Bass tournament questions??

[BLACKJACK]

I was reading my Outdoor News last night and one of the articles was about some guy, the head of a Minnetonka bass tournament, who was bragging about the $30,000 in prizes given out and then in the next sentence is whining about the $400 permit fee from the DNR. Heres hes using a public lake and resource to stage his tournament, I doubt the $400 even comes close to covering the overtime that the DNR will put in monitoring the tournament, and hes whining about it!!!

Am I out of line to think this guy is a jerk? Does the DNR have people at these tournaments to monitor what happens with the fish caught? As far as I'm concerned he can take his tournament to Iowa or South Dakota!!!

Let me hear your thoughts on this.

[Mark Christianson]

I agree. I imagine thats a pretty large field of boats, so pass along the cost of the permit to the entry fees.

If they have just a 50 boat tourney, thats less than $10 additional for each boat to anti up for an entry fee.

Cripes.

[Sproguy]

Ok I'll take a crack at this one. I don't think it is fair to call this gentleman a jerk, heres why.

1. He is more reacting to the idea that tournament fisherman are being isolated in the use of public waters and public boat ramps.

2. The $30,000 is not coming from his pocket it is coming from the fisherman. Most tournament directors make very little off of their efforts. You can say well bring it else where and I respect that but you most likely would feel very different if you owned a hotel or a gas station or any of the other establishments that tournament fisherman would frequent on a trip.

3. He is using public water, YES BUT so are many other people that are not being isolated. This is a very political issue and a hot one at that. There is tons of guys on both sides of the fight that are very passionate about it. This can't be decided by well take it else where. Why, well I don't want him to take it else where just like you most likely have tons of things that you don't want taken elsewhere that you enjoy. For instance, and I am only using this as a for instance, simple example. Stadium funds from tax dollars. Well I'm a Seahawks fan so if the Vikings want to move, well let them get on the next plane out of town. You might be a Vikings fan and feel very passionately that they need a new stadium. It isn't the $400 it is the isolation. It is the idea that they are going after me as a tournament fisherman and no one else.

4. I have fished most likely close to over a 100 tournaments in MN/WI in my life, never and I mean never have I seen a DNR representative at an event. They push the paper across their desk and leave it up to the local Sheriff's dept to monitor the boat traffic. Could you bring up an issue that the local Water Patrol needs extra funds well sure but not the DNR. My taxes go into the same fund as yours. Do your "pet issues" get taxed extra. Most likely yes or no but the bottom line is when you get isolated with one tax and no one else does you get upset.

5. This comes down to your point of reference. If you fished tournaments you would feel very different about the article. As you most likely do not I respect that you come from the side that would say, well why should I pay for it. Fair but there is to many things in this world that we pay for that we don't use. This is but one of them.

6. The last issue that a lot of tournament anglers have with this "tax" is no one has said where it is going to be used. If I knew it was going to boat ramps, or stocking, or something that benefits the tournament angler fine. But in this case the DNR has been very vague on where this is going.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. I respect your view point and it most likely does look like he is a jerk if you don't know the view from the other side.

[bassrap]

Well, I know Larry and he is a jerk. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the issue. He has an opinion and was able to get it published, nothing wrong with that in my book, regardless if I agree with him or not.

Sproguy - nice job!

[hanson]

Well... even though this post was titled Bass Tournament question, it really is a Tournament (in general) question. You Bass guys aren't singled out here.

And... my feeling is no big deal. You have to pay to play. If tourny entries are going to drop big time because teams have to pony up $10 more a piece, geeeeeez. A guy could fill in any number of cliches right here but its a small amount of money more to offset the permit cost for the organizers.

[Fluker]

Many of those fighting against this were NOT fighting the fact of having to pay tournament fees. They were fighting the model that the DNR designed.

Sproguy made some very good comments, so I'll not recover any of that.

First of all, the DNR stated they need to recover $108K simply from the resource the DNR puts into the permit work. There are 600 tournament permits requested each year (that is all tournaments, not just bass). There calculations was it took 3 hours to complete the process per permit, end to end. They figured in $60 an hour for expense. $180 * 600 permits = $108,000. So to me, right away they raised a red flag. $60 an hour, and 3 hours per permit?? Seems a bit high. HOWEVER, that's cool. If that is what they say they need, then so be it.

