dnr deer management (or lack there of)

[96trigger]

Antler restrictions... I think it is going to be the only way that Minnesota can do both manage the heard for population, and ensure that we have trophy bucks for EVERYONE.

Some areas of Minnesota have a very low deer population, people just want to see deer again. Others have deer, but people complain about never seeing big bucks because all the people shoot them when their little. In another part of the state there are lots of deer but its broken into two seasons, so if you go to earn a buck in that area, you are going to basically eliminate the second season and force all the hunters to go into one season and that will lead to massive overcrowding of both public and private land. I'm giving in, I'm done saying that we have trophy deer and people have to work for them. You guys are all right, we should all write to the DNR and make them enforce Antler restrictions, it would be fine by me, I pass on enough small bucks anyway. Maybe then we will all start getting our large deer, and an overrun population, Minnesota can become a hot spot for all the hunting shows, and then we can all complain about how our favorite hunting spots are being leased over run by hunters or outfitters with bigger pocket books and TV cameras.

[sparcebag]

Ya know how people get irritated with more regulation.Here at FM I read it all the time and your proposing more regulation?

It may sound good but I dont think it will happen.Not as a group anyway.Take the hunter with his or her kids first hunt,or me a meat hunter (only archery)Then think how many Dads want their kid to sit for hours only to pass on taking a animal.Hard to break tradition!

[MinDak Hunter]

96'er- You must’a missed me when I left my stand this past weekend... Didn't you see me carrying my Martin recurve? Oh, I thought you knew me. I have killed "a couple" in my 25 years of archery hunting (you most likely have been hunting more years than me but we all have to start somewhere).

I know what is "level" and what isn't; it's the elitist attitudes that I can't stand.

[96trigger]

I'm not saying that I'm for it, I'm just saying that its going to be the only way that the DNR is going to be able to satisfy both the meat hunter, and the trophy hunter. The meat hunter will be forced to shoot does or a large buck, and the trophy hunter will have to shoot a big buck, letting the little ones go. I hate regulations, I can regulate myself, but evidently, others think that we need the DNR to regulate for the rest.

[96trigger]

Quote:

96'er- You must’a missed me when I left my stand this past weekend... Didn't you see me carrying my Martin recurve? Oh, I thought you knew me. I have killed "a couple" in my 25 years of archery hunting (you most likely have been hunting more years than me but we all have to start somewhere).

I must have missed you. I'm glad that you have killed a couple, but I have to take you at your word that you are a traditionalist with your Martin Recurve. I'm surprised that you would be hunting this close to the rut. After all, its after the 3rd week in October.

[BigGills]

96-Not a bad idea with the Antler restrictions. On another note I'm not saying that I want shows in MN and all of the land to be leased. But thanks for implying that.

How about Antler restrictions with an age limit? This would be in response to the comment about bringing kids out to hunt. Maybe up to a certain age that kids can tag smaller bucks. You can shoot holes in that idea but it would help reduce the problem. I'm just sick of business as usual mentality and trying to brainstorm.

[96trigger]

It's got to be across the board or it won't work. If the DNR wants to do it, they are going to have to get tough with everybody, kids alike. I'm not saying that I agree with it, its just how it would have to be. This is the get tough part about QDM that we want so badly, how else are kids going to learn.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

. On another note I'm not saying that I want shows in MN and all of the land to be leased. But thanks for implying that.

I don't think he was implying that at all...That's the inevitable consequence of having this "fantasy" buck population.

I think too many people watch Jeff Foxworthlessly's shows toooooo much!

[candiru]

I really don't think that we can compare these TV shows to what we see in the wild. On the shows even if there are not fences, the hunting on the land is tightly controlled by out fitters.

When we talk about moving the gun season back, are we also talking about the northwoods?

