Need advice: Lab Purchase

[erikh45]

I had a deposit on a lab puppy from a litter born 12-23. Wife and I want a chocolate female. I want a female because it seems like I have had better luck with females in the past. We are leaning towards chocolate mainly because we like the looks, and our house decor is dark brown as well.

Here is the problem. In this litter no chocolate females survived. I now have the choice between a black female, or a chocolate male. It will now be a year until there is another litter from this pair. Even though I like the dogs that come from this breeder, and I like them personally I am not totally sold on getting a pup only from this breeder. I am considering getting my deposit back, and looking elsewhere. I need some

advice.

Should I be caught up on color? I figure this is a dog I will have for the next 15yrs, so I should get what I want.

Since there are only 2 black females there is not alot of selection.

I was hoping to have a puppy near the end of Feb/early March.

So, if anybody has opinions, or knows of someone reputable with chocolate females born recently, let me know.

Thanks,

Erik

[GotOne]

I'm a yellow lab guy and ended up buying a black lab. I was in the same boat as you. I have been reading labs4me posts for the last few years and knew when the time was right, I wanted a dog from him, based on his knowledge and selective breeding practices. Not to mention, black labs are also very good looking dogs, so it wasn't too difficult of a decision. So, far the pup (6 months old) has been great-more than I could ask for. BTW, he only had 2 pups available when I bought one:)

[SpringerGuy]

As a breeder, I know that at least with springers, whatever pup you take home you will fall in love with. You fall in love with the dogs personality not it's looks. The color or markings is what attracts you at first, but it's the personality that gets you in the end.

If you like the parents, take one of the pups and you should be good. If not look elsewhere.

[erikh45]

SG,

That is the direction I am leaning. I would like a chocolate, but the parents are black/yellow, and I do really like them. I think I need to mull it over and make a decision. I have spent the last year plus researching and reading. I was getting excited and had a picture in my mind. I just need to photo shop my mind's picture maybe

[caseymcq]

As a breeder, I know that at least with springers, whatever pup you take home you will fall in love with...

Yup, everybody is a softie for a puppy.

If you really have your heart set on a chocolate female you might want to look around. I know I have mentioned it to you before Erik, but the breeder we bought our female(Maggie) from has every color and we are extremely with her. If you are willing to travel a little ways they would be an excellent kennel to get a pup from.

Or if you want a black or yellow male...

If you are making the investment (time, money, yourself, your family, etc.) into getting a pup and you are going to have this dog for up to 15 years take you time. The anticipation of getting the puppy is part of the fun.

[erikh45]

Casey,

Can u shoot me a pm or an email with the name of the breeder you got Maggie from? If memory serves, it was Smith Farms. I have looked at so many breeders in 2008 they start to run together.

Erik

[caseymcq]

I just zipped off an email to you.

[duckbuster]

If you have your heart set on a Chocolate then go get one. With the puppy market as saturated as it is right now you should not have a problem finding a well bred dog of the color and sex you want.

GOOD LUCK

[jakemcarroll]

Not to muddle your decision but I was also dead set on getting a female dog (from past experiences with males) when my wife and I fell in love with our current male chocolate lab. But like everyone has said above, it really is about the dog and there are good and bad dogs of every color and sex, enjoy your new puppy (whichever one you choose!).

[caseymcq]

... when my wife and I fell in love with our current male chocolate lab...

And there is nothing you can do at that point.

[Jackpine Rob]

My advice, which gets you a cup of coffee if you have 50 cents, is as follows:

1. Breeding is the key. The beast you're buying as a hunting dog needs to be out of good stock - proven backgrounds and no history of congenital defects/diseases. If I'm going to be feeding and paying the vet bills, I want all the help I can get from the pup's parents/grandparents!

2. Sex. I've always preferred boy dogs. No heat cycles during the hunting season. Others prefer girl dogs - less likely to roam and wander and take off after the neighbors b1tch when she comes in season.

3. Color. I've had 2 chocolates, both of whom were good citizens and dogs that I was happy to have. That said, this time around I went with a black dog. He's 8 months old now, and coming along splendidly.

[blarkey]

Hold out for what you want because what ever you get, you will wish you wanted and it wont be good enough if you settle

I had a deposit on a lab puppy from a litter born 12-23. Wife and I want a chocolate female. I want a female because it seems like I have had better luck with females in the past. We are leaning towards chocolate mainly because we like the looks, and our house decor is dark brown as well.

