Could Minnesota be a better trophy state than we realize?

[Bear55]

I completely agree , age is far and away the #1 factor. Nutrition certainly helps a buck grow a nicer rack when they are younger but if you look at the large northwoods deer this state produces you can see its not as important as age. Genetics play a big role if you are talking about 170+ Boone and Crocket type bucks but I would bet most hunters in this sate would be thirlled with a 125 buck and if you give them time most all bucks will easily get that big.

[archerystud]

Totally Agree....

[james_walleye]

Ask anyone in the know and they will tell you that MN deer have superior genetics and given the time most of them will mature to at least 140". Like stated already, you have to get them to 3 years old.

[Musky Buck]

Right on guys, when we were at the top trophy wise, we didn't have food plots then, I'm sure my grandpa's soybeans,corn, and premium alfalfa was doing the job, but without age they wouldn't reach maturity either. It is age, I have yet to see a buck going down hill in year 2,3,4 or 5. And further north, age gets them larger headgear and body size. We do have great genetics and hardy deer surviving cold winters. I almost at times get the feeling if you don't have a food plot, you'll have smaller inferior racks according to the salesman of the product. Food plots certainly don't hurt anything, but without age status quo.

[Bear55]

I think I saw something recently in Deer and Deer Hunting Mag that said the previous thought that a bucks rack will reach maximum growth at 5.5 years isn't a sure thing. They said many bucks peak close to 7-8 years of age before they start to go down hill. I'm certainly not suggesting anyone pass on 4-6 year olds but once you get them that age you have a plenty of time to try and track them down, chances are you will need it.

[CSTPETER]

Can I get an Amen!!! Age above all else is the most crucial aspect in seeing a bucks full potential.

Musky you don't realize how good you have it man. Imagine if all the groups around you did exactly the opposite of QDM? That's what most of us deal with. I know that in some of the Parties that hunt adjacent to me you will get your a$$ chewed for letting a little buck walk.

[propster]

Age, party hunting, gun season during the rut.

[james_walleye]

The new permission i got in SE MN is like this. People hesitate to shoot a 125-130" deer.

[Bear55]

Can I get an Amen!!! Age above all else is the most crucial aspect in seeing a bucks full potential.

Musky you don't realize how good you have it man. Imagine if all the groups around you did exactly the opposite of QDM? That's what most of us deal with. I know that in some of the Parties that hunt adjacent to me you will get your a$$ chewed for letting a little buck walk.

I'm in the same boat. About half of us in our party let the little ones go but the other half and everyone around us blasts everything. The neighbors never use to get that many deer but now they are doing pretty well shooting the deer we pass up. Not much a guy can do, I've give up trying to change their minds because its just not happening. I just wish those young spikes, forks, and 8's good luck on their run through the gauntlet.

[Basseyes]

Just a couple thoughts on deer management on the whole in MN.

Trying to get a person to buy into QDM is a hard sell if they view it as being told what they can and can't shoot by trophy hunters. Most hunters come from long lines of people who do not like being told what they can and can't do. I am one of them. But I also have seen the evidence that deer are over browsing their habitat.

That is the first thing IMO in deer management that needs to be more urgently addressed. Not the antler structure of individual animals.

Give deer good habitat with good winter food sources and cover.

Shooting more does and less bucks to reduce stress on the habitat should be more of a priority than antler size and hunter satisfaction. Hunters pay the bills and do need to have a say in this so the DNR has to walk a thin line between habitat concerns and hunter satisfaction.

Limit buck harvest some how should be a priority for a healthier deer herd. How we go about that I'm not sure?

There is no way Minnesotans and I agree are going to put the gun season after the rut like Wisconsin and Iowa does. It's just to cold in the northern 1/3 of the state for a hunt in late November or December to be very enjoyable for most older and younger hunters.

Antler point restrictions are good in theory but I question their long term effectiveness. Plus young hunters or old hunters who might be on their first or last hunt should be able to shot the first deer they see.

The early antler less season is a good idea to harvest does and give people who just want to shot a deer a hunt with less hunting pressure. Seems a lot of people think it cuts into their opening day success and think the idea is pee poor.

