24 & 48 FAIL INSPECTION

[jbell1981]

This looks like its going to be a big deal for both of them.

Here is the story from nascar.com

SONOMA, Calif. -- Nextel Cup points leader Jeff Gordon and reigning series champion Jimmie Johnson were banned from on-track activities Friday, and their status for Sunday's event at Infineon Raceway was in jeopardy after NASCAR discovered illegal front-end modifcations in initial inspection.

The cars of neither Gordon, the defending race champion, nor Johnson will be allowed to practice or qualify Friday.

NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said both cars "failed the initial inspection ... as a result of body modifications found to be outside NASCAR tolerances. The front fender [of both cars] was modified outside of NASCAR regulations. They did not meet the C2 template inspection."

"When we presented the cars for inspection today [NASCAR] found our fenders were outside their limits in between the templates," said Doug Duchardt, Hendrick Motorsports' vice president of development. "The cars fit the templates. We thought we could work on the points between the templates and it became clear to us [in inspection] that we could not."

According to Poston, Hendrick Motorsports' No. 5 and No. 25 cars, for Kyle Busch and Casey Mears, passed inspections.

Poston added, "both teams have an opportunity to repair and resubmit their cars" for inspection up to the start of practice Saturday. "Assuming they pass inspection, they can practice [saturday] and start at the rear of the field [sunday]," he said.

Gordon, as expected, alluded to the birth Wednesday of his daughter Ella as having more of his attention than the setback, when asked his outlook on a track where "no one has ever won from the back."

"Nothing's going to ruin my day or my weekend -- I'm on cloud nine," Gordon said.

"This is devastating news ... and this definitely puts us in box. We'll just have to work our way out of it. I'm looking forward to getting out there [saturday]. I think pit strategy [on Sunday] will be very important for us."

"It's important to know this is a Car of Tomorrow penalty," Poston said of the short-term severity of the sanction. "The inspection process and NASCAR's response to Car of Tomorrow violations are going to be more severe.

"We're going to keep this car in check. It's important to know all cars in the field are starting out equal and have the ability to win the race."

Poston said both teams' crew chiefs, Steve Letarte on the No. 24 and Chad Knaus on the No. 48, would be allowed to supervise the repairs, and at this point, NASCAR had no plans to immediately confiscate the cars.

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"My understanding is the 48 has been through inspection and is waiting at the garage for my direction," Knaus said. "I think the 24 is close behind them, although it's my understanding we won't get inspection stickers until [saturday]."

Said driver Kyle Petty, who will be mic'd for TNT during Sunday's race: "You have a rule book, and we have rules. NASCAR has been adamant about the COT. For 24 months they've been adamant about the COT, "Don't mess with us on this.'

"It's going to suck with those two cars starting in the back because guys up front aren't going to get any TV time."

-- Kurt Busch"I think we've already seen it when a mistake was made by the 8 car. We saw how drastic they approached a mistake, so anytime you get into something they deem intentional it's gonna be big. With what's gone on [Friday], they deemed it to be intentional, so it's gonna be a little harsher."

In May, NASCAR levied severe penalties to the No. 8 team of Dale Earnhardt Inc. for violations found during pre-race inspection before the Darlington race.

The team was found to have violated Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing), 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used do not conform to NASCAR rules), and 20-3.1.3B (the NASCAR-approved upper and lower rear wing mounting brackets must not be modified to obtain a rear-wing angle of less than zero degrees or more than 16 degrees) of the NASCAR rule book.

Crew chief Tony Eury Jr. was fined $100,000, suspended for six weeks and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Driver Dale Earnhardt Jr. was penalized 100 driver points and car owner Teresa Earnhardt was penalized 100 points.

"If NASCAR's intentions are to create an equal playing field for everybody with the COT and you step out of line like this you need to get your hands smacked, I guess," driver Kurt Busch said. "DEI did it with their rear spoiler, and now you've got two Hendrick cars that are out of code. They really want this to be a controlled environment with the COT. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

"You lose a little bit of practice time, but it's only an hour and a half [on Friday]. It's not much. It's going to suck with those two cars [Gordon and Johnson] starting in the back because guys up front aren't going to get any TV time."

Sonoma is the first road-course race for the Car of Tomorrow. It's seven previous races were run on oval tracks.

The decision on further penalties against the Hendrick cars would be made next week, Poston said.

[lawdog]

I don't really understand this story. They say the cars fit the templates, but their bodies are still illegal. What am I not getting here???? Isn't the template what determines if its legal or not? This really doesn't make much sense...

They will get big penalties too, especially Knaus with all his history. LeTarte has no history but he'll get it too. They won't mess with these C.O.T. cars as they've shown. Funny they let Busch comment when his C.O.T. car didn't pass inspection at Dover...

[jbell1981]

The story says they were outside the limits between the templates. Hendrick vp said they thought they could work between the points where the template is placed, but they can not.

Jayski site said that the front fenders were to wide.

I assume they will get similar penalties as the #8. The 48 team might be a little worse because of thier history like you said.

[harvey lee]

All I'm waiting to see is if NASCAR follows the penalties they dished out to Jr and what they will do to two cars on the same team, high in the points.

This penalty should be a bad one but I question just how bad Hendrick's two top teams will be penalized.

[lawdog]

Ya I saw that too about not being right between templates, but here is my question, if there is not a template there for it to fit in to, how can it be illegal? I'm no genius, but if there was no way for them to check something at the track against a rule, I never worried about it being found to be illegal...