[sticknstring]

I quickly scanned the last page of posts and noticed antler restrictions came up... Missouri has been doing 4 points on a side for the past few seasons and in talking with a few close contacts down there - it really isn't making a huge impact. The problem being that gun season coincides with the rut and a portion of the yearlings and majority of the 2 1/2's get hammered right away. You can also shoot 3 bucks down there, 2 with the bow and one with the gun. That said, I would be happy to see more 2 1/2 yr olds running around than much of the breeding being done by yearling bucks. Many will get killed but the chances of a buck making it to it's 4th hunting are much higher with antler restrictions in place than without. (No facts here, just common sense and my opinion of course.) Earn-a-buck & antler restrictions are great, but having firearms during the rut is the single most deterrent in growing mature deer in MN. The desire for QDM is definitely increasing with each passing year and it'll be interesting to see where we are in 10 years. One severe winter and we'll all be talking on ways to help restore the population and regain the numbers that we're now all used to. I'm sure glad I'm not in Lou's shoes!

[96trigger]

We would need stricter restrictions. 4 to a side, must have at least one vertical tine greater than 6 inches. I don't know. As for moving the season back, its tough, right now, the rutt is starting up north, down here, we are a little bit behind. I'm sure Iowa is even farther behind us. It would be tough to move the firearm season, unless you had two separate seasons, and then where would you draw the line? I don't know where we are headed and I don't know if I like it, but I do trust the DNR and that they will do what is best for the deer population in Minnesota.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

We would need stricter restrictions. 4 to a side, must have at least one vertical tine greater than 6 inches.

So are we going to have to jump out of the tree onto the bucks back with a tape measure to make sure it has 4 points and a 6 inch tine???? Come on! what's the point of even hunting anymore?

This "trophy" mentality is/will be the downfall of our deer hunting heritage. If not through the anti's proving to the rest of the non-hunting public all we hunters care about is thumping our chests of a big rack instead of the real tradition of the hunt, then it will be from the buy-up of public land to convert everything in to a managed ranch(like Texas) that you need to take a second mortgage out on just to hunt for a year..... Is this what you QDM monster buck guys want?????

It makes me sick to see all people care about is what the buck scores..... Is that really what it's all about????? I gladly have no clue how to score a rack, and I hope I never do! To me, it's a 10 pointer w/ a 20 inch spread is enough for me to know you got one heck of a buck!

I guess I just don't get it....

To me hunting is about the hunt! It would lose a lot of it's thrill if I had to measure tine lenght, or have to wait to shoot a monster because I don't have a doe yet.

I think MN is doing just fine. There are plenty of real monster bucks to be had all over the state, get out and find them! Don't push your agenda on the rest of us and take away from our heritage, just so you can shoot a monster year after year. Ever heard of a "once in a life time buck"! I personally like that concept...it keeps things interesting!

[B. Amish]

antler restrictions are bad news. you systematically eliminate the bucks with the most potential.

for example, you have two 1 1/2 year old deer. one is a 6 pointer that would be illegal to shoot because it's less than 8 points. the other is a ten and is legal to shoot. which one has the greater potential?

leave everything alone, but eliminate party hunting and cross tagging. you shoot it, you tag it, you eat it.

[Bear55]

This may not be a popular opinion and may not work in some areas in the state but I would at least consider limiting the buck tags. I believe South Dakota does this and has a healthy buck population. As soon as something is limited it becomes more valuable and people may think twice about shooting that young spike or fork buck. Or if they do shoot the young buck they would be limited to how many a party could shoot. By reducing the buck tags by say 33% there could be that many more bucks around the next year. Getting a buck tag 2 out of 3 years won't be such a bag deal when there are more mature bucks walking around. Just kind of thinking out loud so there may be some holes in this idea.

Also to those complaining about elitist/trophy attitude, I don't think most people want to legislate a big buck behind every tree, but just increase the chance to see a mature buck. There is no doubt that age structure of the bucks in this state are out of whack and completely unnatural.

[Bear55]

Another interesting idea might be to impose antler restrictions every other year. Let all the young bucks live one year, let the meat hunters at them the next year. I think you would see a few bucks make it through cracks and live a little longer.

