Hugo Farms WMA

[hugonian1]

There sure seems to be a lot of mis-information here.

I live in Hugo on a 40 acre parcel. I hunt deer, turkey, pheasants, ducks on my property so this issue is close to my heart. I watch the city council meetings. The city is not driving this issue. The petition to not allow hunting on the WMA was started by landowners adjacent to the WMA. Surprise?

A counter petition was then started to in essence allow hunting to continue. The Council is required by law to accept the petitions. None of this was brought about by the Mayor or Council. Unfortunately the farm fields of Hugo are one by one becoming housing developments. The face of rural Hugo is fast changing. Several on the Council are avid sportsmen and large landowners. Because of the petitions they are being forced to review the ordinance. I have not heard one word of support of a ban from the Council. Ultimately the DNR controls the WMA and what happens on it. I am sure the day will come when some level of hunting restrictions are adopted. This will be driven by development, growth, and new residents who do not hold the traditions of the past close to their hearts. I agree all who can should sign the petition that allows hunting to continue. It is important to show there are a significant number of individuals who support the current ordinance. Otherwise those that want the ban will prevail.

[Tom7227]

Just to the north in May Township there has been a huge fight about some guy trying to sell 11 acres to the DNR. If I understand correctly it is land that is basically landlocked by an existing WMA. Somehow the Township and/or Anoka County were able to block the sale using an argument about the loss of taxable property.

There have been issues also surrounding Carlos Avery where development around there has blocked hunting on portions due to the 500 foot rule.

About 10 years ago the Bald Eagle Sportsmen's Club was in danger of losing the use of a major portion of their land for the gun club. Adjacent land that was in the City of Grant was being plated for development and houses were proposed to go close to the fence of BESA, again causing a 500 foot problem. The then Grant mayor stopped it.

Any WMA, SNA or whatever is at great risk due to development. Small tracts simply have a huge risk of being overcome.

[Sandmannd]

IMO if you are going to buy a home that butts up to a WMA you better know what you are getting into. My Brother-in-law butts up to Carlos and he loves it. If you are moving there, don't expect change because you spent money. Buy somewhere else if you don't like the idea.

[Tom7227]

Today's paper reported that the attempt to ban hunting was defeated on a voice vote last night at the Hugo Council meeting. Mayor Miron was the one who had made the original motion and it was pointed out in the article that he and some family members live nearby. Seems to me that his conflict is based on a desire to keep real estate values high so he can sell off his farm some day.

By the way, the white and red gas station - bait shop that's been mentioned is Bald Eagle Quick Stop. The lady that owns it, Danny, is great and it's a good place for bait and the gas prices are usually as low as they can go. They always have wood tip Swishers so it's my spot for supplies.

[hugonian1]

As I stated previously, there is sure a lot of mis-information in this thread.

Back to the facts.

I watched the meeting last night which in it's self is a little sick.

Sorry Tom7227, but what you state did not happen nor is it what the newspaper reported.

An ordinance committee reviewed the request/ petition that came from the public sector requesting a ban on discharging firearms on public property.

The committee reccomended the current ordinane allowing firearms to be discharged on public lands not be changed.

That being said the Council did not even need to vote on the matter. Status quo. No vote taken.

The rationale the ordinance committee had was by law you currently cannot discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a residence anyways. They looked ay Bald Eagle Lake and determined based on the 500'rule it would be difficult to leagally hunt there.

The same 500'rule applies to the WMA.

The motion Mayor Miron made was to request city staff to look at what affect the current 500' rule has specifically related to the WMA. This motion was defeated.

Again, at no time did any council member speak 1 word in support of any type of ban.

It is apparent the landowners adjacent to the WMA who drove the petion for the ban are not done. Also, I am sure enforcement of the current ordinance will be an issue as we move forward.

[BoxMN]

They looked ay Bald Eagle Lake and determined based on the 500'rule it would be difficult to leagally hunt there.

Hugonian, thanks for the firsthand info.

Regarding BE hunting, apparently they did not look at an aerial view image with a scale-ruler or actually go out into the lake and use rangefinders to see exactly how far actual hunting areas are from homes

Hopefully status quo will remain, the way it should be.

