Bullheads are Catchable - Get the bait tank setup!

[Larry FlatCaster]

WWG

check your PMs and Emails...sent some info.

thanks

[SteveD]

 Originally Posted By: hanso612

So now all we need to figure out is how us regular guys get around the duplicitous nature of allowing bait intended to be fished(possible in another body of water) to be transported by minnow trappers and not allowing fish headed for the frying pan to be trasnported overland in the same water as the minnows.

Just have to ask -again, how does a special permit prevent any of the invasives from spreading?

What exactly did you just say? I don't think you understand the bait harvesting regulations. There is nothing duplicitous about legally harvesting bait minnows.

Point #1: It is legal for a licensed angler to take minnows or leeches for our own personal use with dip nets, traps and seines.

Point #2: Bullheads under 7" and suckers under 12" are minnows and legal for bait. We are harvesting minnows.

Point #3: Minnows and leeches taken from waters infested with Eurasian watermilfoil may only be used for fishing at the body of water where taken. Taking bait from other infested waters and using them is unlawful. Therefore you can harvest bait from non-infested waters. You can catch it and transport it in the water from the non-infested water. There is nothing duplicitous about that.

Point #4: A licensed angler may possess 24 dozen minnows or leeches. 24 dozen = 228 bullheads. I can legally have that many bullheads in my personal bait tank. There is nothing duplicitous about that either.

Everything we are talking about in the bait tank post is legal and above board and clearly in accordance with Minnesota fishing regulations. It is pretty simple and clear - I don't understand why you are characterizing what we are doing as duplicitous.

The Amercian Heritage Dictionary states: Duplicity - Deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech; double-dealing. I know and follow the fishing regulations and take some pride in being an ethical sportsman.

[SteveD]

 Originally Posted By: hanso612

How about cut bait, can you take that same banned 13 inch sucker and use it for cut bait. Do all pieces of cut bait need to under twelve inches or just the live fish?

What page did you find these rules?

Page 3, 2008 Minnesota Fishing Regulations. Definitions - see Minnow definition and also see the Rough fish definition.

Page 8, 2008 Minnesota Fishing Regulations. Using whole or parts of game fish, goldfish, or carp for bait is unlawful.

Page 68, 2008 Minnesota Fishing Regulations. See Minnows and Leeches:

I don't know why you would characterize a 13" sucker as a banned fish. It is still a legal fish, a 13 inch sucker is considered a rough fish. It is unlawful to transport rough fish alive. If that sucker was 12 inches long it would be a minnow and could be transported alive. Since it is 13 inches long you cannot transport it alive (it is a rough fish) - kill it, put it on ice and take it to your favorite channel cat hole and cut it up and use it for cut bait. That is perfectly legal. Rough fish are perfectly legal to be used for cut bait. Just remember it is unlawful to use whole or parts of game fish, goldfish, or carp for bait.

There is no limit on the size of your cut bait. If you want to use a 20" sheepshead for cut bait your individual pieces of cut bait can be any size you want.

[SteveD]

 Originally Posted By: shackbash

P.S.

Stopped by a stream right close to my house and found a ton of 5-10" suckers floating in the current coming out of the culvert.

What would you guys recommend to get some of these for bait? I will verifie they are legal sucks first though.

Shack - I have a similar stream near my house. It is a overflow culvert from a nearby lake. I use a long handled metal smelt net to get at the bait in the stream. The minnows always run up in the culvert when I approach the stream. I just take the smelt net and run it up into the culvert and chase them out and net them on the way out.

Be careful - one time I scooped up in culvert and bent over looking into the culvert and this humongous snapping turtle came cruising out - I about went in my pants as he cruised by my head.

[Shack]

Thanks SD.

I might be hitt'in up in the A.M...

I know what to use now.

You are a world of info.

Thanks dude!

Shack.

[hanso612]

Steve D, right on the money. thanks for posting the rules.

As far as "Banned" I meant not legal to use as live bait. Just an interesting stretch of morality thats it's ok to use a dead fish 13 inches long if it cut,but that it would be illegal to use the same fish if it were alive.

As for "Duplicitious", I used the totally wrong word. I had hypocrytical first but that didn't capture the idea either.