Traditions are hard to break and people even if they know it will help do not like change. Waterfowl hunters have limited themselves over the years and most of the restrictions have been self inflicted. They've seen the result of poor habitat conditions and have tried to help by plugging guns, cutting bag limits and restricting themselves to help waterfowl every way they can think of.

Are deer hunters willing to do the same with a change in mind set to regulations and season dates?

In my experience no.

A few die hard deer hunters will but these are the guys who hunt all year. They take up shed hunting, bow hunting, muzzle loading, buy land or work with land owners to build food plots, run trail cameras, let small bucks walk and shoot several does a year and let their buck tag go un filled even though the opportunities presented themselves but not a good mature buck.

Are they right and the casual deer hunter wrong for just wanting to shoot any deer they see?

No.

Are they more devoted?

Yes.

The trick IMO is to get the casual deer hunter more actively involved in the process of caring more for the whitetail it's management and habitat concerns. In turn they will take a second to think about shooting a young deer with testicles vs a bald deer or shooting a doe vs a fawn.

My $00.02 is to talk more about the over health of the herd and it's habitat vs head gear. Talking and showing big antlers only separates the gap between the dedicated trophy hunter be it the rich or poor one and the casual average Joe deer hunter. That bridge needs to be built in a way to seem inclusive vs exclusive. A healthier herd means better buck to doe ratios. Simple on paper shoot more does and less bucks. PR and logistics wise much harder than it sounds.

Better herd equals fewer deer.

Fewer deer fewer bucks.

Fewer deer less opportunity for Joe the deer hunter.

Joe not happy.

DNR worries about Joe's satisfaction so nothing changes.

[Bear55]

Great post Basseyes, I think you really hit the nail on the head. I have given up trying to talk guys into QDM, it just doesn't work for a lot of them. My long term plan is to educate them, the more they know about deer the better. I never get down on someone for shooting a little buck, it comes off an negative and that doesn't work. I alwasy weight all the deer we shoot and I try my best to age them. Many of the guys are suprised with the numbers and I do my best to tell them everything I know not only about weight and age but the rut and anything else I can think of. Hopefully the knowledge I spread will some day lead to them deciding on their own to pass up that young buck. Time will tell.

[Joe15]

Personally I'm getting tired of people always wanting more "trophies" for me it is a joy enough to get out and just be alone in the woods...getting any deer makes it great and hey if a nice one walks by...take it...its just a plus to the day...i'm not going to loose any sleep over not getting "the monster"

[BuckKiller]

yes me too... all this focus on trophy deer takes the fun out of hunting. I shoot whatever Im gonna eat...just like fishing, if im not gonna eat it ill let it go.

[Musky Buck]

I don't think we are trying to focus on "trophy" deer, how about a decent deer. At a registration station where they age the bucks here were the totals at the time when I registered mine. 117 bucks. 91 yearlings, 22 2 1/2 year olds and 4 3 1/2 or older. The cycle is in place. If you want to eat venison I would assume a doe or a fawn would do. Definitely protect the young and old hunters, they should have the chance to not have to worry or count points. Joe15, you can still get to hunt and have that joy in the woods, but lets do a little something about our poor buck age structure we have now. Wouldn't surprise me if that registration station is pretty similar across the state as far as age structure goes.

[Musky Buck]

CSTPeter- I hear ya. The area I hunt in has had no land for sale in 50 years or more, which makes the locals nervous because my 80 is up for sale, it is all locally owned by people that live outside the city limits, that is why the young bucks are protected and why this area produces so many trophy's. We all share the wealth, some years i get him and other years the neighbors get him and some years we all get a nice one. Many friends hunt in other areas where they let the little squirts walk and the next land owner given the chance hammers them. Someone mentioned a spike buck as it ages still being a spike, are you serious, anyone seeing any 3 1/2 year old spike bucks ? PS. Had 8 or more bucks on my T-Cam from feb.22-mar.6. with racks. I could forward the pics to you if someone would be willing to post and pick the buck ones out to post.

[BuckKiller]

yes a doe and fawn would be great... what if you don't see any?

