Flasher Question

[Agronomist_at_IA]

I've researched flashers on my own and have a question for the experts.

I understand that the higher end flashers have more power allowing for fishing deeper water with a crisper view. How deep of water would you need to fish to have this show a real difference between a Vex FL8se & a FL18. or a Marcum Vx-1 to LX3tc? If a guy fished 30 foot depths or less 99.9% of the time is there much reason to have a high end flasher?

Right now after looking at everything, I'm thinking the Marcum Vx1 pro is the best unit for the money, I'd like to buy the Vex Fl8se, but since it doesn't have the zoom and the Marcum vx1 does I'm thinking the Vx1 is the better unit.

[marine_man]

I'm not an expert, but here's my .02 cents...

While there are certainly benefits to having more power, I don't think you're going to see a significant difference between the two because of power, given the depths you usually fish.

The bigger difference will be the features (zoom vs no zoom, etc) in my opinion.

marine_man

[Agronomist_at_IA]

That's kind of what I thought. That's why the VX1 pro with the zoom is very attractive to me right now.

[Surface Tension]

I had a long post I was ready to submit but instead I'll say. Your not going to see a lot of difference within the same brand. As you go up in models so do the the added features and that is what is most important.

[Northlander]

If you fish in 30' and under most of the time and dont fish a lot of weed growth the LX-1 is a good unit to start out with. Lots of good features for a unit of that price.

I fished with a old Vex FL-8 for many years and caught a lot of fish. Where I found my LX-5 shines is in deeper water or on sharp breaks, large rock areas and in weedy areas.

I guess I would go with the highest end one you can afford. You can never have too much of a flasher, its like HP on a boat.

[crappiebuster]

I use the zoom anytime im fishing 10+ fow. Get a flasher with zoom even if you dont think youll use it that often.

[PerchJerker]

Unless you're fishing really deep water (which you're not doing according to what you said), I would ignore the output power and choose a flasher based on features (like zoom) or brand or anything else that is important to you ..... and don't worry about the power output.

[WinterHaven]

One thing that you will notice with more power is the target seperation of the fish. Even though you are fishing at the depths that you are, you will notice a little difference with this.

[Ed Carlson]

In the MarCum line of flashers the VX-1 is my personal favorite unit.

The lower power is a plus in my view, and the features are workable and useful. I would like it even better if it also had a LP Low Power mode to help eliminate unwanted target returns and enhance shallow water performance and open water use.

The VX-1 is a solid unit and a bargain price wise in a flasher package.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

Well, I've done some research........now I don't want to start a Vexilar vs. Marcum debate, but the numbers seem to speak for themselves.

FL-8se

Target ID of down to 1"

Interference Rejection technology with 10 step adjustment

Six depth ranges** (20, 30, 40, 60, 80, 120)

Frequency: 200 kHz

Display resolution: 525 segments

Power output: 400 watts peak-to-peak (50 watts RMS)

FL-12

Flat-screen Display

10 interference rejection settings

Five depth ranges down to 200 feet plus Low Power range option

Frequency: 200 kHz

Power output: 400 watts peak-to-peak (50 watts RMS)

Display resolution: 525 segments

Depth Range: Maximum 200 ft.

FL-18

Auto Zoom Mode (AZ) - Gives a half screen zoom window of the bottom six feet of depth.

Bottom Lock Mode (BL) - Works the same as Auto Zoom, but locks the bottom

Low Power Mode (LP) - Reduces the output power by 50%.

Five Depth Ranges - The Standard FL-18 includes 20', 40', 60', 80', and 200 foot ranges. The Deep Range unit includes 30', 60', 90', 120', and 300 foot ranges.

Interference Rejection -ten different

High Resolution Display: 525 Bits

Five Depth Scales: 20', 40', 60', 80', and 200' *

Exclusive Interference Rejection: 10 Step

Power and Sensitivity: 400 Watts Peak-to-Peak

Target Separation: 2.65"

FL-20

10 interference rejection settings

Five depth ranges down to 200 feet, plus 20´

Low Power mode

6 foot and 12 foot Auto Zoom Ranges

Target ID of less than 1/2"

525 segments of resolution

400 watts peak-to-peak (50 watts RMS)

Depth Range: Maximum 200 ft.