The point I was trying to get across was that it seems like bait harvestors like you or I and liscenced bait dealers get to move water around to keep our bait alive and that is exactly what most of the ramp rules are against. Same water two sets of rules. So what's a good word for that?

All this being said, the biggest point I want to get across is that if we are forced to make these recomendation(great ideas)law,look out for the harmed party to make a lawsuit, a stink, or cry fowl, but more importantly look for the slew of rules to follow to patch loopholes.

If we keep most of these things on the level of strong recomendations we avoid many of these unwanted consequences. I've watched the musky community police themselves for years and it was a huge success. I think the vast majority of us follow these rules because they are a good idea, not because thay are law.Many will argue I know, but my fellow man is smarter than that.

The last thing I want to do is give people a reason not to follow the ramp rules or over exploit the resource but I think it is a lead by example thing versus a legislation thing. And most of all if we the lone fisherman have to be so cognisant than so do the big corporations. There's some duplicity for you.

[hanso612]

In case you haven't noticed I'm trying to get on the daily post leaderboard for the first just to see what it really takes without resorting to meaningless posts. It's way harder than it looks. I don't know how Boilerguy and Stfcatfish, and others who regularly keep this site alive can do it day in and day out. It takes dedication.

A thread that highlights the nuances and fine points of our ever more complicated rule book is always a good refresher before the season starts. I know I've learned a thing or two today. I know for one I've used way to many over length suckers and mooneyes(if the 7 inch rule hold for them)and I'm still loooking up redhorse and other sucker breads to make sure I can tell the difference. So if Dtro can stop posting I can go to bed for the night and stay on the board.

[SteveD]

Hanso612 -

I don't follow your train of thought at all. I'm not much into that hypothetical, conspiracy theory type of thinking. What "Big Corporation" are you are referring to that is duplicitous? You kind of lost me with that statement.

I'm kind of a simple, old Riverrat. I familarize myself with the regulations and ensure that I am within the rules established by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. Those guys have fish biologists and professionally trained fisheries management personnel. I let them steer the ship and I pull on my oar to help it go where they want it to. I do my part by knowing and following the fishing regulations. I consider myself lucky to have such easy access to some of the finest fishing in the country.

I'm not particularily worried about the future of fishing in Minnesota. We do a good job now of managing our resources and I am confident that success will continue into the future for my grandchildren.

[hanso612]

Hey thanks for staying with me. The word "corporation" was just a short cut. What I'm talking about is the shipping industry in general, fish farms could be lumped in there too, but just think how long the post would be if I lumped all that in the sentence. I use way too many comas as it is.

I love a good conspiracy, but don't believe in any of them. What I really think happens is good people try to do the best thing at the time, with the best information at the time, with a limited amount of bias to spin things in there own best interest.

We are blessed in Minnesotsa to have Holsten running the DNR. I went to high school with him and he doesn't miss much and nobody worked harder. The problem is just too little floor time at the capitol is spent on outdoor issues and not enough dollars for research to prepare for the limited amout of floor time so rules get made under stress. I fear more and more DNR decisions are political and not made by the biologists.

Here is where we come in. By bouncing these ideas around the site we get input from all over the place and our oppinions become well informed oppinions. So when we get the ear of a lobbyiest or Holsten himself we can argue for our prefered method or product -whatever, with a good chance that our combined wisdom will be much more persuasive than a lone Hugo woman-and just maybe those in power might be versed in an argument that they followed here and would be able to use it in commitee.

I think Chaudray could have defended his position better on the WMA buffer issue had he tried it out here first.Guys like you could have really helped him out.

[SteveD]

 Originally Posted By: hanso612

... Here is where we come in. By bouncing these ideas around the site we get input from all over the place and our oppinions become well informed oppinions. So when we get the ear of a lobbyiest or Holsten himself we can argue for our prefered method or product -whatever, with a good chance that our combined wisdom will be much more persuasive than a lone Hugo woman-and just maybe those in power might be versed in an argument that they followed here and would be able to use it in commitee.

I think Chaudray could have defended his position better on the WMA buffer issue had he tried it out here first.Guys like you could have really helped him out.

Hello, Hans. Is there anybody in there?

We are talking about bait tanks. You want to hijack this post to organize a grassroots political action committee (PAC). I personally don't go there -

One last point to hopefully put your train of thought to bed and go back to bait tanks. I worry about guys that hunt and fish thinking that they know more about fishery management than the professionals. I'm not sure this forum is the educational tool for creating "well informed" opinions.

