR knew it would stay that way. Most hunters would not give up the rut hunt with a modern weapon. Muzzleloaders were a dedicated group of hard core hunters who knew their craft well. Then the DNR wanted a higher kill by muzzy hunters to help bring deer populations down, so they made changes. In my opinion it helped some but not much with population control, but the tradeoff is a small group of hunters with little political clout who developed and participated in a unique hunt that was close to what our ancestors experienced in many ways and could be enjoyed on public land had their season used for other purposes and without any consideration for the experience of the hunt or the hunters who worked to establish muzzy season and were willing quit regular (rut hunt) firearms season to hunt muzzy and get away from the headaches of higher hunter densities. I have heard the term"hijacked" used to describe what has happened to the muzzy season.

lakevet

[laker1]

lakevet interesting post. It would be interesting what permit zone you hunted and others when you post. That really does not give away your hunting spot. It is nice if people can compare their thoughts on the hunt and zone they hunt and come up with whatever conclusion. Along with less deer seen from most of the posts, I wonder if they are seeing less bigger or older does(a sign the anterless deer are being cropped down) and less bigger bucks in their area ?

[BLACKJACK]

As a non-muzzleloader hunter but avid deer hunter, I'm wondering how much affect the new, easier to use muzzleloaders has on more people picking up muzzleloading? I've talked to guys that have bought muzzleloaders, shot it for an hour, they could hit at 75 yards, and went hunting.

I think the DNR opened up the muzzleloading season to provide hunters with more opportunity (time in the field) to hunt, not to reduce deer numbers. The one thing that I don't like about the longer muzzleloader season and more muzzleloader hunters is that it keeps the deer spooked, more guys out hunting them and lobbying shells at them. But fair is fair, considering how long the bow season is, 16 days for muzzleloading is ok.

Back to the original question, I primarily hunt 277 and see a lot of deer, I'd like to see it moved from lottery to managed. Then I could shoot that early doe and keep on hunting with my bow. There are a lot of deer around where I hunt, but since its lottery, I'm more inclined to shoot a small buck and let the does reproduce. Hopefully, eventually the DNR in this area will see the light (more deer).

[juniordo1]

JimmyJames,

I also primarily hunt 170. Our group usually does OK. The last three years have been tough. When 170 was intensive the guys on public land next to us harvested a lot of deer. We were letting little bucks and fawns go and they were blasting them.

To each their own, it's their tag and they are welcome to use it but it has really changed the deer population and movement in and out of the private land we hunt. Combined with the feeders in yards adjacent to our hunting land, the number of mature bucks we have seen in the last few years has been reduced.

Prior to 170 going managed and then intensive and back to managed, we use to get some really nice bucks and some nice big does. They seem to be fewer and farther between.

This year I hunted 170 and 178 and saw a total of 13 deer and did not put one on the ground. I hunted with my bow, rifle, and muzzy. Last year I hunted 170, rifle only, and only saw 7 deer and shot the only adult deer I saw.

I am in favor of 170 going lottery, at least for a few years to help the population and then never past managed.

[Musky Buck]

I'd like to see old zone 4 again. Split up the pressure. MB

[Musky Buck]

juniordo, not pointing at you a finger but you made a great point maybe unknowingly, you shot the only adult deer you saw, that is turning into many's mentality, where we had many deer days, now people that never were in that crowd are now shooting the only adult deer they see meaning like if 3 come out the biggest is targeted first and now that is what it is, people used to bucks only more first weekend, then does, then brown down to finish the season. I rarely see a real doe anymore meaning I don't consider fawns does and boy are there some sad lonely cold fawns in groups out in fields looking way lost and no where near where they should be for winter. They don't know where the wintering grounds are and there are places with no does to help lead them there. Maybe a statewide zone 4 would be ideal to split up the hunters. I think like me first weekend 2 day hunter I didn't feel jealous the 2nd weekend gang got 4 days and I don't think they felt jealous that we had 1st crack at them because we only had 2 days, seemed win win for either choice. I'd like to see a bucks only like 1983 was, 3 days opening was bucks only, the 2nd weekend was 2 days of either sex with most drawing a doe tag. That bucks only really helped build the doe population. But, whatever is in place for next year's opener won't change my mature buck or bust approach however i can't expect a great season because so few yearling bucks make it to 2.5 and then to make it to 3.5 and up, but a guy can hope for one.