I didn't see any last year. I saw 4 deer all 4 were bucks.

[BuckKiller]

Im not gonna pass on a 4 point in hopes of a doe

[Musky Buck]

Some day you will Buckkiller, just remember our area was that way when we had 2 days to hunt and maybe or maybe not a doe permit. So during rifle and musket you saw 4 bucks, in 25 days of possible deer hunting no does or fawns, bet you want EAB in your area lol. And out of those 4 bucks none were mature, guess what next year those 4 will be much larger so you should have a good chance at 1 of them. If you want meat, get a few guys together, find some public land, plan a safe drive and fill those bambi permits or do your own property the last day of the season in which you hunt and you'll have meat and then hunt for that mature buck. Most likely the reason you are seeing 1 1/2 year olds is because the cycle hasn't been broken, people in your area are not allowing them to age toward maturity. If you had a better buck mix I bet you'd be more patient. Last point is, where I shoot bucks and my uncles as well, I sometimes wish it would be a yearling, size wise, because dragging these 170-230 pounders out by hand is starting to take it's toll on this musky buck.

[james_walleye]

I was thinking the same thing reguarding spikes. You wont see a 3 year old spike in MN, the genetics in MN are too good....

[PerchPounder]

Musky Buck I would be more than happy to post any pics have. You can send them to cakrullatyahoodotcom I'll get them up asap.

[Basseyes]

Hunted in Wisconsin a few years back. Shot the first little basket racked 8 pointer I saw only 45 minutes into it. I was sitting not to far from the truck on public land in the general area where a friend had told me to sit. Never been on the land before and was sitting on the ground. Watched the buck chasing a doe around for a few minutes and couldn't get a shot at the doe. The buck came right up to me and I finally remembered the friend telling me to shoot the first deer I saw so his family could have some venison.

I looked at the small buck and he looked back at me love dumb as a stump. I was trying to shoot the doe and she was smart enough to see me moving around trying to get a good shot and she took off. The dumbest deer in the woods the 1 1/2 year old buck didn't run he just stood there looking at me. He stood their and took it right in the chest and fell over twenty yards away.

When we registered the deer got to talking to a young gal who was checking the deer for their DNR and she had yet to see as of lunch time a buck over 3 1/2 y/o's old. Another guy in our party shot 2 does. When we registered them the gal was still there and still had yet to see a deer over 3 1/2 y/o. Some of those 3 1/2 year old bucks were nice wide 10 pointers that I'd bet would score in the low to mid 130's. The basket racked 8 pointer I shot was 1 1/2. I can't imagine what he would have looked like in 2 years.

The 2 other deer shot in our party were fawns and the smallest deer I'd ever seen. Under 50#'s. The cover is over browsed and you can see it in the overall size of the deer. One of the guys the friend I was hunting with knew hunted a large chunk of private ground all by himself and saw 108 deer opening day and not one was a buck. He had 2 doe tags but didn't want to shoot a doe. Relayed that story to the DNR gal at the registration station and she said most locals are like that. She pointed to a trailer of guys from MN full of does and said they needed more of that. Then she pointed to a 3 1/2 y/o buck and said could you imagine what that deer would look like given another year with less competition for food.

I think it is hard to tell guys in this state to not shoot the only deer they see in 3 days of hunting. And I don't blame them. It would be nice to some how get the buck to doe ratio in check and protect the dumbest deer in the woods that 1 1/2 old buck.

Still have yet to hear any viable option that would do that without peeing off most guys that want to shoot the first deer they see.

Maybe we could make the first 3 days of the season any deer. Then after that does only or a buck with 4 points to the side or a 3" brow tine.

Or no bucks on the weekend days of the rifle and bow season.

Or a 9 day muzzle loader season for does only at the end of September or first week of October.

Or on private land or public land one or the other no bucks under 4 points to a side or a 3" brow tine.

Or the first 3 days of the season does only.

Not for more regulations. But am for protecting habitat and the herd by protecting young 1 1/2 year old bucks. Don't see how that will be done without more regulations and ticking some people off in some way shape or form.