Electonics affect on ability

[Fluker]

Ray and I didn't want to hijack the Christmas List post, so moving this discussion to it's own thread.

So Ray, your comment is that electonics (GPS/Depthfinder, etc.) will not immediately affect ones ability as a fisherman, but over time it would.

If we are speaking of novice anglers who may not know how to run a GPS / Depthfinder, I will agree. However, for seasoned anglers, I disagree and would state that improvements in electronics will immediately affect their ability and improve it more over time. Of course adding the caveat that I'm speaking to deep water fishing.

Let's use a couple examples.

First off, 2 years ago I purchased a 2nd LCX 15MT unit to replace my x87 that I had up front. With this, I was running LCX 15MT's on console and bow. This provide immediate positive affect on my ability to catch fish by allowing me to stay on the "spot on the spot" more efficiently. Not to mention other reasons for improved effecientcy (tracking, etc). Now granted, maybe other methods also could have done the same (buoy), but to me, this was an immediate impact.

A second example which relates more to the previous discussion of "upgrading" electronics. In June of this year I fished with a club member who had a 332/520 set up on his boat. These units were incredible and allowed us to see inactive (arches) and active (lines) fish. This allowed us to determine if we needed to fish fast or slow in the given area. It seems too simple to be a difference maker, but I promise you it was key. (I won the tourney by more than 5 lbs) My older units will not show the level of detail that these units do, no matter how I configure them. (Just a note that this angler used the same approach on a touch day of fishing in Sept to win another club tournament)

As Ray said, it's a start to a long winter, so all in good fun. )

Fluker

[Ray Esboldt]

I will wholeheartedly agree with your post above. An experienced angler will benefit from knowing how to use their electronics effectively. However, electronics are not a shortcut to making an inexperienced angler more competent. Here's my thoughts on electronics (depth finders, GPS, and other measurement guages) in general, and you could really apply them to any piece of equipment:

1) Electronics cannot replace time on the water. And, I'm talking time on the water over the course of many years.

2) Electronics can distact from a task at hand - namely find and boat fish. Electronics don't always expose where the fish live, and they don't generally expose how to extract them. However, Fluker's example above was a good illustration on how both can be put together with good use of electronics. In simple terms, don't blow off an area because your electronics tell you there is a lack of fish.

3) Electronics should not influence judgement and instinct. Part of what time on the water should develop is some instinctual tendencies (i.e. the fish may be doing this here because of the current conditions). And, stating the obvious, never fly by your electronics in low visibility conditions. We all are aware of that...I think.

4) Electronics can (Contact Us Please) your ability to learn. I might be the only one that believes this, but instant gratification from shared waypoints or simply returning to your same old secret spot name "Number One" on your waypoint list really can undermine an opportunity to learn and grow as an angler. A tough day on the water is an opportunity.

5) Having high end electronics (or any for this matter) is not a solution or the solution. Electronics are not plug and play devices. If you don't learn their capabilities and incapabilities, you'll never use them in a manner that makes you a more efficient angler.

I could list a few others if I thought longer about it. Now, with all the don'ts on the list above, there really is a do in all of them. They all translate to electronics are devices that can make you more a efficient fisherman. No doubt about that in my mind. However, I have yet to see them make any fisherman more competent.

So, since as both Fluker and I said, it's a long winter. I would really like to hear other angler's spins on how electronics fit into their time on the water. I welcome the opportunity to be educated on the subject. I ain't to old to learn yet, and I for darn sure don't know anywhere near everything I need to know.

[cjac]

Thoughts from a recreational bass angler, in general a recreational angler, but maybe a bit more of a muskie guy than anything else.

Best move I made was putting my Vexilar FL-18 on my bow as my front end equipment. Kind of old school for a mid-30s guy but I love it. A non-stop learning process but a fun and rewarding one.

I'm getting to the point where I can tell soft from hard bottom, weedline edge, thick (milfoil) or what I'll call natural weeds. I can tell fish if I'm vertical jigging 'eyes deep and how they are reacting to my presentation. Sometimes it' subtle movement, sometimes it's a quick jerk. Also, how much to lift it up, how close to bottom, etc. I have yet to carry this into deep bass with great success, like drop shotting for instance, but it's a work in progress.

I do have a GPS on the bow, but the flasher helps me read the spot on the spot in detail. My school of thought is if they're that good on hard water, they must have some merit for open water conditions too.

Bottom line, it's fun for me and I don't have the deepest pockets for all the latest stuff and for two of everything. Sure, a MAV camera unit would be great, so would a 112, but I make do with what I have (and make the mortgage!) and see improvement in my results. So in a winded reply, it has helped me be a better angler. I have a better feel for the little details of the spots and structure I'm on.

