Management Question for Lou

[InTheSchool]

Can the DNR break down hunter success within the three types of management zones (lottery, management, intensive harvest)? How many deer are shot per hunter in each type? I wonder if there is really much difference? Thanks!

[USPENAMC]

I personally think that just because an intensive harvest lets someone harvest 5 deer total i dont think many fill all those tags. for example the last 3 years my brother my father and I have hunted an intensive hunting area during rifle we got 2 deer total the first year second year was 1 deer and 3rd year was 1 deer between 3 people.

my brother and I went to a management area BOW and got one deer the 1st day thats it.

It would be great to see some results but we would need to all submit some sort of inquiry. I am sure it can be done but there will be alot of people that might not supply the CORRECT info because they might want to creat some deceipt on whether an area is fruitful enough. I think this action hurts us more than helps us. It gives the wrong numbers on different areas.

[lcornice]

Can the DNR break down hunter success within the three types of management zones (lottery, management, intensive harvest)? How many deer are shot per hunter in each type? I wonder if there is really much difference? Thanks!

Yes, it can be done but it gets a little muddy because you can hunt pretty much statewide with any license. In total, 90% of firearm hunters kill a deer in the area they hunt most often but archers (and perhaps muzzy hunters) move around a little more than gun hunters. In other words, I can account for probably 85% of all deer harvest and the remaining 15% would be a 'best guess'. I do think I posted the various percentages (statewide) some time ago but I haven't gone back to look. If memory serves me, about 96% of hunters kill 2 deer or less. Functionally, there's not much difference between managed and intensive in terms of total deer harvest. In fact, a system of 'early antlerless + managed' (which we don't do) would likely be result in more anterless deer taken than simply designating it as 'intensive'.

As for deceit, we know there are a small percentage of people who don't register their deer. However, having worked plenty of check stations I think the number is small. What you do see are registrations without the deer present. In other words, someone comes in with a handful of registration stubs and walks out with possession tags. While not legal, the deer is still counted in the harvest. Certainly, there is abuse out there with 'spouse tags' and adults shooting antlerless deer using their kids' license but again, those deer generally get registered too.

Having said all that, I think you ask an interesting question. If I get some time, I'll try and tease out deer harvest/hunter by area.

[BucksnDucks]

I would like to hear what its like in the 154, 157 area?

[Berens Lake ON]

Lou- I see guys walk into registration stations with 2 or more tags and register deer for their wife, daughter, buddy... but I don't see the game wardens around (should I call TIP or doesn't wildlife care if it happens?). Don't we want the CO's working around the registration stations?

[96trigger]

Quote:

Lou- I see guys walk into registration stations with 2 or more tags and register deer for their wife, daughter, buddy... but I don't see the game wardens around (should I call TIP or doesn't wildlife care if it happens?). Don't we want the CO's working around the registration stations?

Whenever I have registered a deer, they always use my drivers license to do it and I just assumed that I had to be there in person to do it. It is not the CO's that need to be there. Its the regestration stations that need to be held more accountable. Problem is, even if it starts to get enforced, they will still just work their way around it, they break the law one way or the other. I like the fact that some stations don't go out and look at the deer when it is registered, I would love to be able to register them online in the future. Again, those that are going to break the law will do it regardless of when and where. The honest ones will continue to be honest.

I also think we need the CO's in the field, not at the registration stations. There are not enough to do both, and their are way too many registration stations to cover them all. Just think about what you are asking. Do we want our tag prices to triple to pay for more CO's???

[Jameson]

I would much rather have the CO's in the field trying to catch night poachers than patrolling the gas stations trying to catch people for registering deer that aren't theirs. At least those deer are getting registered. I also would LOVE to see online registering. Those that aren't registering deer will continue to not, and those that do would have another option to do so.

Back to the original topic....I think I stated somewhere else I think the break down would turn out .6 deer per hunter in Lottery, .8 deer per hunter in Managed, and 1 deer per hunter in Intensive. Just my best guess.

[96trigger]

You are probably pretty close.

[lcornice]

I would much rather have the CO's in the field trying to catch night poachers than patrolling the gas stations trying to catch people for registering deer that aren't theirs. At least those deer are getting registered. I also would LOVE to see online registering. Those that aren't registering deer will continue to not, and those that do would have another option to do so.