-edit: after some emailing with DNR downtown about specifically waterfowl hunthing, those people who are complaining about hunters too close to their homes on BE should probably just quick yacking about it or the hunters will start to research like I did, and find what the real regualtions, or at least the DNR position on it, and then the banging will get even closer. There is no set distance to stay away if waterfowl hunting over water I am not going to sit on anyones dock or shore, but this certainly opens up lots of water that I had stayed away from in the past. But I certainly don't want poor relations, but for the lady yelling at hunters on BE last year, this year she is going to get called on for harassing hunters...

[Tom7227]

First of all I would like to thank Hugonian for correcting me. I relied on the PP which I think had the jest of the story correct - no change was the result.

As far as shooting closer than 500 feet, I think Minn. Stat. 97B.001 creates a problem that I wouldn't want to deal with. As far as folks complaining on Bald Eagle - guess folks are going to be concerned both ways. I'm not sure that yell constitutes harassment though.

[BoxMN]

I am just reporting what the DNR and CO has told me. Also, nowhere in Minn. Stat. 97B.001 does it mention water, it is all about land, not sure if that is why the DNR says different. I have asked for the regulation specific to it, and heard nothing back yet.

-edit: Question - is a public lake a "public right-of-way"? If so, then it does mention that in the statute.

As for harassment, if I get yelled at, I am just going to call the CO and let her deal with it. If I get the ticket, so be it, but I have plenty of proof that the DNR has told me I can.

I wish we could get accurate and consistent info from our law officials, as I bet anything they don't even know... how are we supposed to when we go to them for the answers. Same with tresspass law, I bet everbody knows the jist of it, but not the details. Again, I learned some of it from a friend who was a metro CO, and many would be surprised. - but, it all comes down to who is writing a ticket and how much the landowner knows.

Mind you, I am not a tresspasser, and go out of my way to keep good relations with landowners, so don't wnat to tick off BE residents... but when people move to an area that has a history of hunting, that doesn't mean they have a right to change the laws or get their way without going through proper channels. Seems like both sides are going through proper channels, will have to see how it ends up. By that time I will move north

[mpester]

BoxMN - Come on - don't tell these people you follow the rules! We were sitting right at the end of that dock over a pile of corn last season shooting ducks after they landed on the water and we were only 50' from that house. Just kidding. Now that you have started talking about the 500' rule, I have tried to do some research. It is nearly impossible to get an answer, from any official or on any web page, which tells you where to find the law saying duck hunting is legal within 500' of a structure. I am going to go by what two CO's have told us and I will hunt where I feel I am safe and will not hit a house. I wish I could hunt those fields between my house and Imation for ducks and geese.

[hugonian1]

It is sure interesting how Conservation Officers and Building Code Officials have so much lattitude for interpretation. I am sure glad it is not that way for our law enforcement.

Keep in mind Hugo has a City ordinance adopted in 1998:

Ordinance 1998-326 States: A person may not take a wild animal with a firearm within five hundred (500) feet of a building occupied by a human or livestock anywhere in the City.

Is a duck leagally considered a wild "änimal"?

It is going to be interesting this fall. I think the C.O.'s are going to have their hands full.

[Tom7227]

If you use the ruler on Google Earth I think you can find maybe three places where you can hunt BE. IMO the 500 foot rule is going to be the law, either through the above noted ordinance or the state tresspass statute.

My cousin lives on the east side of the lake and claims that pellets have hit his house, likely fired by someone hunting illegally as there is no spot close to their house where a pellet could have come from.

My thought is why push it? All of the classes I've ever taken talk about the 60% of the people who don't have either negative or positive positions on hunting/firearms. Why push people to a side that is opposed to what we want by pushing things to the margin? It would seem that no one is going to win. Based on what I've read about the lawyer that represents the City he is more than willing to push limits on any firearm issue. He pushed the Council to ignore the latest statutes on gun clubs and to continue the restrictions on BESA, something clearly outlawed by the Legislature. The Lino Lakes HSOforum doesn't have their code so I don't know if they have a restriction similar to Hugo.

You can use the point on the west side if you get permission, and that's not likely. Looks like you can use the reed island on the north end, and there may be room there for two groups if they can get along. Other than that, I don't think you can do it legally.

If you want to fight about whether a duck is a wild animal, or whether a lake is a right of way I suggest that you start saving now cause you're going to be dropping a couple of G's on a lawyer.

