Crow V 5.0

[greebs]

Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

For the record, Pennington was the most improve player in the NFL this year.

Also for the record, in order to be the most improve player in the nfl this year, last year you would of had to suck. and he won it twice, weres the consistancy?

sounds like tjack has a good jump on the competition on winning this award next year. he's basically just got to not suck and he should win it hands down. (but don't count on it)

[greebs]

Also for all those that were slobbering over Ryan/Flacco I heard a nice stat this morning they were a combined 0-9 this year when either of them had to throw 30+ times in a game.

Not a very valid stat. They really aren't on a team that relies heavily on the pass. I'll bet most qb's that "have" to throw 30+ times in a game have very poor records. Some qb's are in a system where it's not that unusual for them to throw 30 passes in a game (Brady, Warner, etc.) so they probably don't have poor records to compare against.

[fishin58]

Well you awesome Viking fans throw T under the bus every chance you get. And the last time I checked we are a pretty stout running team. And yes it is a valid stat because it is 0 fer.....there is no gray are with this stat, EVERY time they had to throw they lost.

[Rick]

I blame Chili

[DTro]

I would specifically stay away from any QB that has won the Heisman. Not a very good track record there.

In the last 20 years, I wouldn’t want any of the QB’s.

1989 Ware, Andre Quarterback 1,073

1990 Detmer, Ty BYU Quarterback 1,482

1991 Howard, Desmond Michigan Wide Receiver 2,077

1992 Torretta, Gino Miami Quarterback 1,400

1993 Ward, Charlie Florida State Quarterback 1,743

1994 Salaam, Rashaan Colorado Running Back 1,743

1995 George, Eddie Ohio State Running Back 1,460

1996 Wuerffel, Danny Florida Quarterback 1,363

1997 Woodson, Charles Michigan Defensive back 1,815

1998 Williams, Ricky Texas Running Back 2,355

1999 Dayne, Ron Wisconsin Running Back 2,042

2000 Weinke, Chris Florida State Quarterback 1,628

2001 Crouch, Eric Nebraska Quarterback 770

2002 Palmer, Carson USC Quarterback 1,328

2003 White, Jason Oklahoma Quarterback 1,481

2004 Leinart, Matt USC Quarterback 1,325

2005 Bush, Reggie USC Running Back 2,541

2006 Smith, Troy Ohio State Quarterback 2,540

2007 Tebow, Tim Florida Quarterback 1,967

2008 Bradford, Sam Oklahoma Quarterback 1,726

[FISHINGURU]

Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

For the record, Pennington was the most improve player in the NFL this year.

Also for the record, in order to be the most improve player in the nfl this year, last year you would of had to suck. and he won it twice, weres the consistancy?

his career qb rating is 90.6 and his completion % at 66.0 is better then the big name qb's you can think of...most qbs are happy to ever get a 66% completion rate for a season but thats penningtons career average.....sounds pretty consistant to me....but it is funny he won the most improved player award twice now lol.

[FISHINGURU]

the more a qb has to throw the ball the less chance they have to win...that means the running game is going nowhere..if tjack had to throw the ball over 30 times we'd never win either.

[greebs]

LOL. Don't understand why some feel that just because a player is on our team, they are off limits to any criticism if they underperform. Sorry, but these players are professionals and are paid a nice salary to produce and should be replaced when they don't.

But I suppose these same fans still are disappointed in the team recently giving up on a couple other stellar offensive performers and think we'd be better with michael bennett instead of adrian p as rb and troy williamson instead of berrian at wr. LOL

[Sandmannd]

Ha, now that's a great post Greebs!!! I agree 100%

[fishin58]

Go PACK GO...you guys might as well start the chant..I will stick with SKOL

[Rick]

Greebs, Who said because a player/coach is on our team they can't be criticised by a true fan? I haven't seen anyone say that. Can you point it out. As for name callers that's a differant issue.

I would like to see improved play from our QB, right O Tackle and especially an improvemet in our coaching staff.