Back to the original topic....I think I stated somewhere else I think the break down would turn out .6 deer per hunter in Lottery, .8 deer per hunter in Managed, and 1 deer per hunter in Intensive. Just my best guess.

Ugh ... as if I don't have anything better to do ... You guys always appeal to my numbers side. I figured that guess was too high so I spent 15 minutes crunching the 2008 numbers. The analogy in this case is every bear weighs 300 pounds, all bucks score 150 or better while still alive, I swear that was a cougar, and well, we won't even talk about guessing fish weights. You're off by nearly twice as much. I ran firearm numbers for resident, non-resident, youth, and lifetime combined and found:

Lottery: 116,688 Licenses, 31,220 deer = 0.267

Managed: 113,682 Licenses, 46,910 deer = 0.412

Intensive 206,520 Licenses, 110,343 deer = 0.534

As I noted before, there's not much difference between managed and intensive but there is a big difference between lottery and everything else. The kill per person is further evidence of that fact. Also, remember, I can't account for every license so I just pulled the 800 pound gorilla (gun hunters). Also, this wasn't individual kill/person. This was just the number of people hunting those types of areas divided by total kill during the firearm season (which would include bonus permits)

[Jameson]

Thanks lc!

But you can't say for sure I am off yet....How many of those firearm licensees also killed deer with a bow or muzzleloader?

[lcornice]

Thanks lc!

But you can't say for sure I am off yet....How many of those firearm licensees also killed deer with a bow or muzzleloader?

We can safely say ... not enough

[USPENAMC]

lcornice,

I was wondering do you ever get time to hunt and fish yourself???? What about your officers? I mean not like they can take time off work to hunt the opener when they are most needed. The reason I ask is because I am currently working on my Associates degree in criminal law /police officer and was a bit interested in becoming a Game Warden but the sacrifice of not being able to hunt and fish would be too much.

[Deitz Dittrich]

USP- I have talked to Lou about this on one of our podcasts. Many of the DNR people take advantage of the later Muzzleloader season.

[lcornice]

lcornice,

I was wondering do you ever get time to hunt and fish yourself???? What about your officers? I mean not like they can take time off work to hunt the opener when they are most needed. The reason I ask is because I am currently working on my Associates degree in criminal law /police officer and was a bit interested in becoming a Game Warden but the sacrifice of not being able to hunt and fish would be too much.

Deitz has it right. I hunt muzzleloader primarily and archery when I can and firearm if I'm lucky. I try and get out an afternoon or two during the firearm season and if I'm lucky a morning before I have to work. But, I'm in my 21st straight year of spending the opening day of firearm season at a deer registration station. My opening day is usually Tuesday!

In a nutshell, most of us hunt weekdays.

[Bowfin]

My two cents-

For those interested in wildlife management jobs, go into forestry. Your job wont interfere with hunting and fishing and you affect more wildlife habitat then the wildlife managers. Once the economy turns around and agencies start hiring again the job outlook is good due to many folks reaching retirement age.

[Black_Bay]

My two cents-

For those interested in wildlife management jobs, go into forestry. Your job wont interfere with hunting and fishing and you affect more wildlife habitat then the wildlife managers. Once the economy turns around and agencies start hiring again the job outlook is good due to many folks reaching retirement age.

The old adage was, and still is, that if you like to hunt get into fisheries and if you like to fish get into wildlife. Wildlifers have it a bit tougher to get out because the seasons are so short in comparison to fishing season.

[lcornice]

The old adage was, and still is, that if you like to hunt get into fisheries and if you like to fish get into wildlife. Wildlifers have it a bit tougher to get out because the seasons are so short in comparison to fishing season.

That's true but the bottom line is jobs are few and far between regardless of which professional track you take. I see PhD's applying for jobs that a [PoorWordUsage] or MS would normally compete for. I'm not saying that's who we typically hire for entry level positions but the days of getting your 4-year degree and moving into a biologist/manager role are long over.

[96trigger]

Try telling that to 9th graders. Many think that they are going to conquer the world right after high school.

[Scott M]

The old adage was, and still is, that if you like to hunt get into fisheries and if you like to fish get into wildlife. Wildlifers have it a bit tougher to get out because the seasons are so short in comparison to fishing season.

If you want free time to hunt or fish don't get into fisheries, especially if you raise fish.

I think Bowfin has it right. Get into forestry. Pays better, requires less schooling, and 80% of the jobs are "up north"