[MN Greenheads]

It's good to hear that the plan to eliminate hunting in certain areas of Hugo was shot down. I would have fought it in the courts if it was approved. Come on, You select where and where you can't discharge a firearm or hunt within a town and one is a WMA. I'll fight that in a court any day.

The mayor and his group don't like the Hugo Farms WMA, don't let anyone tell you different. They are still complaining about the water levels and would love to drain it again. Why don't we talk to some of the people that were at the Rice Creek Watershed District meetings 2-6 years ago and what they said about the water levels and hunting at Paul Hugo Farms.

The houses that were built on the west side of the area 3-4 years ago are way to close. If someone gets a pellet dropped on there house that's what you get when you build something that close to a WMA. If you live on a golf course expect a few errant balls,f you butt up against a WMA plan on a few pellets dropping in.

A Big Thanks to all who fought for hunting.

[BoxMN]

BTW - just wondering, but can anyone tell me if Bald Eagle Lake is White Bear Township or Lino or Hugo?

Thanks,

-Box

[mpester]

BoxMN - Bald Eagle is in all three TWP's. The Ramsey County section is White Bear TWP. The section in Washington County is Hugo TWP. The small section in Anoka County is in Lino Lakes TWP.

Tom7227 - If I am duck hunting on the water, I do not need permission to hunt a point. All I need to do is be in the water below the mean high water mark and partially concealed in the shoreline vegetation. Now if that point has a home close to the shoreline, I would not hunt too close to the home but I could legally do it if I were a jerk. If I were to step out of the boat onto dry land above the mean high water mark, then I would be trespassing. If I were to drop a bird onto the private property, I am allowed to retrieve the bird but I can not bring the gun with me.

Man do the hunting rules in this state give me a headache. Where I grew up in Maryland, the rules were much easier to understand. You needed to apply for a blind stake before the season and that was where you could hunt. You could get as many stakes as you wanted at about $10 each. No other person could hunt within 1000' of your stake. Shoreline owners had priority to the areas in front of their land. I did not like the rule but it was easy to understand and you did not need to get up so early to get a spot because you knew no one was going to be in the spot you wanted.

[mpester]

I was slightly incorrect about retrieving a downed bird.

The 2007 regulations say "A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not posted to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot, but may not remain on the land after being told to leave." It says nothing about having a gun but it does say I must leave if asked.

Also, is that point on the west shore the one with the blind that is hunted a lot? Is that blind on shore or in the water?

[Tom7227]

BoxMN - Tom7227 - If I am duck hunting on the water, I do not need permission to hunt a point. All I need to do is be in the water below the mean high water mark and partially concealed in the shoreline vegetation. Now if that point has a home close to the shoreline, I would not hunt too close to the home but I could legally do it if I were a jerk. If I were to step out of the boat onto dry land above the mean high water mark, then I would be trespassing. If I were to drop a bird onto the private property, I am allowed to retrieve the bird but I can not bring the gun with me.

I am familiar with the laws regarding tresspass. The blind on the point on the west side of Bald Eagle is a permanent blind on private property. There is no vegetation in front of it and therefore it would be impossible to hunt on that point without permission. In fact it is only 178 feet from a house and so given the Hugo ordinance quoted by Hugonian it would seem doubtful that the blind is legal.

An earlier post may have gotten confused about which lake I was referring as this post has info on both the Hugo Farms WMA and Bald Eagle lake. When I mentioned the pellets hitting the house I was referring to the east side of Bald Eagle lake, and those homes have been there for decades.

Mpester - the thing done in Maryland seems interesting. Was there anything to prevent someone from buying enough stakes to cover a large area? I would think there would be instances where guys would do that, and maybe even go so far as to hire people to sit out there and stop others from hunting. I guess that I just expect the rich guys from DC and Boston would hog all the areas. Does that happen? If not, how come?

[mpester]

Is the blind on BE on land or in the water?

