upcoming ohm, atv trails around metro

[Kodiak]

is there any rumblings of any trail systems being developed? how do you get involved with the metro group pushing for a trail.

[Roofer]

Sorry to say, but the only things I know of is getting a club into a project or fighting with the dnr for what you want. ATVAM is doing this for us and that's all we can do. The dnr site shows the meeting times if there are any, but it's pretty quiet. If it's anywhere near the metro, you can count OHM's out definitely. Some people have been working for years on this. The only way, is way out in the wilderness, still there are people that whine, even though they have never set foot there.

Either go North or East to wisconsin to have any place bigger than a back yard to ride.

[Dave]

 Originally Posted By: Roofer

Sorry to say, but the only things I know of is getting a club into a project or fighting with the dnr for what you want. ATVAM is doing this for us and that's all we can do.

Roofer, you could also join a club ATVAM has clubs listed on its HSOforum. I believe some north metro clubs are working on getting trails approved to connect to northern trails but, like Roofer said, it's a lot of work and red tape in which ATVAM is helping with.

[Kodiak]

i would like to try to get that trail from chaska to jordan along the river through the woods turned into a atv trail, it is snowmobile and horse only right now,,but it would be nice, since we pay for it too become atv also.

[Da Beak]

I'm there with you on that Kodiak!

[Dave S]

one hang up with this is if it runs along the river, does the trail fall within the ordinary high water mark. I'm guessing that it doesn't. I went on a ride along with some MNDOT and DNR officials to get the ditch along 169 opened as an ATV trail. It was left on someone's desk and I'm guessing it was filed under "G" after she left the DNR.

We also discussed the possibility of this trail opening up to ATV traffic. They weren't too fond of the idea because of the amount of horseback riders, hikers, bird watchers, berry pickers, campers, and tree huggers that use these trails.

What had me frustrated is there are other trails that are multi-use in the state without too many issues. It's more a matter of all users respecting each other, being responsible, and taking care of the trails.

[Kodiak]

i feel we in the metro need to make a HUGE push towards opening this trail up for multi use......

[PoorWordUsage] i would pick berries, camp, bird watch and photgraph if i could ride my atv 15 miles in the river valley!!! you could pack your camping gear and stuff...what could be greater than riding in and camping?!?!

[Dave S]

there was a club in Belle Plaine that eventually merged with the club in Shakopee if I remember right. I have a small club in Le Sueur that hasn't been too active lately.

One of the biggest things that prevents new trails from being established by smaller local entities is the increasingly harder to come by, almighty dollar.

Yes the trail is already there and there shouldn't be too much to do to make this ready for atv's. But I agree that we need to push the DNR to open this trail. There is nothing worth riding in this part of the state. If it means that someone has to drag a box scraper behind their atv to groom the trails, then so be it. There would be no shortage of people who would step up to do this.

[Kodiak]

the thing is.........WE PAY for owning our atvs'

what do "WE" get out of it????

[Kodiak]

how do we push them to open the trail?

another problem is that the trail runs through the wma lousiville swamp unit doesnt it? but still they run snowmobiles in there.

[Da Beak]

Kodiak,

Is there a map of this trail online anywhere?

[Dave S]

there might be a map on the MN DNR site for snowmobile trails.

I do believe that the snowmmobile trail does go through the Louisville Swamp.

"swamp" being the key word there. ATV's + swamps = NO GO!!! If there is a way to skirt around the soft/wet terrain, it might be a possibility.

The biggest concerns are going to be people riding off trail. Snowmobiles going off trail in the winter time I don't think receive as much GUFF as ATV's do because in their respective seasons, ATV's will do more damage. Property owners will adamantly fight against the ATV crowd if there is a fear of people going where they don't belong.

I don't like it any more than the rest of you. But until we can get all riders in check and show that we are a respectable group, this trail won't open to ATV's.

[Kodiak]

 Originally Posted By: Da Beak

Kodiak,

Is there a map of this trail online anywhere?

no but if you go to google maps and virtually follow the river from chaska to jordan that is basically the trail through the woods it would be a great ride and would be about 15miles or so. Actually i think it starts in shakopee.

who do we write?

[Dave]

Write your state legislators

[Da Beak]

Well, I went to the DNR HSOforum and found the snowmobile Trail Map, and it shows the trail from Shakopee to Belle Plaine. They have it marked as a Asphalt State Trail - Studded Restrictions. ??

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/maps/snowmobiling/map8.pdf

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/maps/snowmobiling/companion_page.pdf

I guess start with inquiring with the DNR. Dunno.

[Kodiak]

yes that is the trail i am talking about, we should make a metro push and all show up and get this thing pushed through!

[Big Dave2]

First of all Kodiak, if there is no ATV club in Chaska then you should definately join the one in Shakopee. That is your best bet, there is strength in numbers.

I was a member of the Belle Plaine club who merged with the Shakopee club as Lep mentioned. BTW Hi Dave how's it going?