VX-1 Sonar Ice System

6 interference rejection

bottom zoom feature that automatically locks on bottom: 5' in 20-ft and 40-ft scale, 10' in 80-ft scale, and 20' in 160-ft scale

1000 watts of peak-to-peak power

LX-3tc Ice System

2,000 watts of peak to peak power.

adjustable Zoom Mode that allows the user to choose between a 5 or 10 foot Zoom window in the 20 & 40 ft scale or choose between a 10 or 20 foot Zoom window in the 80 scale & a 20 or 40 Zoom window in the 160 foot scale. The Zoom window can be moved anywhere between the surface and bottom.

twelve level “Interference Rejection” feature.

LX-5 Ice System

2,500 watts of peak to peak power.

comes standard with a dual beam transducer. To switch between the 8 and 20 degree cone angle is as simple as the touch of a key.

The unit has a patented twelve level “Interference Rejection”

The LX-5 incorporates a patented movable zoom feature that allows the user to zoom in on a segment of water anywhere within the water column.

This unit also features another of MarCum Technologies latest break throughs, SuperFine Line. The SuperFine Line feature allows the user to improve the units resolution resulting in target separation down to .75 inch.

Just looking at this data,it looks to me like Marcum's units have quite a bit more power, and offer more options to the ice fisherman at a lower cost vs. vexilar for the units. Now, am I reading this right?

[Ed Carlson]

You have omitted a few key features on the FL 20...flat screen display...wide angle viewing...all season use...day/night mode, active power management low voltage cue indicator... but you got the general idea of the various key features on the units you critiqued.

It's up to you now, buy what fits your needs.

[Esox_Magnum]

I have owned or used all the units you listed except the VX-1. Heres my take, last year my wife decides she wants a flasher for fishing eyes after dark. I found a great deal on a FL-18. First day out with it was the FM Boji outing on West Okoboji. Water was murky last year so even in the shallow weeds we needed a flasher. I get her set up and fishing with her new toy, turn on my LX-5, after about 5 minutes of questions from her about what she's looking at and me trying to explain she watches mine for a minute and said I understand what yours is ding but not mine. She describes it as watching a blur on hers, ( yes it was set up properly, working correctly ect ect) and mine was nice and crisp and showing fish hers wasn't even on low power mode( we could see some fish below us) She finaly said I want want you got so now she has the old LX and I got a new one.

I fish next to a FL-20 and while the night thing is nice and the flatscreens cool I can still mark fish that he don't. Don't get me wrong he catches fish to but for 2 years now I still hear I wish I had one of those, and now that I have 2 LX's he seems to borrow mine when he's fishing with me.

I don't understand why a 400 watt unit needs low power mode when my 2500 watts can see easily in the weeds in shallow water.

Agronomist your welcome by my shack anytime to see the FL-20 and LX-5 side by side and make up your own mind.

I take my fishing to the extreme and try and buy the best equipment on the market and from my personal experience I think the Marcum line right now is the best. If Vex or Birds make something better in the future I'll use that.

[Lure Lightning]

we have used the humming bird flashers, vexilar, and marcum and all of us on our team seem to have the same conversations and i would not say we have found one clear winner as each of them have some great features. we all think that the flat screen, wide angle and the day/night mode on the vex are great features. as are the adjustable zoom and power on the marcums. as far as seperation is concerned each have had times where one seemed better then the other.

[Surface Tension]

As Esox_Magnum pointed out and I have done a many times, you don't need Low Power Mode on a MarCum. Way different technology and more modern then Vex which is using the same technology as the FL8 with added features to their "new" models. I'm not saying Vex isn't a good flasher because it is good. I'm saying you absolutely need the Low Power Mode for Vex and not MarCum.

A very simple example. Turn your Vex on in shallow water and turn the gain down to it lowest setting. What you'll often see is your lure marked as red hot. If there are weeds they'll mark as red hot. You don't want that so you turn on LP mode. Now your able to look past the weeds and to the bottom. Adjust your gain accordingly.

Turn your MarCum on in shallow water with gain at lowest setting. You might not even mark the bottom, and for sure won't be blocked out by weeds. Slowly turn your gain till you mark bottom. Continue to turn your gain till you mark weeds. As the weeds first start to show they will mark as fine yellow line. You will see bottom as red, any fish that travels between the bottom or within the weeds will be marked and so will your lure. That is what your looking for as far as gain control. If you continue to increase the gain the weeds will change to green, if you go too high with the gain the weeds will mark hot red and your flasher will think the weeds are bottom. As you can see there is no need for LP Mode, MarCum flashers were designed to not need it.