I am adding a caveat that Super Bowl Champ QB Eli Manning went 15-29 for 169 yds with two interceptions against Philly today. Food for thought T-Jack haters.

[Sandmannd]

Now you're comparing T-Jack to Eli?? That's really grasping Rick and on one game.

[james_walleye]

For those people that thought MN didnt have a "realistic" chance at a superbowl once they got into the playoffs.....see the two 9 regular season win teams playing in the NFC championship. Just proves what can happen when you get the chance. I don't think anyone gave Arizona a chance to win a playoff game.

[LMITOUT]

Hey! Someone finally talk you down off the ledge?

They didn't have a realistic chance. Not with T-Jack. As I said in the other thread, AZ has the QB and the WR's plus a decent defense at times. MN has the defense but that's about it, and the running game alone isn't enough at this time of the year.

If they really indeed have a chance they'd been playing today or next week instead of shoveling snow or polishing up their testimony for the StarCaps case. Instead they're a mediocre team that had just enough to win a crummy division and make it to the playoffs where they lost in the first round AT HOME. They don't have all the pieces yet to be a "realistic" team, no matter how much you want to think they are.

Maybe next year!

[greebs]

Greebs, Who said because a player/coach is on our team they can't be criticised by a true fan? I haven't seen anyone say that. Can you point it out. As for name callers that's a differant issue.

I would like to see improved play from our QB, right O Tackle and especially an improvemet in our coaching staff.

I am adding a caveat that Super Bowl Champ QB Eli Manning went 15-29 for 169 yds with two interceptions against Philly today. Food for thought T-Jack haters.

in answer to your question, just go back and read the threads where anybody criticizes our qb and you'll see a few comments about how people are closet packer fans, throwing our qb under the bus, etc. etc.

[fishin58]

Etc..etc...etc PRO BOWL qb Eli Manning 15-29 169 yards 2 picks against the same Philly D that T faced....oh but sand said its only one game, well guess what it was T's first post-season game. It was not a great game but the Eagles are hot.

[Rick]

Originally Posted By: Rick

Greebs, Who said because a player/coach is on our team they can't be criticised by a true fan? I haven't seen anyone say that. Can you point it out. As for name callers that's a differant issue.

I would like to see improved play from our QB, right O Tackle and especially an improvemet in our coaching staff.

I am adding a caveat that Super Bowl Champ QB Eli Manning went 15-29 for 169 yds with two interceptions against Philly today. Food for thought T-Jack haters.

in answer to your question, just go back and read the threads where anybody criticizes our qb and you'll see a few comments about how people are closet packer fans, throwing our qb under the bus, etc. etc.

Sorry greebs, I don't see it where someone said because a player/coach is on our team they can't be criticised by a true fan? I haven't seen anyone say that. Can you point it out. As for name callers that's a differant issue.

[PierBridge]

I would like to see improved play from our QB, right O Tackle and especially an improvemet in our coaching staff.

That's the key piece for sure if our Right tackle play doesn't improve it won't matter who are QB is. Nobody can play QB if your right tackle is caving in your QB's face on almost every pass play.

I would like to add and actual receiver that can get open and maybe get a few extra yards after the catch.... I still contend our receiving core is atrocius... yes Berrian was a bit better than all the critics said he was and Shanko has improved but over all our Receiving core sucks IMO.

[james_walleye]

Guess the titans and giants didnt have realistic chances either. They each lost their first playoff game at home as well.

I think its hilarious that you sit and say now that you thought before the playoffs started that Arizone had a "realistic" shot at the superbowl. They were even more "mediocre" than the vikings and won an even worse division, and got spanked at home by the vikings. They are proof positive that a team can get hot and make a run. Cause a few turnovers, catch the #2 seed on an off night. This is looking like the 3rd year in the last 4 that a number 6 seed will make a superbowl with both the eagles and ravens playing in championship games. 2 of the last 3 superbowl champs were 6 seeds that were not given a chance to win a single playoff game much less the whole thing. Any team that makes the playoffs has a legit chance.

