diesel vs. gas

[fishnhuntnboy]

Im looking at getting a truck and im not quiet sure if i want to get a diesel or a gas truck. I do a lot of driving a week and tow a boat 3-4 times a week. The thing that has me going towards the diesel is dont they get better mileage in fuel the gas trucks? Grant it that it will cost more to fill up but if i can go quiet a bit of miles on one tank, i think it will be worth it.

So what would be the better choice

[Ryan_V]

look at the "truck for towing" thread. it has been discussed. short answer, if you're doing heavy duty towing on a VERY frequent basis, diesel is worth it, otherwise gas is the way to go. you have to do tons and tons of hauling to make the jump to diesel worth it. if you can afford a diesel, go for it, you'll love it, but you like don't need it, IMHO

[Valv]

Yes, check that thread. A diesel nowadays will not be worth unless you do a lot of miles.

The only brand you might find interesting is a Dodge from 1994 to 1998 with manual transmission. These trucks get 21/23mpg at interstate speed and 17/18 city travel. Anything else is in the 15/16mpg, a little better than a gasser which are around 12/14mpg.

I tow professionally, I travel many thousands of miles every month and myself have considered a gas truck instead, to use a spare and daily driver.

New trucks are even worse, due to emission controls the mpg has dropped considerably.

[fishnhuntnboy]

I read that thread and there is alot of good info and put a new insight on which truck to get. My problem is i drive so much a week its over 200 miles prolly close to 280. I have a car right now and just cannot stand it at all cause i hate cars and i hate using my dads truck all the time towing the boat. So from work and play im trying to find a fuel efficent truck that can handle the miles with good mpg and can tow the boat without sucking fuel and having to fill up everyday

[harvey lee]

I have a 1500 Chev Ext cab 4x4 with a 5300 motor and get pretty good mileage with it even towing the boat. We also have a diesel for the race trailer and its a diesel pig as far as miles per gallon. Stuck with it now as they are not worth a hoot used.

[Valv]

Fishnhuntnboy, 300 miles/week is approx 16,000 year.

Do the math:

16,000 miles at 12mpg (gas truck) = 1333 gallons x $ 4.00/gal = $ 5332 in fuel cost

16,000 miles at 16mpg (diesel truck) = 1000 gallons x $ 4.80/gal = $ 4800

In the end the difference is $ 500/year savings for buying a diesel truck.

If you find a Dodge as I mentioned it will be slightly more, but the cost of them used is almost twice as a gas model.

[BoxMN]

Isn't a diesel also much more to maintain than a gasser? I remember my buddy talking about $60 oil changes for his powerstroke. Just throwing that in there for consideration as well.

[Valv]

Cost of oil is same as gas, only needs more, but a diesel runs oil longer. Fuel filters are approx $ 10/15 but you replace them at 15,000 miles. Overall I think diesel engines have less maintenance than a gasser, no spark plugs, coils, etc.

I just changed oil on my Dodge, it cost me $ 95 but it was 3 gallons of Amsoil Heavy Duty marine oil + filter, this will last me 15,000 miles (next month). My wife's Trailblazer with a 5.3 V8 was $ 35 but will last 5000 miles

[jltimm]

Yeah, the powerjokes take more oil than the Dodge Cummins or the Chevy (Isuzu) Duramax if I remember correctly. Those that own them can tell you how much oil they take.

[LMITOUT]

10 qts for the Duramax. I do my own maintenance so that brings the cost down too.

I've owned newer gas powered trucks and now diesel, and the gas trucks can't touch the milage the diesel can get. Plus you're getting twice the power from the diesel.

I'm looking forward to the new 1/2 ton Chevys with the smaller Duramax coming out soon. The milage should be outstanding with a better ride than the HD's.

[fishnhuntnboy]

so realisticly getting a diesel would be the better buy and will last longer than gas.

[harvey lee]

Not all diesel Chevy's are goods at mileage. my sons 2005 Duramax is a fuel pig. Before he did alot of work to the motor, he got 7-8 mpg towing the race trailer. The same as his gas Chevy.

Now throw in to the mix the price for a gallon of diesel and the extra dollars for the diesel motor when it was purchased new, bad deal for sure.

[iffwalleyes]

If you can find a Chevy with a LB7 duramax motor you will be the best mileage they have gotten. These are in the 2001-early 2003. All duramax since then keep getting slightly less mileage. I like my duramax 02 but I won't be buying another one due to the price and I have had quite a few problems with mine. The cost to fix heavy duty truck is up there. I don't get that much better mileage than a 1/2 ton will get. Now if you are going to go with a heavy duty truck 3/4 or better then the gas motors in those won't get very good mileage. The 5300 vortec is one of the best motors out there for power and mileage. I likely will have one of these in my garage again when I buy. They have great power and will put any average boat out there with no issues.

