Being a good neighbor on the ice.

[Uncle Grump]

Wobbler

Lets talk about your statement "People only think about themselves.". Lets look at the other side of the arguement.

You were on public land. I appreciate your efforts in scoping out this deer, the time you spent, etc. But - and its a big BUT,
look at page 57 of this years MN hunting regs (I am assuming (yeah - I know what that means) you are a MN resident, as you refer to LOW...).

Quote: Any permanent stand on public land when not in use is considered public and not the property of the person who constructed it. Any use of threat of force against another person to gain possession of a stand is unlawful. End Quote.

What makes you think you can reserve that spot for your exclusive use? I appreciate the fact you did the effort - I'm not denying that fact on your part. But you were on public land, open to all hunters.

Was the other gentleman trying to take advantage of your work? Possibly. But you don't know that for certain. The other guy might have done his "homework" too.

Do you have a portable stand? Maybe you should consider using it. If you don't, maybe you should get one.

I'm not saying the other guy is blameless - but before any of us point the finger at the other guy, we should ALL take a good long look in the mirror first.

UG
Volunteer Firearms Safety Instructor

[Jig stick]

Makes sence to me uncle grump.If thats the law so be it!!Ya cant go agin the law.Ifin ya got any sense atall!

[WallEYES]

TEST

[Steve Foss]

Part of the problem is that so many of us go to the woods and the lake to get away from people, and we get jealous and tense when we find them there anyway. How dare they?

I bowhunt deer in a 4,500 acre municipal forest bordered by Superior, Wis., on one side and the St. Louis River on the other. There are hiking and cross-country ski trails in there.

The first time I was set up and some mountain bikers came along just before sunset, I was irritated, but realized it's a multi-use forest, and others have just as much right as I to live their lives there. After it happened a few more times, I just started waving and saying hello and watching their embarrassment.

It also doesn't necessarily spook the deer to have people on the trails, but sometimes gets them moving.

Just my two cents. And that's about what it's worth.

[This message has been edited by stfcatfish (edited 10-23-2002).]

[Gissert]

I just had a bad experience in Colorado on national forest land. Elk season started on a Saturday, and we arrived at 7:30 on Thursday morning, and began to set up camp. We had everything with us except our tent. The tens was supposed to arrive at 8:00 AM, but the guy who had it was running a half day late. Our camp tables from last year were right where we had left them, so we set up there.

Around noon, two trucks showed up, along with two horses. I could see that they were disappointed that we were there. They asked if they could camp about 60 yards behind us, and we had no objections at all. We even offered to help them. There were many nice level spots for them to camp on in the area, with good shelter from the wind. They did ask where our tent was, and we replied that it was on its way, and it arrived about 3 pm.

On Friday afternoon, I fired up my 4 wheeler to go call my wife. One of the guys from the adjacent camp hollerd at me, so I drove over to him. He got in my face that he did not want an ATV driving all over the place where they planned to hunt tomorrow ( I was on a designated motorized trail, perfectly legal). I could tell that he had been drinking a lot, so I offered to park it and walk the half mile to useable cell reception. I told him he had no worries about us using the 4 wheeler during hunting hours, and that we probably would not use it again unless someone shot an elk. He backed off, and I made my call.

While I was gone, my brother in law strolled over and asked what the problem was, and the two older gents started griping about 4 wheelers.My brother in law stated that he had had bad run ins with them too, and that would not have to worry about us abusing them and going off trail. We hunt on foot. They were still really angry, so he asked if there was something else that was bothering them. At that point, they came unglued. The told him that we had taken their campsite that they had used for 30 years (not true), and we got there early to ace them out of it. They then asked my brother in law, who has a bad leg, if he wanted to fight over it! At that point, my brother in law indicated that thought that they were very scary, told them that he feared for his well being, and departed. They simmered down a bit, and said they ment no physical harm. They were VERY drunk, and swearing at him profusely. He then offerd to call the Ranger, and he could settle the issue once and for all. They wanted NO part of that.

While we had intended to camp there, we had only seen these people there last fall. My inlaws have been hunting that area since the mid 1980's. It became obvious as the week wore on that they did not know the area as well as they had indicated, and had maybe been there two years, tops.

I did not sleep well that night. I was worried about these guys. I though about it the whole time I was hunting on Saturday, and felt uneasy about leaving our camp unoccupied. Saturday evening, they were somewhat cordial, and did not mention the previous days events. Sunday night, they invited us over for beers, we accepted, and again they did not mention the incident. Things were fine after that. Before we left, I wanted to tell them that was a rotten thing they did, but decided it was best left alone.

