DNR Threatens ELS agents-lcornice?

[flipper]

It really torqued me when they wasted all that venison last year. Talk about overreacting to a non problem. I can't believe they think anyone would donate to the program again.

[glenn57]

flipper, couldnt agree with ya more. i wouldnt donate anyway. if i dont use it wont shoot it.

[fishermatt]

Regarding this statement: "The people who created the donation program have an interest in making sure we are doing as much as possible to make it succeed."

What exactly is their interest? A bonus of some kind? Do they get a certain percentage of the money collected?

Why are we always being asked to Donate more when we're already being charged for something. I think it's rude and chiseling for the State to do this kind of thing. I'm there to get my license, not get hassled for more "donations" to line the pockets of some Government Program Manager.

[lawdog]

i dont understand how the dnr can take away an els agents right to sell license based on donations to the venny donation program?

Did you read the DNR's letter? Its not the donations they are harping on the agents about, its their refusal to follow the licensing rules and ask about the program, just like many don't ask the HIP questions for small game. If they want to sell licenses, shouldn't they follow the rules for selling them?

[koonie]

They must have sent this letter out to a lot of els agents. We got one too. They are assuming we aren't asking the people to donate just because the number of donations isn't very high. This is a joke plain and simple. I don't believe that there is a 17% donation rate. I'd also like to know where the money goes if there is any left over that hasn't been paid out to the processors. Actually, I'd like to see a precise account of where every penny of our licensing money goes.

[tealitup]

They must have sent this letter out to a lot of els agents. We got one too. They are assuming we aren't asking the people to donate just because the number of donations isn't very high. This is a joke plain and simple. I don't believe that there is a 17% donation rate. I'd also like to know where the money goes if there is any left over that hasn't been paid out to the processors. Actually, I'd like to see a precise account of where every penny of our licensing money goes.

Good luck!

[harvey lee]

Thanks Lou for getting the correct facts out there.

[Bear55]

What irk's me a little is that the DNR makea a ton of money off deer license sales. Most of that money is not used on deer or deer hunting programs, I believe I read somewhere that most of the $$$ are used to stock lakes with fish. Why are they asking us to donate more $$$ when we already pay for the lions share of other programs, why not raise other licenese fees and pay for this program out of the current license sales.

[A.W.Wolfram]

Being an e.l.s agent is a pain in the butt where most of the time and effort is worth exactly $1.

They still should ask the questions required of them though.

Just my thoughts seeing as most people are now ripping the agents even though they have no idea how much of a pain it is to sell licenses. You should try it sometime though. You get to give gun safety lessons, a thorough rundown of game and fish laws and you get to sell 3 different types of the same license to the same guy because he doesn't know what he wants or needs and tends to add on something else after it's already printed out.

1. I worked for a large metro sporting goods store as a manager for three years. I have sold THOUSANDS of licenses. And this was back before ELS, they were all hand written.

2. I don’t think it’s “picking on” when you ask some one to do there job.

3. If it’s a PAIN IN THE BUT then don’t do it. Some one else can draw the business you think it dose not bring you.

4. You’re in a Position to educate people on the out doors and sporting ethics and you’re complaining about it.

5. If you need to run a license three times you’re obviously not asking any questions.

6. ELS is a lot easier then hand writing.

[hanson]

I don't think I've been asked the HIP Certification questions the last 3-4 years but it always says HIP certified on my small game license. All different stores, some big box, some small town. Thats not really complying with the rules IMO.

When the DNR is using these responses as a management tool, how are you supposed to manage without any kind of accurate info.

[A.W.Wolfram]

Good point Hanson

[carpshooterdeluxe]

i worked at a full service gas station in high school when the els came out 9 or 10 years ago; the system hasnt really changed, but even with todays tech savvy kids working at convience stores, they still dont really understand what the heck they are actually doing. im minnesota non-res; and trying to buy a license from a 17 year old kid on a friday night is a nightmare. at least when the system first came out we got a little training on the thing; the people now have no clue. its no wonder they dont ask for the donation; heck when i bought my state pheasant stamp 2 fridays ago, i bought the stamp, a mtn. dew, and a snickers, paid with a 20, and got $17 back. ???? free pheasant stamps this year!