The Maryland thing sounds more interesting than it is. It is a pain. You need to be at the county courthouse in the middle of the night to wait in line to buy you blind site if you want a good spot. If you want to hunt more than one county, you need to go to each different court house. The landowner gets first shot at the water in front of their land. If they do not hunt, anyone can take that spot. If they want to close out the area near them, even if they are not hunters, they just get a blind site post. It is one way the rich and anti-hunters keep the hunter away on public waters. If you are a hunter on a limited budget you may only get a few blind sites per year. If the wind is wrong, the birds may not want to be where you are. Maybe some years the ducks will not want to be where you have picked for all your blinds. The biggest advantage to the way Maryland does it is that you know no late risers are going to hunt too close to you and arrive right at hunting time. You really do need a lot of money to hunt ducks in Maryland. You have a lot less options and a lot less public land. WMA's in Maryland are ridiculously crowded. To top all this off, Maryland does not allow Sunday hunting (but they do sell beer on Sunday). If you take a weekend trip to the Eastern Shore you may get to hunt on Friday afternoon and Saturday but you are heading home on Sunday or going fishing or drinking beer while you watch the Redskins.

[BoxMN]

The blind is on land, and my Mom was very good friends with the Mrs. until she passed away, too young. I don't know them very well, but very nice people who have been there forever.

edit: BTW, I seemed to take the thread away from the WMA topic, and head towards BE duck hunting specifically. Sorry if that changed topic. But very glad to hear that the Hugo "ban" is not going through. I just find it sad when "progress" takes more land away from what it was originally intended for... though that unfortunately is what is happening, and has been happening for hundreds of years, all over with more sprawl.

[mpester]

BoxMN - Do you know what the Washington County firearm discharge rule is? I can not find it on the Washington County page. I emailed the police and have not received a reply.

Lake Elmo TWP has the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person:

A.. To fire, discharge, release, throw or in any other manner propel a weapon within five hundred (500) feet of a residence, whether or not inhabited, or any other structure or building or within five hundred (500) feet of any platted area in the City, except on an approved target range

I will need to find out what the platted area of the city is if I want to hunt on the "secret" lake by my house I may try hunting this year for ducks.

[slimerg0d]

The city of Hugo is putting a 68-acre soccer area right next to the south end of Hugo Farms WMA. City paid over $26,000 to cut down all the trees in a beautiful wild area that was heavily used by wildlife. Last weekend they burned down two buildings creating a toxic waste area and now they are going to put in soccer fields for kid to play on.

The mayor and his neighbor plus 100 closest friends have a petition going around to stop all shooting in the Hugo WMA.

The only thing we (conservationist, hunters, fisherman, outdoor persons) have to do is do nothing and it will happen.

Tink

PS: I walked the whole area last week and seen where they even cut down trees into the edge of the WMA. Past the stakes stuck in the ground with “end of cut area” written on them, which were driven over by the large tree cutter machine as they went into the WMA and cut trees. Guess they won’t be happy until Hugo looks like the every other suburb and all the wild areas are gone.

Where is this going to be? I just moved to Hugo at the end of March.

[Tinkhamtown]

Two miles east of highway 61 on county road 8. Think it is going to be a beautiful soccer park when they get done.

Tink

[slimerg0d]

I live about 2.5 miles east of 8 off 61 *Live on hyde ave*

This is the first I have heard of this... a soccer field???? Ummm, time to start reading the paper I guess.

[BoxMN]

FYI - I talked to a CO this morning and asked him about the 500' while waterfowling, and he said it does not count on water, only on private property. He did say that you must check local ordinances, especially near metro area, but he did say that they (the DNR) does not enforce those rules. So it sounds like the Hugo ordinance on BE is the one that must be followed there.

The CO said that if you are in legal vegetation you and within 500 feet while waterfowl hunting, you might have someone yell at you, but you will be legal and not to worry about it - this is if there are no ordinances prohibiting it, of course.

He also said it is too bad there are not more geese on BE, or the people would be beggin us to shoot them all right form their docks

[skee0025]

I have been contacting my State reps to try and have them sponsor legislation preventing local units of government from taking actions that would effectivly ban hunting on WMA's, like putting soccer fields next to them or allowing the building of residental homes within the 500 ft mark or atleast having the law changed so that if you chose to build within 500 ft, the wma's will be exempt from the 500 foot rule.

[BoxMN]

FYI - bump - but any folks interested, please check the Hugo blotter from last week There are some landowner education discussions being conducted, heh. Check your location and Fire away boys, and shoot some birds.