[DinkADunk]

Question fishnhuntnboy. Are you satisfied with the towing manners of your current tow vehical? If you are, and that vehical is gas, and probably a 1/2 ton truck of some sort, then you'll probably be best served with something similar. The diesel option is generally limited to 3/4 ton trucks and larger (i.e. 2500, 2500, 4500, etc). The diesel really shines when you're asking a truck to pull larger loads (say a camper and a boat, 5th wheel, BobCat, etc), reasonable loads over rough/steep terain, or lots of miles (say 50000/year). When asked to do this level of work the better fuel mileage of the diesel and their powercurve advantage (great lowend torque) over gas really shine. However, you will pay much more for the motor which can make the economics a bit iffy (only of real concern if you earn your living from your truck). Now, the upcoming 1/2 ton GM with a baby Duramax should be a very interesting vehical and will probably earn a bunch of converts to diesel. Myself I chose a 2500HD, Duramx/Allison truck last year because I plan on hauling much heavier loads in the next couple of years (renting RV trailers this year to see what we like, probably purchase next year or two), haul them up mountains, and on reasonably long trips. Eventhough my truck is a daily driver, the only commute I have is from my bedroom downstairs to my office - don't need to drive for work

[ChuckN]

I went with a diesel 7.3 F-250. Empty in the summer, light winds I push over 20mpg, but I don't drive empty much. Cooler temps will drop the mileage considerably.

I would never want to commute with the truck, and it's been doing a lot of sitting lately. That's fine by me. I bought it to tow heavy loads including my boat and a full size PU camper. I wanted more power and I definitely got all the power I need with this truck.

Personally, most, if not all 1/2 ton trucks can tow the big boats just fine. Diesels can get mighty spendy when things go wrong. My 7.3L takes around 15 quarts of oil and if I change it myself I'm looking at an easy $60 for oil/filter. At a shop, it's more like $85-$100. Horribly messy job too removing the filter...a Rotella bath is not cool. Never had that problem with any gasser oil change.

[DinkADunk]

Well, I run a slightly extended drain interval on mine, get a reasonable discount on fluids, spend wisely on filters (i.e. don't get them at the stealer), and give my dealer $26 to change the oil, filters (oil and external trans), and rotate the tires. I hate the mess, and figure $26 is worth it, I just give them the supplies.

[fishnhuntnboy]

Dink a dunk-

I dont have a tow vehicle right now. I have a car right now and want to get rid of it. I have been using my dads truck and it just likes to suck the gas. He has a ford explore and it seems like he doesnt get good mileage at all. I tow the boat about 3-4 times a week until school starts back up in ely. So really I only drive alot during the summer months. I am leaning towards the gasser as in I have realized that I really dont need the diesel and everyone has made me realize it. Which I am thankfull of as that will save me a ton of money

[rtwills]

The only thing no one has commented on is chipping the diesel. We have a ford3500 that we use for towing and did the power programmer on it,and upped the power drastically and improved gas mileage by almost 4mpg when towing.without towing the truck gets low 20's. the chips run about 600-800.00 but i think are wort it in the long run if you want a diesel.

[harvey lee]

The diesels are great for towing with the power. Now, figure out the added cost of fuel, chipping and different exhaust that will help improve mileage and what has one saved? Thats not counting in the difference for the added costs when you purchase the diesel with the extra motor cost and maybe a different tranny. Then, the added costs for repairs.

I just cannot see any advantage after driving one of these trucks.

[DinkADunk]

chipping, removing DPF's, and other similar mod's are a good way to void your warantee. Oh yes, and if you return the program back to stock you can still tell that the ECM has been reprogrammed. Play if you want but be prepared to pay! Since I still have a lot of time and miles left on my warantee I'm not willing to eat the cost of a new engine or transmission by throwing a programmer on it.

[Scott K]

Programers are a cheap and quick way to get more power and increase fuel economy. Some engines considerably more then others. I am not recommending a programer while your truck is under warranty, but its real hard to prove that there was one installed. They can suspect it if the computer has a loss of memmory code in it, but they cant prove or void warranty without proof. Most shops dont care, let them know upfront! One more thing its not the chip that breaks stuff, it is your foot in the gas with the added power that breaks it!

[LMITOUT]

If someone feels the programmer is leaving evidence on the ECM (which isn't the case, nor detectable by the dealer), then the Edge Juice is perfect. It doesn't program the ECM and just intercepts the signals going to the injectors, modifies the signal, and then sends them on their way again. When you need to take it to the dealer it can be unplugged and returned to stock in mere minutes.

[Scott K]

You would still get the p0605, 603 code, which just tells me that the pcm lost memmory, and tells me you just removed your programmer, or had disconnected the pcm or battery. Like I said, I can suspect it, I am not dumb, I know why that code is in there, but I cant prove that that you didnt just have the battery disconnected, or you left your headlights on, and the battery went dead.

[DinkADunk]

If someone feels the programmer is leaving evidence on the ECM (which isn't the case, nor detectable by the dealer), then the Edge Juice is perfect. It doesn't program the ECM and just intercepts the signals going to the injectors, modifies the signal, and then sends them on their way again. When you need to take it to the dealer it can be unplugged and returned to stock in mere minutes.

Not true about the programmer with some of the new trucks. You can use a Tech2 on new GM trucks to determine if the ECM has been flashed and what id numbers were of the last 9 (IIRC) flashes. The popluar tuners (Quad, EFILive, etc) can be detected even if you reload a stock tune. So, some folk's change out ECM's. Well you can sort of detect that, just look at the total number of regen's, should be around 1 per tank. What you say about the inline units (like a Banks) is true in that they just fool the ECM. Pull them out and take to the dealer and things should be good. However, in case of a warranty claim about a major engine malfunction there are other signs of an aftermarket tuner that can be looked for (spray patterns, EGT probes, etc) and if you run afoul of that you're likely to have your warranty clain denied - same goes for the tranny. If you want to play be prepared to pay !.

[Valv]

LMITOUT we are busted !!!!!