Anyway, they could fill you in on what has already been done on this project. I actually organized a meeting with 2 DNR representatives to talk about this very Idea and a few others. We were told at this meeting that it may be a lot easier to start with obtaining a trail along 169 from shakopee to Jordan to start with and then expand it. As far as I know this may still be in the works. We were also told that since the snowmobile trail that you talk about is a STATE trail, there is almost NO way that it will ever be opened up to ATVs.

You have to start somewhere and show the DNR that you are serious and committed long term to maintaining a trail system, then and only then will your group be considered for larger trail systems.

There is a lot of work to be done to get ATV trails in the metro area but there are possibilities if everyone works together to achieve our goal. It will take a lot of time, work and effort and many are not able or willing to put in the time neccessary to do this. I am one of them. It just got so confusing and takes up too much time to do all of the leg work and go through all of the red tape, and I wasn't even hardly doing any of it. I guess I figure now that it is just easier to go up north.

Good Luck

[Dave S]

Doing good Big Dave.

The ditch along 169 would be a good option for a trail. The only downside to this is the fact there are several who already wander off this trail onto private property. I don't know the condition of it, but if there could be some way that we could get the pit opened up by Shakopee, there would at least be a destination to go to.

That was another thing that had both the DNR and MNDOT baffled is they couldn't believe that someone would come to this trail to ride if there was no attraction or destination.

After this whole fiasco was over and I had time to think about it, it's almost like they had no desire to follow throuhg in establishing a trail in our area. Again, it all goes back to the money issue.

I've got an awesome pit near my place, but the owners won't sell it. I know that would draw a couple hundred machines on a good weekend.

Look what Bauer's pit did for the area in Faribault. There was easily 200 machines per day both Saturday and Sunday out there when people were able to ride there. At least until Rice County shut it down because they (the owners) didn't have a permit or insurance to operate the pit in that manner.

[Big Dave2]

Alot of the problem is we have an awful lot of city folk moving into our neck of the woods these days and want to change the way things are done in our outlying semi-metro areas.

Did you read the article in the sunday paper about snowmobiles? If these people can make headway in limiting snowmobiles, there is no hope for ATVers.

I'm just afraid that if we did get an established trail here all it would do is attract a bunch of hoodlums who would tear things up and make the rest of us look bad. I would like to hope this wouldn't happen but that may be wishfull thinking.

[Roofer]

That problem could be curved easily.

Established trail systems that are patrolled. I think then, the yups would be happier with it.

Every single time I have been out riding, I have seen a violation of one law or another by other groups or individuals. Imagine the money the state would bring in from this. I'm not a huge fan of authority, but it's the only way to make ourselves (good atv'ers) look better.

[Big Dave2]

The only problem with that is you have to spend more money on the "patrollers" than what it will bring in. The state does not have the budget to fund more enforcement. Look at the few DNR conservation officers we have to patrol all of our lakes and woods in the whole state of minnesota.

The nay sayers will just argue that they don't want thier tax money going to something that they don't want anyway. They will say that if you just don't put in the trail, you won't have to worry about coming up with extra funds to patrol it.

Needless to say, this is a very uphill battle.

[Dave S]

I agree Roofer. I have always been of the belief that the only way that we can limit the amount of damage to our sport is to establish substantial fines for those breaking the laws. Hit them where it hurts the most, the wallet. I say after the 3rd OHV/OHM/ATV offense of any type, confiscate the machine. Plain and simple.

I say anyone who would oppose this measure are no better than the offenders themselves. But that may be kicking a hornets nest. Either way, I'm ready to take my medicine for this one even though it's only my opinion. Keep that in mind. But the laws need to be written in a fashion so the average "Joe" (not intended to be a slam to you Roofer) can understand the laws. The laws should be the same from Elm Creek in Trimont up to the Red Dot on the north shore.

People may say it's the bigger machines out there such as the 650cc and larger machines causing the damage. I don't care if it's a 1500cc machine out there on the trails!!! The bottom line is the operator is the one who's doing the damage. Not the machine. Not the tires. Not the sport machines. Not the utility machines. THE OPERATOR!!!!!!!!!!

As far as patrolling the trails, if we could only get legislation passed to start the ambassador program in MN or some variant that would allow other "DNR Trained" staff to do the patrolling. Heck, if they would take on board some PT officers, I would go through the law enforcement course myself and spend more time on the trails. We just don't have enough law enforcement out there to keep an eye on every trail.

[Roofer]

With authority comes responsibility. If the DNR wants to mandate, they should be doing it on a regular basis. I don't think it should be "our" problem to fix.

The Forests are run and governed by the state and DNR. Why not charge admission to the good trails?

Most of the damage I have observed is from logging state land.

LEP, you have seen the road that goes to my cabin. It is more rutted and has more standing water than any trail in MN. It is legal to drive there though because the County won't spend the money to fix the road. Wierd, huh??

[Roofer]

BTW, Big Dave, not trying to argue, just having good conversation.

[Dave S]

The DNR does charge us admission into the trails in the form of our registration dollars that increased in '07.

The logging trucks and skidders have made a helluva mess by your cabin. No atv in the world can do that much damage.