So they put a model in place for recovery, which was higher that actually what got passed. The original fees proposed were 5X to 10X higher than ANY other state that has this implemented (which is actually very few at this time). Luckily, those that fought this did make a little impact and the fees were lowered "some".

Secondly, a group was fighting to change the model. Rather than charging the fee to each tournament, model a "tournament stamp" that each angler could purchase when they get there license. Similar to a waterfowl stamp. I can't remember the exact #'s, but I think the model priced the stamp at $10 or $15 and the figures predicted this to bring in around $100K. Seems simpler to me, and I know I liked the idea much better. This would help those smaller tournament trails as well as those non entry fee tournaments like the BASS State TOC. In that case, 200 boats and no entry and no prize money, just a qualifying tournament. Now they have to come up with $ (not just $400 if there is an offsite weighin).

And lastly, the bass community does feel like they are being singled out. DNR states they are basing certain decisions on impact on the natural resources. WHen asked why the flat fee for all ice tournaments, including the moster ice fishing contest (I believe in Brainerd or Bemidji), the DNR comment was that is did not impact the natural resources like other tournaments. OK, come on now? 10,000 ice fishing contestants, assumably no catch and release, vs. a 50 boat bass tournament that is all catch and release? Just doesn't make sense.

Another example is a lake shore owner wanting to clear timber from there lot. They can request a DNR survey on the trees for suggested harvesting. The DNR can spend as much as a full day there. Cost? Free!

So your point is well taken. For a large tournament that is well sponsored, where there is no offsite weigh in, $400 is a drop in the hat and can be recovered. However there is much more that goes into this as you can see. As most of us have seen in the past, if you give an inch, they take a mile. If this new model was easily accepted, you can almost gurantee that another would be soon to follow.

Once again, I am not opposed to "paying to play", but in this day and age we have to be very careful or there will be some of those who will take advantage of that. In a perfect world, the fisherman, DNR and Lakeshore owners would all work together to do what is right. The anglers would respect the opportunities, the lakeshore owners and communities would be delighted to have the added business, and the DNR would make just decision and all could see the benefits from them. This IS happening in other states, all of this, so I know it can be a reality. However it will take all parties to agree, and that is a huge roadblock.

Thanks,

Fluker

[Superduty]

The sad thing about the new permit fees is that it will encourage more of the smaller club tournaments and leagues to fish without permits. This is happening already and will increase. I was in a permitted tourney on sauk lake saturday and a league (I assume without a permit since I have not heard of dnr giving out two permits on the same day for the same body of water) shows up with about 15 boats and has at it.

[TB Basser]

Superduty,

How'd you do in the tourney?

[Fluker]

I did not go confirm, but I "think" that tournaments with 30 or less anglers or 15 or less boats are not required to have a permit, then or now.

I think what one might see is more tournaments capping entries to 15 boats, especially those tornaments where normal attendance is only 20ish.

[Jason Durham]

Fluker,

You are correct, there is no DNR permit needed for 15 or fewer boats for an event. However, a permit to hold a public event is required by the sheriff's office. This permit has a fee whereas the DNR permit in the past has not.

[Superduty]

I'm not sure about the numbers for permits. I thought currently it is 10 boats 20 participants. Next year it will go to 15/30.

TBbasser...We ended up 5th I think. We lost one close to 6lbs and ended up weighing one under 2 lbs. Needless to say that bass was worth a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$. Would have given us plenty for the win. Congrats, I hear you're on quite a roll with 3 in a row!

[DaveC]

Jason, has hit it on the head, a sheriffs permit is needed in all the county's I have ever dealt with, whether a D.N.R. permit was needed or not to hold an event. Many county's also demand the event to be insured. There are many cost and a lot of time for the tournament trails that go by the rules.

[MNBassGuy]

I'm no expert on the fees surrounding bass tourneys, but I do know that it has been a hot button issue on the circuits I fish. During the weigh in in one circuit in particular, the guy who runs it asked for ideas on how to combat the fees. He said that between what the DNR is charging now along with the insurance that they require he has that the cost of the tourneys are running well over $1000 per tourney.

My biggest beef with all of this is that the DNR here hates tourneys plain and simple. It is the reason that the Bassmasters won't come here anymore. The last time the Bassmasters had a tourney on Minnetonka the DNR handed out tickets all day long to the fishermen. B.A.S.S. openly disucess how MN's DNR targeted them and how they would not return to any MN lake anytime soon.