As I said, I am a simple Riverrat. I "Trust" with a capital "T" in the system. Let the people that worked their whole life to develop the skill set needed to manage our natural resources just do their job. This is not a personal attack - BUT I don't follow the lead of people who establish their leadership on a fishing forum. I come to the forum for fishing chat and to glean information about fishing. I did not come here to join a PAC.

[hanso612]

Sorry guys, I used a Socratic method asking real questions that highlighted aspects of the currnt rules that I found contradictory or unfair, in the hopes that you would come to the conclusion that adding more laws and restrictions isn't the answer.

I hoped I was speaking to the choir in the cat forum, in a thread about bait collecting. If any group needs to fight to keep bait cheap, legal, and easily available it is us.

I combined two theads with similar ideas as examples,and I'm sure that confused the issue.

So, watch out for new rules they spawn others like crazy and fight like crazy whenever you hear or read an open attack on baitfisherman. Hans

[DTro]

Like Steve has said, the law is the law, whether we like it or not.

Currently we are allowed to harvest bullheads, suckers, and chubs to be used as bait (with restrictions that Steve listed). Until something changes, that is what I intend to do

As of now that is our only option.

In the meantime, I would ask that we try to keep the other stuff in the Outdoor Discussion Forum.

Hey let’s see some more bait tanks. I love to see what people come up with.

[Shack]

I am on the verge, I am on the verge .

I am going to go out and kick some idea's around at the local big box store and see what I can fit together.

Thanks again guys. I might just have some bait tank images of my own next week . I figure before I hit those suckers up, I should build a nice tank first .

[Flaco651]

This isn't the actual pic, but I've got one of these tanks that me and Riverhog turned into a bait tank last season. I have it below the deck in a shaded area. It worked well from May to the beginning of july, but after that it just got too hot out and started seeing more casualties. I then swith it up to a large cooler thats converted to a bait tank in the garage that works well. I use plenty of aeration, but haven't gotten into using a filter yet.

[wastewaterguru]

Hanso, this is not directed at you, but just a few more comments about the bait rules. I just want to make sure there is no confusion because we've had all of these conversations before and most of us that frequent the rivers are well aware of what we can and can't legally do in terms of bait.

Even though we may not agree that the rules are perfect....I think we can all agree that the rules are clear.

Occasionally I observe catfisherman on the rivers who obviously don't know what they can and can't use for bait. That's why we have this HSOforum. That's also why it's important to keep these posts consistent in terms of the bait rules so that we don't potentially create confusion to new catfishing anglers.

Fishing for a large predator fish like flatheads is going to push the limits and intent of the regulations because of the simple fact that one needs to use live bait and it has to be big live bait. Having said that, the rules are clearly written and as follow up to the written rules several folks on this site have specifically been given guidance via email and verbal conversations from the DNR on the intent of the written regulations and everything stated in the previous posts by Steve is accurate.

If somebody doesn't agree with the rules, then please take it up with the DNR directly but please don't try to confuse the folks on here who may be new to this type of angling.

The rules are written........

The rules are clear.........

The rules have already been challenged and verified by members of this site and other sites.......

If anyone gets in trouble following the guidelines posted by Steve, I will stand up with you in court.....as will many others on this site I am sure.

[Scott K]

I will be setting my tank up this weekend, and hopefully filling it up with bait. Mine isnt real technical. Big stock tank, bubbler, filter system. Once every other week, drain some dirty scum off the bottom and refill.

[hanso612]

Dtro, if it gets to thick, feel free to kick it to the agenda post. I should have done it myself when I got you to warn "be carefull what you ask for".

Those bait tanks are awesome and you guys are giving helpfull professional advice on setting them up and running them. I want to make sure you guys will be able to continue to do that-And I just plain want one. But used tankwater is exactly what's under attack by many groups and you cant simultaniuosly hold the view that it is risky and harmful to trasport livewell water and walleye but its ok and safe to transport minnows just because the're minnows. So be prepared to fight for right to do it and the best way is on principle not just beacuse it is currently legal to do so.

I choose to be proactive and attempt to stear policy rather than complane about a law later.