[koonie]

1. I'm sorry you had to hand write thousands of licenses.

2. Did I not say "They still should ask the questions required of them"?

3. I just work there so it's not up to me. Regardless, it IS a pain in the butt. Secondly, time is money and it is "hardly" worth the time. You can get a license anywhere so it's hardly a big draw to an individual store.

4. It's not my job to teach sporting ethics. Ethics is a personal view and everyone views things differently. Educate people on the outdoors? How about being responsible and reading the regulations instead of relying on someone else to do the work for you. If you don't understand the regs and have questions I'll help as much as I can. A lot of people just don't make the effort. It just gets really old when so many people don't/won't read the regs and want you to explain the whole book to them. Seems like the way society is now--"do it for me so I don't have to do it myself". Not everyone is guilty of this but it's quite prevalent.

5. Your statement in #5 makes no sense. If someone asks for a small game license and I print him one how am I not asking any questions? Am I supposed to ask if he fishes? If he's married and his wife fishes? If he spearfishes? If he rides horses on state trails? Should I ask if he wants all 40 or 50 types of licenses the dnr offers? OBVIOUSLY NOT!

6. BRILLIANT statement!

Back to the topic at hand. Our store was at 8%, and the other store in town was at 5%. Another store 10 miles away was 0%.

Most of the time the person starts to shake their head no as soon as I say donate.

I think, if the dnr keeps the program and more money isn't donated, they'll try to tack it on our licenses like they did to begin with. I think they should pin it on non res. licenses and leave it at that.

[Shack]

heck when i bought my state pheasant stamp 2 fridays ago, i bought the stamp, a mtn. dew, and a snickers, paid with a 20, and got $17 back. ???? free pheasant stamps this year!

I would double check to make sure it is valid.

Hate to find out in the field it did not go through because of lack of payment. I am not sure what the fine is, but I am sure it is more that $7.50 for hunting with out a valid stamp purchase and I am sure a trip to court to prove your story.

I could have walked away today without paying for mine, but I reminded the employee at the sportsman counter in Wal-Fart about having to pay for it.

By the way, it was the first license that employee ran threw. It took about 4 tries, but we got it done .

[BLACKJACK]

I think, if the dnr keeps the program and more money isn't donated, they'll try to tack it on our licenses like they did to begin with. I think they should pin it on non res. licenses and leave it at that.

I agree, eventually we'll end up paying for it, which I think is wrong. If its such a great idea, then the legislature should fund it, but not by taxing hunters, if its such a great idea, make all MN taxpayers pay for it.

"As we move forward and decide which agents should continue to sell licenses, there is the possibility that low-compliance agents will not get to sell licenses in the future"

I don't care what anybody says, if thats not a threat my handle isn't Blackjack. What is disturbing about this is that the DNR is saying A) we had 17% dontations in St. Paul when everyone is asked the question so that means that the agents with lesser percents HAVE to not be asking the question. Reminds me of my trig class in high school and all the theorems.

How about this theory. In downtown St. Paul you have a high percentage of yuppie, well off hunters, so they'll say yes to the vension donation program. In the outstate, you have a high percentage of blue collar guys that are watching their nickels and just say NO to the program? Wouldn't that make the outstate agents have a lower percentage?

I think that the letter could have been worded better, just state that make sure you ask the question.

Lou, I really, really appreciate you coming here and giving us the straight facts!!!

[Red Miller]

Finally back to the point....judging compliance by the bottom line. There is no connection. I agree Blackjack, it was poorly worded since Lou did tell us that it was not the intent of letter.

[lcornice]

Finally back to the point....judging compliance by the bottom line. There is no connection. I agree Blackjack, it was poorly worded since Lou did tell us that it was not the intent of letter.

Poorly worded isn't exactly the terminology I'm hearing on the phone! Man, I thought deer hunters could beat a guy down but they've got nothing on license agents :-) Clearly, it should have been worded better. So ... I'm likely going to send out an apology to the agents next week. Man, it didn't come across as intended.

Have a good weekend everyone. I'm off to St. Croix SP to take my daughter on the youth hunt. Took her 2 years but she drew a permit.

[koonie]

Good luck! Hope you have a great hunt. I can't wait until my girl is old enough to hunt.

[Red Miller]

Good Luck and Good Hunting! I hope you guys have fun. Let us know how she did.