Such are the joys to be encounterd hunting and fishing on public land.

[Guest]

OH YEAH,! IF THAT WAS ME I WOULD HAVE BEEN HUNTING A DIFFERENT SPECIES FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE TRIP.(completely kidding)
It happens. but that brings up another interesting aspect of hunting and fishing, Drinking. yahh hoooo! I've seen some pretty bad ones.

[WallEYES]

It's all about etiquette and knowing right from wrong. I tell you there are a lot of " not to wise people" out there, graduating to the word stupid. Last year on Big swan lake I took off 5 magnum otter loads of garbage and debris in not to big of an area before unsafe ice approached. now the LOW incident...
Six miles out of a private landing in Ontario on LOW, GISSERT, GEEMAN, T-BONE, and myself went to some good crappie spots out in no mans land. After setting up we were spead out about 100 yards or so, and over a big school of crappies. In 40 feet of water our vexilars were solid red from 18-35 feet of suspended fish. After about a half a hour of catching on the average of 1-1/2 pound schmittbauers, These two yahoos out of no where come park there snow machine right behind me within 5 yards. They proceed to set up and pull this LOAD auger out and fire that thing up and scared everything within a 2 mile area away. Even the eagles behing us took off. After about 10 minutes of their drilling with that old antique international harvester auger, in the desiel model, my vexilar screen went blank...no fish.. I got out of my otter and and started to pack my stuff. After getting things in order, I went over there and before I could say anything, they asked how the fishing was. I calmly said good until you fired up that dull auger that scared everything in site and asked why out in the middle of no where did you decide to park you fat a$$es behind me. Both looked at me and shrugged there shoulders and said " BEATS ME". iasked where they were from, they said Iowa. Before I left I asked them to think about some etiquette on the ice concerning others... I went the 6 miles off the Lake to Kagaki Lake and iced some lake trout instead. I am a fairly calm guy and don't let much get to me , but I was steamed over this deal.

[the squirrel]

Hey Wobbler! It sounds like uncle buck was the one in your stand! People dont be that lazy have some respect and find your own spots!!!!!

[Wobbler]

Uncle Grump,
I totally understand your point and although you may think I was "threatening the use of force" (he had a weapon I did not) I did state that lawfully he had every right to be there "BUT" I thought ethically and "ettiquite" wise I thought he should not be hunting near my stand or in it. I do not see anything wrong with me telling him that. But that gets back to the point about ice fishing near other people and I think my case is very similar. Where do people draw the line? Technically and I have not read the rules on this so someone I am sure will tell me this but a person can drill a hole or pretty much anywhere they want. But isn't a body of water publically owned and therefore all we can do is just shrug our shoulders when someone drills a hole 10 feet from where you are catching fish because they can do whatever they want and it is on public waters? What is stopping someone from fishing in your holes? That is what this topic is about. Ethics and ettiquite. We have too many people that ruin a fishing or hunting trip for others because of the "unwritten rules" of our various outdoor activities that people don't follow. I know Uncle Grump you would not do that to someone else but there are many people out there who act that way. I am sorry I offended you Uncle Grump or anyone else but I can honestly say I try to be Ethical, use proper ettiquite, and be respectful of others when I hunt or fish.

[This message has been edited by Wobbler (edited 10-23-2002).]

[Uncle Grump]

Wobbler

Sorry - did not mean to imply you used force on your encounter in the woods. When I quoted the rule book, I was simply quoting the entire paragraph, as that paragraph exists in the book. I should have been more clear on that point.

I understand and appreciate your frustration, yet I was only trying to look at it from the other guys perspective.

Maybe the guy was a sleaze, and trying to work off your effort, but he could have done his homework too - we don't know. The guy did it "right" the first time - when he
put up his own stand. You weren't there - and it is public ground.

Sitting in your stand - well - thats debatable. You weren't there - the rule book says he was in the right. Should he have used your stand? We could argue/discuss this point until the end of time.

The problem we get in to is "what is ethics?". Ethics is a hard subject - there are entire courses in ethics taught at the college level - imagaine trying to teach it to a bunch of 11 y.o. (+/-) kids in the classroom (FAS class). One persons ethics won't neccessarily jive with those of another.

Alcohol, as mentioned in another post on this thread only makes the problem worse.

I've had my bad experiences on the lakes and in the woods. I've been accused of tresspassing when I wasn't, had a guy come bore holes 5 ft from us when my 4 y.o. son caught a crappie - w/ a gas auger no less. Try explaining that one to a 4 y.o. - why the fish stopped biting. I've had to find other spots to stand on the deer opener, cause someone got to the area I wanted to hunt first.