[LMITOUT]

Arizona is playing at a level it had been playing at earlier in the season before going through a slump at the end. Same goes for the Eagles but they had their slump mid-season. A level the Vikings never got to in 16 games in which could never "turn it on" when they had to, therefore they never had a legit chance to go any further after they won the "stellar" NFC North. Especially with their QB and WR situation.

The only way AZ was going to advance is if they could regain that level of play they had earlier, and they did. After that late season stretch I thought they were dead in the water, as did everyone else, but they found that extra gear again and moved on.

Based on the season luck calculations you love to hate, it appears luck finally caught up with the Vikes and Giants in the end. Whereas the opposite was true for the Eagles. Apparently the Vikes did have a better record than the team they really were.

Math never lies.

[FISHINGURU]

we can only hope t-awesome isn't the starter next season....then we can make a decent run next year!!!

[Scott M]

Gotta disagree with ya a bit there LMIT, although the luck statistics are intriguing.

Arizona won a division as putrid if not more than the NFC North. When did Arizona "turn it on" during the regular season? Philly at least had 4 straight wins, but they also were mediocre enough to be swept by the 'Skins and tie a game for the first time in a nearly a decade. Arizona's defense has stepped it up and they finally figured out how to use Edge James to have a multi-faceted offense. They haven't done that since week 1. Philly is getting healthy and peaking at the right time. I wouldn’t say the regular season performances of Philly or Arizona showed anything really dominant. It’s the “Any Given Sunday” league for a reason.

As a team could the Vikings ratchet it up a level? As a team I don’t think I could make that statement, but the defense sure could, and Adrian Peterson could (I remember the Green Bay game after his fumble where there was no way he was going to lose that game). So you are correct about QB and WR play, I'll give you that.

But if you want to play the luck card, using the regression model for expected wins, last years Vikings team was a game and a half under, this year's team is 1.6 over. I guess everything evens out. There is also the bias of the predictor variables chosen and their weights. The Vikings performance in the run or pass, offense or defense, plus turnovers and penalties are factored in, but why not normalize the data to throw out outlying games that weight too heavily? If you watched Carolina’s last game (the playoff loss), they might have been expected to lose >1.5 games given their 6 turnovers in that game alone (outlier). There is some value in the luckiest team data, but its not the most powerful data out there either I expect that the AFC champion will beat the NFC champion in the super bowl, and while that backs up this year's luckiest team rankings, I just think the steelers and ravens play better football and won more games for a reason, not the luck or lack thereof.

The truth is its hard to model luck. How would you ever model a 6 seed beating an undefeated team on a one handed catch against a 2nd stringer's helmet? This is the unmodelable (is that a word?) luck. Performance against your statistical ranking might be something else completely.

[fishin58]

GO T-JACK???!!!??? HAHA Good post chise!! I ahve been pulling for philly I think they can pull it out vs. the Cards and I would like to see the Penn Bowl.

[LMITOUT]

I think you need to revisit the beginning of the season and the numbers AZ was putting up. Same goes for Philly and McNabb. AZ may not have had a run of wins, but that doesn't mean the offense wasn't putting up some decent numbers like they are doing now.

These are the numbers I am referring to when I claim that the Vikings could never achieve that level of play with the players they have on offense. They are not a well rounded team and that's why they didn't have a realistic chance of going far in the playoffs, and they didn't.

I just think the steelers and ravens play better football and won more games for a reason, not the luck or lack thereof.

And guess what? They were right in the middle of the pack on the list of luckiest teams, showing their records weren't over or under inflated and they are truely a 9 or 10 win team now playing for the AFC championship. They weren't the charade called Minnesota. Funny how that works.

[PierBridge]

Cliff Clavin?

Long Story short every team in the league has chance now a days with the way the league is set-up.

Difler and Brad Johnson won Super Bowls for crying out loud. I'll even go out on a limb and say the Lions will be in the play-offs next year....