Here is the problem. In this litter no chocolate females survived. I now have the choice between a black female, or a chocolate male. It will now be a year until there is another litter from this pair. Even though I like the dogs that come from this breeder, and I like them personally I am not totally sold on getting a pup only from this breeder. I am considering getting my deposit back, and looking elsewhere. I need some

advice.

Should I be caught up on color? I figure this is a dog I will have for the next 15yrs, so I should get what I want.

Since there are only 2 black females there is not alot of selection.

I was hoping to have a puppy near the end of Feb/early March.

So, if anybody has opinions, or knows of someone reputable with chocolate females born recently, let me know.

Thanks,

Erik

[erikh45]

Thanks for all of the advice. I am now looking around again at breeders with upcoming litters. I figure I have waited a long time, and have done some research, so what is the harm going to be in waiting a little longer to get what I want. So if anyone has any ideas of where I can look, let me know.

Thanks,

Erik

[Jackpine Rob]

First off, let me apologize for putting too wide a picture in. Nothing worse than have to scroll on these threads because some mor0n doesn't understand picture sizing.

You're doing the right thing, by waiting and looking and asking a few questions. A pooch is a long-term investment of time and money and energy.

Get it right.

There are some breeders here who pay attention to the important stuff - and that is truly what every dog guy is most concerned about. Labs4Me and a few others understand the process, and what an amateur (like you and me) really need in a pup to succeed with our mutts.

I did the Want Ad thing once - - - and after 6 months of looking and calling and visiting, we finally found a chocolate litter that piqued my interest. Sad to say, most of those people advertising "chocolate labs" were far more interested in the color than in the important stuff. Ben ended up being a real pistol, and a great partner. It was bloodlines, and not color or sex that made him what he was.

Don't rush things. You're going to have the beast for a long time - and you'd better be excited about bringing her/him home right from the get-go.

[erikh45]

Here is another question with a twist. I have been firmly rooted into getting a dog at 8wks of age. There is a breeder that has been mentioned here and on other sites as having great lines. They have a litter that is 3 months old. I am apprehensive because of the age. What are people's opinions about getting a pup this old? My last dog I got at three months and he was a royal terror, but he was a bulldog and was a rescu from a puppy mill. I am sure that there are great success stories of dogs that were brought home at 3 months, but I am sure they came from a breeder that did tons of socialization and probably raised them in a family setting.

[SpringerGuy]

If this is such a great line, then why are there any left at 3 months old? I do understand that there are a lot of labs being breed out there. Maybe too many.

[erikh45]

I don't think that they are top of the line, but top of the line in my price range (actually just above), and I have heard good things about other dogs that have come from the same kennel, and one pup that came from the same parents.

There are alot of people out there breeding labs. It is almost frustrating to a point. Some people are advertising labs as "british" labs and asking a grand. When you look at the pedigree there is no sign of British anything. Then they tell you they are "british style". I think that in the end I am going to have to just rely on the small amount of instincts that I have, and pick something in my price range. I am pretty sure that I will be happy with whatever I decide on. Jidging by my age I still have at least two dogs left if it is in fact a 4 dog life. Thanks for all of the advice.

Erik

[caseymcq]

The British vs British Style tag is a hard one. My dog has a grand parent from the UK. Is that close enough for her to be called British? If you stood her next to a dog that just got off the boat and didn't know which one just came from merry old England you wouldn't be able to tell by looks alone. You might be able to pick up an accent in their bark. The dog we just bred her with has a grand parent from the UK. Again, is that close enough for him to be called British? Are the pups "British Labs" ? I have hesitated in calling our litter "British Labs" when people have enquired about them but I think an argument could be made. We have made the actual AKC Registrations available for people looking at the pups so they can make the call on their own if getting a Brit is one of their deciding factors.

I know all labs have some tie to the UK but I thought when British Labs were being discussed the defining characteristics were physical (a more compact body, more otter-like tail, blockier head, etc.) and their demeanor (a little calmer typically, a little more sensitive.). That is just what I have read to this point on the subject. I have yet to see anything that defines whether or not a lab is a Brit based on how far removed it is from England in its pedigree. If anyone knows of anything I would love to see it so I know something for sure.

[duckbuster]

As I stated in my last post the puppy market is SATURATED!!!

It does not matter if you are looking for a house Lab, a hunting Lab or a Field trial Lab. There are so many litters out there some people will have fire sales to get rid of their puppies. They have no choice unless they are to stubborn to lower their price and move the puppy out of their home.

There are numerous field trial litters out there where 2 years ago you would pay $2,000. Now you can wait on a litter and get that same puppy for about $1,000 - $1,2000.