Now back to why the MarCum was showing fish and FL18 wasn't.

I think you should have been in LP mode because any fish entering the cone angle were over ridden by big hot red weeds and lure. If you decreased the Vex's signal with the suppression of LP mode you'd be able to see through the weeds.

[Ed Carlson]

What you neglected to mention about the Vexilar LP mode is it also reduces or eliminates as per your needs the undesirable clutter caused by micro biological target returns (AKA Bug Farts) and other tiny round targets under the ice and on open water such as bubbles or suspended debris.

I find the Vexilar LP mode an indispensable feature for open water and on ice use on rivers and lakes to eliminate this unwanted clutter. Where as high power units find it very difficult to accomplish this, if at all. On higher power units you very often can not turn the gain down far enough to eliminate the undesirable returns and clutter and still maintain a good signal return on your desired targets.

Power and gain can work for you, or it can work against you, it is the ability to adjust for it and retain desired useful target return information that defines flexibility and performance in a flasher unit.

The theology of more power has been rethought in modern sonar circles. As in Lowrance for example, the once operated at 8000 watts, but now the new High Definition units, the HD's, they now operate at only Max 250W Peak to Peak (31W RMS) actual to achieve better target ID, higher resolution, less noise, and far less clutter.

[half-dutch]

I could kick myself for missing the sellout on the old VX-1 model last year before they kicked up the power on the new version. I got an FL-12, too, but that is for company. I prefer the beatup old VX-1 with the split screen (bottom lock), and the wide cone. The FL-12 has the narrow cone. They actually work pretty well close together, allowing a pair of fishermen to compare notes from the slightly different reads. I usually set the interference rejection on the Marcum, which allows us to fish the flashers close enough to be at about an arm's length apart. IOW both of us can work the same spot on the spot over a crappie school. If you think one person on a hot school of crappies is something, you ought to be part of a team working one!

I prefer the Marcum and see no need for me to upgrade the VX-1, but I would recommend that before buying anything one rent or test the various units to find what feels best. If you don't like the feel, whatever you get will have stikes against it from the get go. Either one is way better than nothing, by a huge margin.

[Esox_Magnum]

Her 18 was on LP mode and she still had problems understanding it. Even I had problems reading it and I have been using flashers since the days of the Lowrance green box's.

[Surface Tension]

Ed, your giving a simple item more credit then it deserves.

"S-Cable

The S-Cable reduces the output power of the Vexilar sonar by 50% to allow clear readings in extremely shallow water. It helps reduce clutter from debris in weedy conditions too. Installation is as simple as plugging it into your transducer jack, then plugging your transducer into the other end of the S-Cable.

Features

* Reduce output power for improved shallow water depth readings

* Compatible with all Vexilar depth finders.

* Hand built in the USA"

Low Power mode does the exact same thing the S cable does by cutting the power by %50.

That is all it does "reduce output power by %50" and the reason for that is because when gain is set to "0" in shallow water or when there are suspended particles they show up hot. In short the S cable and Low Power Mode is a fix specifically for Vex.

Many years ago it was common to see the Suppression control along with gain in older soundness. Technology has changed tremendously since then.

Fast forward to today, there simply is no need for suppression with new technology. Mind you Vex is still based on the old FL8 with added features.

[Ed Carlson]

I'm very familiar with and aware of it's uses and various capabilities. I have been working with Vexilar units for well over 35 years. The credit I have given it is based on personal experience over that time.

In short, my observation is, it makes situations were sonar readings become challenging or difficult more user friendly and effective.

[Agronomist_at_IA]

Well, I guess I'm looking at price for the units and what options they come with. I'm really leaning towards a Marcum lx-3tc from last year that is on clearance for $300 shipped. Now this last year model has 1,500watts of power then new has 2,000waatts of power, but I don't think the additonal power would be needed for me. For the Money it seems like the most power, options, and quality flasher for the money that I can find right now. I just can't seem to push myself to purcahse it though, because I keep thinking that there is going to be a deal on a good flasher come closer to the begining of the season.