Funny story, I was muskie fishing and it was a bit into the day, so maybe a little lazy.... Finishing a retrieve with a Suick and I happen to glance at the Vex as I lazily pull the Suick from the water. I see a big thick red line at 3 feet, sure enough I look to see the tail "goodbye wave" from a muskie that followed that I wasn't paying close enough attention to. So, it reminded me to finish every cast! I made sure to finish from there on and I got one on the figure 8 later that day, so in that case it did make me a better angler!

Yeah, it's going to be a long winter. Good post, hope to read and learn more here...

Chris

[10,000 Casts]

Fluker, Ray and Chris all made very good points. Fluker, great post about the lines vs archs, alot of people don't know that.

My Electronics certainly make me a better fisherman. For me, being a 99% Muskie Guy, I hardly ever run on my sonar screen, only when trolling I really depend on my mapping with my overlay data (depth in the top right corner)so I can get to a spot and work it as efficiently as possible and get out of there as possible. There was a couple of nights on Leech this year that were down right scary, I wouldn't have even attempted it with out my electronics, so it helped me put more time on the water and it paid off.

Now for ice fishing, I have my LMS522 with the Lakemaster ready to go for Winnie next week . I have never fished it before but I can go up there and fish with confidence. Just after a little scouting and a little common knowledge. Without that chip and my GPS, I would get lost out there, now I can say, look at that inside turn next to deep water, or look at that big flat with drop offs on both sides. When I get there, If I don't see anything on the Vexi in a half hour, its time to move to the next spot which I can get to alot faster.

All in all I think that electronics do make you a better fisherman. Especially on big water and new water.

My experiment....

Take the Best Professional tournament fisherman and have a tournament with no electronics on day 1 and then let them use there electronics on the second day. If we had similar conditions on both days, I would certainly think that the catch on day 2 would be much higher.

It's an interesting thought...

[Deitz Dittrich]

My short .02$ on the subjet...

There are 2 kinds of bass anglers out there. Those that pound visable structure(people who primarily pound shoreline and fish the banks) and those that fish off shore.

Guys that hit shoreline stuff, may not need the top of the line eletronics, sure its nice to know bottom contnet in areas, but serisously, your throwing your lure at stuff you can see...

Off shore guys, I think need the good stuff. Eletronics have come along ways in the last few years, learning how to use it, will make you a better angler. That said, there are some older angers who use older equipment and will still out fish the young guys who have "the goods"... You cant buy yourself into a better angler. You can only speed the process up. Time on the water is key!

[Ray Esboldt]

Quote:

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Best move I made was putting my Vexilar FL-18 on my bow as my front end equipment. Kind of old school for a mid-30s guy but I love it.

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Cjac,

You're my kind of guy. Of the electronics I have in my boat, my flasher on my bow is the one that I rely on the most.

And, I too would be interested in a no electronics event. And, I agree. Depending on the lake, I would expect the weights to be higher the day that they can use electronics.

[Deitz Dittrich]

I think it would depend on the lake.. I have fished quite a few days without turing my finders on.

[st.crioxfishin]

Here is my take on things; which may as well just be a reaffirmation of whats been mentioned already.

I have a 15ft boat with a 30hp tiller on the back. Up until this past summer I had a really old depthfinder that wouldn't read when you got over a patch of weeds or if there was a chop on the lake that day. Needless to say I have been pretty much glued to the bank . Fishing deep was out of the question if I wasn't on a lake that I knew really well.

I finally went out and upgraded to a simple lowrance depthfinder. No GPS or color, just a lower priced graph. Personally, I now feel that I am a better angler because of it. Do I feel that I could have fished deep effectively without it? Maybe, but not as well. Do I feel it is the sole reason that I am catching fish deeper that 5ft? No. I think it is a tool, along with a lot of other fishing tools that help me in being effective while targeting deep fish.

One thing that I don't have is a GPS with Lakemaster or Navianics chip capabilities. I think (and know) this item would take most of the guessing out of trying to find that hump or inside turn when visiting a new lake. Do I think it would make you a better fisherman? Not necesarily, but I do believe it would make you more efficient with your time on the water. Once again, another tool in an arsenal of things that help to make you a better angler.