The biggest thing we can do is to keep our cool, and discuss things with the other person in a rational manner. No yelling - screaming etc.

You didn't offend me - and I meant no offense to you. Only another perspective.

Best of luck on your quest for the buck!

UG

[Guest]

Man alive! I had no idea this would ***** a healing wound like it has here. Now you can see we have all had this kind of thing happen to us at one time or another. Yep. I can even remember scouting a deer spot for a month before the opener and never seeing another soul. It happened up near Thief River Falls back in the late sixties. I had a nice buck so patterened I could set my watch by him. Come opening day, there was a hunter behind every friggen tree out there! Yes, it was public land. But I had never seen another soul there prior to the opener. You just never know. Me and my Dad used to hunt the Beltrami National Forest south of Warroad. You could get lost in there real easy. But yet, no matter how far we got into that mess, we always ran into other hunters......there's a million stories out there I'm sure. I hope alot of people see this and maybe start thinking about it a little. Maybe it'll eventually get better for all of us.....T

[cwmn]

There are two good Bass lakes in the east metro, they are small lakes with small parking lots. If you go in June or July on a weekend morning you have to be there before 5 AM, this is a fact of life that my wife and I have excepted, it's tuff getting up at 4 to get to the lake but the fishing is wirth(sp) it. We have also had to deal with a**holes parking behind our truck blocking us in or people parking in the spots that are for single cars not cars with boat trailers, this is stupid and inconsiderate and I have called the county sherrif more then once about this, when I was blocked in they came out and towed the guy but when it was people parking where they shouldn't they didn't do anything about it. What's my point? When we hunt and fish on public lands there are certan things we have to put up with and 99 percent of us out there practice good ethics, we just have to learn to ignore the other 1 percent or if they are doing something that in-dangers others or against the law then call the cops.
On a side note, what does everyone think is "too close" how many yards is a comfortable zone for you?

------------------
Have a good one!
CWMN

[Guest]

If I can hear you, your're too close

[pikehunter]

I have you all beat. I was fishing a deserted bay a couple January's ago and was settled in for a morning crappie bite and about 10 minutes before dawn a small plane landed near me. (I'm not making this up.)
The ice cracked like crazy and the guy got out of his plane, punched a couple holes, fished for an hour and left.
I didn't get a single bite.

[Guest]

WOW that had to bite! So much for good fishing when that happens.

------------------
FISHSTUNNER

[Steve Foss]

In a store recently, I saw a T-shirt that said: If you can read this, you're fishing too close.

Bought the T-shirt, of course.

I thought about putting that on my Fish Trap II in 6-inch letters, but the law in Minnesota says you can put your fish house 10 feet or further from mine, so all I'd likely get from the fast-lane crowd pulling up close in their machines would be a sneer, a belch and a curse. Even cross-eyed drunk guys can read 6-inch letters from 10 feet away, if they can read at all.

I could take all that and the ruined ice fishing if they'd just offer me a beer as consolation, but . . . well, you know how rarely that happens.

[Guest]

I agree with most of what I've read about general courtesy. However, I get the impression some people feel as though they "own" a spot on the ice and that because they are there, we should just shut down the rest of the lake. Give me a break! Do you think you are the only one with a map of the lake or a GPS? I go to the lake to hit my spots just like everyone else. If someone else is there, I adjust and give space. Anyone that has some familiarity with the lake you are fishing knows also knows the prime spots. Be prepared to share or go someplace more remote than the twin cities and their suburbs. I'd love to run into some of these drunken tough guys bossing people around!

[Guest]