I will throw one more idea off the wall. Impose antler restrictions but allow hunters to apply for a young buck lotto similar to the doe lotto in some areas. This at least limits the young bucks harvested state wide.

I would be interested to know if the DNR has any number on the percentage of yearling bucks harvested every year.

[96trigger]

Quote:

So are we going to have to jump out of the tree onto the bucks back with a tape measure to make sure it has 4 points and a 6 inch tine????

Nope, just do what hunters are supposed to do, and be aware of what your target is. If you can't do that, don't shoot. It should be deer 101.

Again, I like the system we have, but its a vocal minority that are going to change things. For the record, I don't agree with restrictions, I don't agree with earn a buck. I think we have big deer here in Minnesota, but they are big for a reason. They are tough to hunt, and ever tougher to get a shot at.

Geesh, where are some of you guys on the other threads when I get trashed for saying I like the way things are now and that the DNR is doing a good job and that we don't need earn a buck or restrictioins?

BTW, I do like the brainstorming on things that we can do try and get a healthier buck population in some areas.

[Bear55]

I must also say that I am not really in favor of any kind of antler restrictions but I do favor some kind of QDM to let some of the bucks live to an older age class.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Quote:

So are we going to have to jump out of the tree onto the bucks back with a tape measure to make sure it has 4 points and a 6 inch tine????

Nope, just do what hunters are supposed to do, and be aware of what your target is. If you can't do that, don't shoot. It should be deer 101.

I am well aware of my target before the trigger gets pulled, it is basic hunting 101. But even from 10 yards out it's a little tough to tell if the tine is 6 inches...could be 4.9 or 5.7 even 5.10&1/8th.....Get my point????

[96trigger]

I understand you point, my point is that with restrictions like that, people will stay away from the border deer, and go for the ones that have like 10 inch tines. I mean, if thats all SOME (not all) people on here care about, they shouldn't have to ever worry about a deer having its longest tine close to 6 inches, should be twice that long right? Should be able to see that from 100 yards away. That is what we are talking about right, only shooting the Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett bucks?

I hope that if earn a buck and restrictions ever get talked about that some of you will call the DNR and tell them what you think. I am sure that the QDM'rs already have their ear bent. I will practice QDM on my own, I don't need it regulated by the DNR.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I will practice QDM on my own, I don't need it regulated by the DNR.

Thank you! I completely agree!

[Bear55]

I'm not sure about the 6 inch tine length thing. Many of the buck up north no matter how mature won't get tines that long because they don't have the nutrition. I've seen a lot of big bucks that have a wide rack, thick heavy beams but none of the tines are longer than 5 inches.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I'm not sure about the 6 inch tine length thing. Many of the buck up north no matter how mature won't get tines that long because they don't have the nutrition. I've seen a lot of big bucks that have a wide rack, thick heavy beams but none of the tines are longer than 5 inches.

Exatamundo!!!!!!! ( Hammer, meet head of nail!)

[96trigger]

Again, I think Minnesota is too varied to be successful at statewide QDM, its why our best bet is to manage for population, not bucks, and leave it up to the individual to practice their own QDM. Like the DNR does and will hopefully continue to do. Not all those little bucks are going to run and get shot by the neighbors, some yes, but not all.

So it goes back to the DNR and what this thread started about. Maybe they really are trying to just do their job.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

So it goes back to the DNR and what this thread started about. Maybe they really are trying to just do their job.

Ya think?

And a great job at that! You know things are going well when less then 10 years ago I needed to apply to even shoot a doe and now I can legally kill 7 this year.

Not to mention just about every logging road and trail is covered in rubs and scrapes....Too bad there's soooo many places for them to hide it's really tough to get one, but THAT is not the DNR's fault.

[Bear55]

I still think there needs to be some changes made, maybe not the regulations but the mind set of hunters. Like I said on a previous thread my biggest problems is guys I hunt with pass up does to shoot little bucks when they have a doe tag in their pocket.

I also think party hunting is a rediculous tradition that leads to more young bucks being taken out early. Most states don't allow this, why do we?