[sicheneder]

i agree with comments above on effectiveness and ability.

one thing that electronics does do is processing information at a faster pace. i could take a whole day or week to find out the bottom of a lake and the structure on a lake with out a electronics or to fully understand what is down there. i know that my ability to process information of electronics has cut my time to figure information on a lake extremely fast by idiling around.

by using more up to date electronics or understanding them fully like fluker said helps to process or pattern or understand activity of the fish at a faster rate. just like using a gps to find spots. and dropping a underwater camera down on what a graph shows also gives that information faster.

it might not matter on smaller lakes a person is used to but when you start having to go to unfamiliar or bigger lakes its nice to process information faster.

[MNBassGuy]

Hey guys...long time no post

Great thread! This is somehting that I feel strongly about, and I'm right in line with Deitz on this one. When I learned to fish as a kid I never used electronics. We fished shore structure and visible bottom contours that we "marked" with shorline landmarks.

It wasn't until two years ago that I first fished with GPS electronics and it changed everything for me overnight. Now I mainly find midlake points to fish deep during the summer months. I think the GPS is probably the most important piece of equipment in my boat beside rods and reels (and myself of course!).

[bassNspear]

Im with you as well, when i first started fishing that is all i would do, is go pound docks, or pitch slop, or pitch reeds.

Now, since ray and dietz gave me so much greef last year, i have been stepping back, and working outside weedlines, hitting hooks, points and humps, that i would have never done before. It makes you a better all around fisherman when it comes to big tournaments.

Everyone can go and throw under docks all day, but when you have the equipment to learn what is going on in deep water, and learn how to fish it, your going to be able to fish it alot better.

[Wayne Ek]

I'm with Ray on this one. The most important thing in becoming a better angler is time on the water. I think the under-water camera has helped me more than any one thing to understand what I'm seeing on my electronics. And I really do not want to change the direction of the post, but I really think mastering the mechanics of the sport ( skipping, pitching, rigging and such) are more important to becoming a well rounded angler than mastering electonics.

[RK]

Hiya -

I'm with Wayne and Ray.

Good electronics can be an incredibly useful too. But, at least when it comes to graphs or flashers, you still have to be able to interpret what they're showing you, and they certainly don't tell you everything.

I'm the opposite of a lot of guys here I think. I prefer fishing deep (I love deep weedlines), so interpreting electronics is very important to what I do. That having been said, I can still learn more about the weedline I'm fishing with a 1/8 oz mushroom head jig and a boot tail grub than I can using even the very good electronics I run. I think guys become so reliant on their electronics that they lose some of the other mechanical skills. But a jig or deep diving crankbait is an awfully good interpretive tool in the right hands. You can tell what kind of weeds you're fishing through just by how they feel. Same with rock - you can tell the difference between rock, gravel, or sand.

Re: Ray's point #4...I couldn't agree with him more. I'd add marked maps into that statement as well too. I think marked maps or GPS waypoints very often do one more harm than good, because you're just fishing a circle on the map. When I spent a lot of time muskie fishing on Lake of the Woods I could spot the guys fishing with a marked map from 400 yard away, because you could just tell by their boat control they didn't really know what they were fishing - just that the map said it was a good spot. Because they had a marked map, they never took the time to actually learn what made the spot good and how to fish it well.

What I think electronics CAN do is make you more efficient on spots you do know, especially out away from shore. I think this really applies to GPS units in particular. I can return to a spot a lot more easily when I'm driving to an icon vs. buzzing around out in space looking for a small hump. Some of my favorite smallmouth reefs have icons all over them marking the bigger rock piles and individual boulders, and a lot of my muskie spots have icons on them marking thicker weed clumps, inside turns, etc. But those are just visual aids to help me picture the spot. The end result of that is better boat control, and yo uhave to have good boat control in the first place in order for it to help. Can I fish the same spot effectively without the icons? Sure. But having the icons and being able to glance at them now and then just helps me remember how spots lay out. You still have to fish them right though. The need for basic, mechanical fishing skills like feel, sense of distance, good casting skills and boat control skill isn't replaced by electronics, and the only way to develop them is practice.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[MidCoast]

Quote:

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My short .02$ on the subjet...

There are 2 kinds of bass anglers out there. Those that pound visable structure(people who primarily pound shoreline and fish the banks) and those that fish off shore.

Guys that hit shoreline stuff, may not need the top of the line eletronics, sure its nice to know bottom contnet in areas, but serisously, your throwing your lure at stuff you can see...

Off shore guys, I think need the good stuff. Eletronics have come along ways in the last few years, learning how to use it, will make you a better angler. That said, there are some older angers who use older equipment and will still out fish the young guys who have "the goods"... You cant buy yourself into a better angler. You can only speed the process up. Time on the water is key!

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I totally agree with this reply... Best reply in here in my opinion.