The loud, dull, auger story reminded me of a similar scenario that occurred on Mosquito Res. two seasons ago. I was walking to the community area to run and gun abandoned, skimmed over holes on my way to a more secluded spot. I noticed two guys just standing on the edge of the area. Not fishing, just standing and watching the crowd. About 30 feet in front of them I dropped my rattle trap through the light, just forming skim ice and popped 4 or 5 slabs in real short order. They walk to within 5 feet of me, holler "crappie time", and commence to cuttin'. They had what I call a "walk around" auger. Thats an auger thats so dull you can't just bore straight through. You got to walk around the hole pushing the handle in front of you. As he cuts he is giving me that "what you goin' to do about it " look. It takes him several minutes to cut maybe 6 inches of ice. By this time the sweat is running down his face. He starts on his second hole and gives me that, "let me use your auger" look as he glances back and forth from me to my auger. His buddy takes over cuttin' duty and soon he too is puffin', pantin', and glaring at me. Finally he cuts through. At that point I reel up my trap, grab my bucket and vex and walk away. In a very sarcastic manner they ask why I'm leaving. I told them that the fish vanished when they started cutting and I needed to find another spot. They seemed to think this quite funny. About a hundred feet away I found another skimmed over hole. A little spit for a read, a quick boot heel to open the hole, down goes trap, up comes crappie. Pop, pop, pop, another 3 or 4 fish. They came running over to me, still sweating from their efforts, demanding, not asking, to use my auger. I told them that they were in deplorable physical condition and needed the exercise that their auger so adequately provided. I just had to add injury to insult by reminding them that I had several nice fish and had yet to cut a hole. I also pointed out that there were dozens of skimmed over holes in the area that only required a boot heel to open. Of course obvious logic just angers these types even more. They stomped off spittin' and cussin' about my lack of sportsmanship. Some people.
As a footnote, those rattle traps work as well under the ice as they do in open water. You'll lose fewer fish if change to trip. grips.

[Wobbler]

Uncle Grump,
I know exactly what you meant and I never was offended by anything you said. Just like what was said by numerous people on here I hope people read this and think about drilling a hole near somebody, or landing a plane next to someone or other thing that is "ethically" wrong. I just hope that if this happens to any of you this year whether you are ice fishing or hunting that you bring up the ethics and ettiquitte part of what they are doing and maybe just maybe they might change and do things right!

[This message has been edited by Wobbler (edited 10-24-2002).]

[Lip RIPPER!]

This is a very frustrating topic. I know laws are laws but some of these idiots out in the outdoors should take a class on etiquette before they are allowed to buy a license. I have experienced the same thing as Wobbler on public land where another person claims a stand or hunting area that you know is being occupied to some extent. There is no doubt that lawfully he is was in the right to sit there but as a hunter or fisherman I hope that guy doesn't teach those unethical princples to his children. I just had a guy put up a permanent stand 30 yards from a rifle stand we use that has been established for 20 years on private land. We have planted food plots, we feed deer in the winter, and cut trails where all these hunters do is "take." There is no doubt that he is on his own land but ethically I think it is a bunch of Sh--. I can't wait to see his look on his face opening morning when the Thirdy Point Buck song comes blaring from my deer stand. Hey Wobbler, it's as bad as somebody stealing walleyes out my my hole that one day. Happy hunting and fishing.

[Ole1855]

I put a hard wall house out on Mille Lacs each winter, I have a really good spot that is quite a distance from all the roads and "Cities" trying to stay away from all the activity. One Fri. evening I arrive around 5:00 only to find a guy using my hose as a wind break!!! He actually was sitting on his snowmobile that was parked in the banking of my house and he drilled his holes within 3 feet of my house. Now I know it's public water but give me a break!!! There has got to be a reasonable distance that needs to be maintained. To top it all off the guy was irate when I asked hime to move, I told him his line was going to be within 4 feet of mine after I drilled out the holes and got set up and he sat there for at least another hour before leaving. I know I could never prove it, but the following weekend when I went out my fish house had been broken into and used by someone, although nothing was stolen, they made a big mess and busted the door to the point it needed to be replaced. It made me wonder if it was the same butthead that had been there the previous weekend.

[Wobbler]

Lip Ripper,
I still can't believe that story. This is what happened to Lip Ripper one day. He was fishing outside and had 2 holes. In one hole he was jigging with his vex and the other had a bobber pole maybe 10 feet away. A man pulled up at the boat landing and walked out to him and asked if he was catching any. Lip Ripper said he caught a few and for those of you who don't know him Lip Ripper practices catch and release in our one fishing spot. The guy started jigging his bobber pole and he hooked a 15 inch walleye. The man said thanks and left. Talk about being a complete A$$. People like that should not even call themselves fisherman.

[This message has been edited by Wobbler (edited 10-24-2002).]

[Lip RIPPER!]

The best part is the next day he positioned his portable house right over the exact hole I used the night before and camped out there for at least a month.

[Wobbler]

But coming from someone who supposedly set the hook on a crappie so hard it hit the roof of his ice house as he set the hook anything is possible.

[This message has been edited by Wobbler (edited 10-24-2002).]

[metro 1]

upnoth when you say crowed on the north shore, it can get really crazy . I was up in Alaska in august and fishing on the Russian they call it combat fishing for a good reason. I'm headed to Michigan at 3:00 am Friday for some trout and walleye fishing in the Menominee river it will be just me and a friend from Duluth. Everyone in the U.P.is to busy baiting deer to go fishing ...go figure . metro