As someone who fishes tournaments I see things all of the time that frustrates me. I see tournament anglers get ticketed all of the time on Tonka for wake violations, etc. I actually saw one guy get a ticket not because he drove into a no wake zone, but because his wake followed him into the zone after coming off plane. The worst part about it was that there was a 30+ foot cabin crusie kicking up a foot high wake behind it as it idled through the zone. I see this kind of thing all of the time! Bass boaters are targeted on Tonka like crazy.

All this happens and I watch bass fishermen picking trash out of the lake. I see guys getting nets out and scooping up beer cans, etc off the bottom. No one ever gives the fishermen, bass or otherwise, credit for that, we only hear about how it is impacting the natural resources. Meanwhile, some mansion owner is drudging all of the weeds off his shorline, and a huge cruiser full of drunken yahoos drive their boat past the Sheriff or DNR and get no attention. I bet at least one out of ten of those boat drievrs are plastered and could be ticketed for DUI. And isn't it funny how we seem so worried about the natural resources and upkeep of the lake when it comes to fishing, but yet we allow people to install products on their docks that rip up all of the weeds in the area, or to spray chemicals around their shoreline and kill off the natural vegitation?

What's happening is that the people who live on the lakes don't like the tournaments. They don't like hearing blast-offs at 6:00 AM. They don't like people pitching jigs under their docks and near their boats. As a result, those people make it tough for fishermen by putting political pressure on the agencies who police the tournaments.

Oh well, maybe one day MN will wake up and see the impact that sport fishing has on the economy. All you have to do is look at the studies that other states do on direct economic impact of tournaments, especially the big ones like FLW and Elite Series, to see the benefits.

[SluggoMaster]

That was very well put!

[ocf1]

Excellent.

[primetime49]

Mn bassguy,its not so bad where we live.

last couple times fishing docks and lifts people would come out and see if we were catching anything.

People from lakes association show up at weigh ins to see whats being caught,even thou they dont personally fish.

during day long waits at scales they come and visit.

We had 7 bass and 2 Walleye tournaments this year on one lake and its actually getting to be people freindly and we think we are educating non fishermen as to what we are up to.

Hope it doesnt change as i have seen it get ugly on some lakes.

As far as fees go its probaly about time to see this happen.A lot of litigation goes on in some places as far as tournaments go ,a lot of paperwork and like a couple people stated here its only coming down to about $10.00 a team[cost of a movie]It has to be worth something.

The offsite weigh ins are the only ones that are going to be charged heavily.They seem to be the ones with the financial support so hopefully they can support this fee.

[MNBassGuy]

Well, I hope the good will around your neck of the woods spreads to the metro area! That sounds great, and I'm so glad to hear that the communities and lake associations are getting involved and that the tournaments are being hospitable to those who show up!

My sincere hope is that as tournmanet fishing grows people will become more interested and that the circuits will reach out to the communities that they compete in. I have had a few weigh ins this season that have drawn some nice crowds. There's nothing better than a young child coming up to you at a weigh in and asking questions about fishing! I remember going to some weighins as a kid...I thought those tournament guys in their shirts, etc were like professional athletes! I rememebr one guy gave me a jig at a weigh in at my aunt and uncle's resort on the Horseshoe chain. It was like catching a homerun ball at a baseball game! I kept that jig on a shelf in my room. Seems silly now, but it was a big deal to me then.

What needs to be avoided is tournament anglers who feel entitled to the lake above others. The post a week or so ago about the tournament guy who drove up on another bass angler was disgraceful. I see so many guys who think they are entitled and act very arrogantly. There is just no room for it. We all have to do our best to spread goodwill and make these events fun for any specators that want to come around!

[TB Basser]

Superduty,

Well the roll is over, lol, took third on N/S Center.

Then took out my lower unit on our favorite lake to the west. Was in the 3 footers yesterday in the middle of the big bay and shut down and was in 2 foot of water? Me thinks

I may be looking for a new insurance company. lol lol

[Superduty]

TB sorry to hear about the lower unit. I was on the same body of water saturday and left with a very large scratch on my hull from a rock I hit at trolling motor speed. Water was so green that it wasn't visible. Just getting ready to sell the boat too. There was a non permitted tourney out there saturday. Less than 10 boats.

[TB Basser]

Hear anything on how they did? Getting a bigger boat

or just newer? If I remember don't you have a garage limitation? I hear I may have hit the bar you have been

cranking. lol lol