I asked on another post," What have you done to make sure bait stays legal" and got no responses and got bumped to silly land. I would love to just talk fishing and keep quiet and would do it if I thought others were fighting hard on this issue.

Just fight as hard as Peta-that's all I'm asking.Hans

[Scott K]

 Quote:

Just fight as hard as Peta-that's all I'm asking.Hans

I choose to ignore peta! They want attention, and for us to get worked up. If I dont pay atention to them, they dont exist!

[hanso612]

As a general rule I do too, but they are not the only ones. I pretend they don't exist when I have my rod in my hand and bait in the water. The rest of the time I'm lobbying. Hans

[Note from admin: Hanso let's not hijack this thread and get it back on topic. If you wish to discuss these issues further please take it to the Outdoor Discussion Forum. Thanks much.]

[Shack]

 Originally Posted By: Flaco651

This isn't the actual pic, but I've got one of these tanks that me and Riverhog turned into a bait tank last season. I have it below the deck in a shaded area. It worked well from May to the beginning of july, but after that it just got too hot out and started seeing more casualties. I then swith it up to a large cooler thats converted to a bait tank in the garage that works well. I use plenty of aeration, but haven't gotten into using a filter yet.

Man, I heard you are very serious about your bait, but that is a bait tank.

I am going to stick with something in the 50gal range. At first, I would love to have it outside, but the summer temps could be an issue. My garage is very well insulated and stays pretty cool during the hot summer months. I figure if it is going to be a "hot" day, I could just put ice in during the A.M... I have a rather large ice maker and ice would be no prob.

[Flaco651]

Got the tank for free so, decided to turn into a bait tank. The top line shows 175 gals w/ some extra space. We never fill it that high. Highest number of bullheads I had in there at one time was close to 100.

[Shack]

I have been throwing around the idea for a couple days now of what I am going to build for a bait tank. Two things I kept in mind for my tank.

1) Get the most gallons with least floor space.

2) Mobility

I have done some soul searching and read this entire thread a couple times over and this what I came up with:

Here is what I bought:

Cleaned out first.

Made a grove for the cord.

Pre-drilled holes for screws

I mounted my filter three inches down from top. My main idea is portabilty of the tank. The higher the water, it adds weight and the splash would go all over the place. Make sure filter is level for even water flowage. This does not mean it will be eye level with the top rim on a rubber main tank.

From the get go, I wanted the air pump to be part of the unit. I also did not want anymore noise than possible. So I found a spot to mount and drilled a hole.

Next, I used a snap ring to mount air pump to tank.

Next drill the holes for the air tubes. Make sure they the coreect sized holes for tube. To small, you will not get threw good, to big water can leak out when you move the tank.

Next, pull tube threw and connect your air stone.

Inside view.

Backside view.

Next, clean out any shavings inside tank from drilling. Then fill with water.

The other item that is nice to have is a thermometer.

System up and running.

For now, I am keeping water level right under filter. The manufacture says the back side can get wet, but nothing about under water. I figure it is a water pump and the same as the garden fountain sump pump I have, but I will check into it some more before I fill tank any higher. Also it is a very good idea to run this system on a ground fault protection circuit.

Everything running now.

This is what she looks like from the outside when all is said and done.

All in all, it costed a little over a hundo to build. I figured I was not fishing, I could not make it to BP tonight, what better to do on a Friday night. I only need a system to hold about 3-4 dozen bullies right now and I think this should work. Bullies are easy and close by to get for me and adding some every other week beets going down before every trip to the river.

Any corrections will be appreciated. I have a couple all ready my self. I am going to upgrade my air stones first thing. We see how it goes, but some fine tuning and adjustments might be in future. A tube of aquarium silicone will fix corrections just fine.

Now I have to catch some bait.

Again guys thanks for the help. I tell ya, I will be buying a tank like Flaco has next year

[goblueM]

awesome man!! Looks great, thanks for the pics. The only thing I would change would be the surface area of the bottom - I know you wanted the least floor space taken up as possible. But I dunno if the bullheads will use the whole water column, they'd probably be happiest with half as much water volumn but twice as much area on the bottom. Then again, they're bullheads, they can live in anything

[harvey lee]

Josh, looks like you are in the bully business. Nice looking set up.

[Tim Boomgarden]

I think that I am going to use my 55 gal aquairium (?) since it is all set up and has no fish in it yet!!!!