There is nothing wrong with the puppy it is just that the breeder can't find a home or a buyer is all.

Actually, if you are getting a puppy at 3 months old then you should be getting a very good size price break.

You wanted a chocolate, then wait it out, as you stated you have waited this long. Be patient just a bit longer and get what YOU want!!!

GOOD LUCK

[Superduty]

You can get a great dog wheter its, black, yellow, or chocolate. That being said, I would much rather have a dog that was bread for characteristics other than color. Often times, breeders select for chocolate at all costs. Your odds of getting a great pet/hunting dog are greater if you pick a dog that was not bred for it's color alone.

Have you considered buying a started dog. You pay up front for a year (approximately) of training. This gives you a chance to see more of the finished product. It eliminates the risk associated with a pup that may never have a chance to hunt or be the dog you are looking for. I have hunted over four different labs that were purchased at about one year of age and have been impressed by all of them. I will never buy another puppy again. Too many variables at eight weeks.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you ask the breeder about EIC. (exercise induced collapse) It can be tested for now. They can tell you if the dog carries the gene(s) and if it will simply be a carrier or be affected.

[erikh45]

SD,

I agree with the bred for color thing. If I just wanted a chocolate lab there would be no trouble finding one. Now that I am in a place in my life where I can buy what I want, I figure I should do a little research and try to get what I want. I have read a bunch about EIC. I have heard that they can test for the genes, but don't really know much about it. One kennel told me they test for it. I was skeptical until I did a little bit of reading.

Actually, if you are getting a puppy at 3 months old then you should be getting a very good size price break.

What would be the general feeling on how much of a price break would be reasonable to ask for on a 3month old pup? Sorry to draw this thread out, but the more answers I get, the more questions I have.

[duckbuster]

In the trial area because the puppy prices are higher it would be somewhere between 25-50%. We priced our pups at $1,200, at 7 weeks we sold the last 2 at $800.

In a "great hunters" type of thing/advertisement that might have a puppy price of $500-$600 I would think something close to that.

You have to remember that no one wants to keep the puppies around for longer than that 7 weeks. Raising them isn't all fun and games. It gets to be quite a bit of work and at the end of 7 weeks when most should be in new homes breeders will get busy trying to place them.

I learned one valuable lesson from our litter, I will NEVER pay full asking price again. You find a few litters that interest you. You call and ask your questions, EIC, CNM, Hips, Elbows & PRICE. At 6 weeks you make your calls again and let the bargining begin.

I am not saying this to sound cheap but I have been around the trial game long enough to know that to many times the throw away or the "one nobody else wanted" puppy seems to end up being the best. In the trial game buying a puppy is such a [PoorWordUsage] shoot. The great trainer Rex Carr would say, "find the breeding you want, close your eyes, reach in and pick your puppy". From a hunting standpoint I don't believe the pick is that critical. Most "great hunters" breedings will give you a hunting dog that will work out. So long as the dog gets in the woods or fields more often than not. Meaning the dog isn't in a kennel for 10 months of the year then the owner takes the dog hunting and gets [PoorWordUsage] because his hunter isn't doing what he expects.

Whether you are training a dog for field trials or training your dog to be your hunting partner it still takes time to teach and train your friend what it is you want him/her to do for you.

[erikh45]

Thanks, that is the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks for the detailed respons.

[311Hemi]

You call and ask your questions, EIC, CNM, Hips, Elbows & PRICE.

As mentioned....definitely watch out for breeders who breed for color. Find a breeder that breeds gun dogs/hunting dogs.

Just to add to what has been said, make sure the pup you buy had health clearances. DB listed most of the ones you want to ask about to make sure both parents have been tested or are cleared by parentage (their parents were test clear of the genes).

The parents should have OFA results for the hips and elbows, and also have been tested for EIC, CNM, and PRA/CERF. I personally would not buy another lab without having these health clearances!

One more thing.....if either of the parents are not at least two years old, watch out. You can not get final OFA results on dogs younger that 24 months.

[crothmeier]

I purchased my black female from a small local guy for $150. He has one Male and 2 females he uses for breeding. Good health history and excellent hunters. I also sold 2 males for him to some friends. All three dogs were/are excellent. Good "natural" hunting insticts, and all three had a very mild temperment as puppies. I dont think spending the most amount of money will get you the best dog. If you can find someone that you know, and can get references from people on past litters, thats what i prefer over the big breeders and big price tags. In the end a dog is only as good as the amount of time you spend with it.