[harvey lee]

I dont know all the Nascar rules but, if only two cars were found out of spec, then I would say that they were not legal. NASCAR does not go on which hunts even agaisnt the Hendrick boys. If you dont pass tach, then you will need to be penalized.

Jr had to pay the price and now the hendrick driver should also. It's one thing for 1 team member to not pass tech, but two and ones are that high in the point and a COT race, this will hurt.

[LMITOUT]

well, well, well.....

[JohnMickish]

I wonder if this will be more or less than Jr.s fine. They say that the COT fines will be stiff but with Jr.s case and the rear wing brackets that is where the entire template skeleton anchors at so a little off there makes the whole template package run different. This is going to be interesting. Gordon will have a tough time coming from 41st, it will be fun to watch though.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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I dont know all the Nascar rules but, if only two cars were found out of spec, then I would say that they were not legal. NASCAR does not go on which hunts even agaisnt the Hendrick boys. If you dont pass tach, then you will need to be penalized.

Jr had to pay the price and now the hendrick driver should also. It's one thing for 1 team member to not pass tech, but two and ones are that high in the point and a COT race, this will hurt.

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Harvey I agree if they were caught cheating they should be penalized, no doubt about it. What I don't get is if the car fits NASCAR's templates, how can the body be illegal? That makes no sense. You've got to have a rule before it can be broken in my world!

[Uncle Bill]

Ohh, there's a big surprise !!

With ex-felon owner (hendrick) as their role model, these boys have been cheatin all along.

Wonder if jr is starting to regret signing with crooks and cheaters.

Looks like that slide, right into the tank, is getting slippery.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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Wonder if jr is starting to regret signing with crooks and cheaters.

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Jr. who is still without his crew chief in the middle of a six race suspension? I doubt it. And your boy Kenseth, he had the first suspended crew chief of the year Bill...

[harvey lee]

I have always stated this and do believe it to be fact. If you want to run up front, you need to massage those parts to the max to be fast. Thats also why you will see all the faster teams getting penalties through out the years. The slow guys just have not figured out how to do this yet.

Whether it be DEI, Hendrick or Rousch, they all run well and also have been caught with questionable cars or parts.

[Papa Grump]

Quote:

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Whether it be DEI, Hendrick or Rousch, they all run well and also have been caught with questionable cars or parts.

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Well said Tom, I see this thread getting out of control if people let their emotions get the best of them. I cheer my best for the Hendrick cars, can't stand the Fords, and DEI could fall off the .....,well ,you get the picture, but Johnson and Gordon should get at least, if not more punishment, than what DEI got earlier in the year. I can't get that wound up on them for thinking "outside the box" on this one though either.

[Macgyver55]

My main hope is that if NASCAR wants more parity among the cars, they apply that same want/need for parity towards the drivers and crews when handing out fines and docking points. I cant think of a good reason why JR should lose points for his deal and the Hendrick boys not lose the same on this one.

[harvey lee]

There is no doubt that NASCAR will penalize Hendrick. We wont know that until early next week when they hand down the penalities.

[JohnMickish]

[quote Thats also why you will see all the faster teams getting penalties through out the years.

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I would just like to say the MWR has been caught cheating as well!

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Ohh, there's a big surprise !!

With ex-felon owner (hendrick) as their role model, these boys have been cheatin all along.

Wonder if jr is starting to regret signing with crooks and cheaters.

---

Its just bill being bill almost all of his post are like this.

Well said Harvey and Papa I agree 100 percent.

[harvey lee]

After watching Nascar today, I now understand that yes, the place that they worked on the fender was a gray area as they worked on the fender inbetween the template points that touch the car.

I would have to believe that they know that when you start to change certain things on the cars that are in the gray area that maybe they should have asked NASCAR first if this was ok to do. Since they didnt ask, they must have know that it was a questionable move that they chose to make.

Chad Knaus stated that NASCAR should not penalize them anymore for this as they have been penalized enough.

Like Kyle Petty stated, when Jr's car was found ileagel, it was a purchased part and what Hendrick did was not.

What a joke. After Daytonna and another track along with this COT violation, the hammer now needs to come down and hard as it does not look like the 48 team is learning from thier past mistakes.

[LMITOUT]

According to that Guru guy on the KFAN Nascar show, he said that not all the templates fit, regardless of that zone where the controversy is.

I was thinking about the same thing Harvey, about the fact that with the possible penalties and risk they should have asked Nascar if what they were doing was acceptable. Apparently they were trying to slip one past the goalie once again. I wonder how long they've been getting away with it this year??? Remember all the talk about Hendrick's dominating the COT? Something is rotten in Denmark.

The benchmark has been set and the warnings were issued a long time ago about messing with the COT. That should be the minimum for what these guys get or otherwise Nascar just rewrote their rules on their Magnadoodle and decided to start over again, and I don't think Nascar can take too many more hits to their dwindling credibility.

[PERCHJR]

WOW what a big surprise???

PERCHJR

[HOF#13]

I would guess that NASCAR was giving us all some indication of what they thought about the situation when they parked the #24 and #48 for a day. I fully expect that NASCAR is going to slap the #48 team and Chad Knaus a little harder due to his prior problems. Jimmy may get the same penalty as Dale Jr. (fine & points) but I would expect that Knaus could be sitting out quite a bit longer than Tony Eury Jr. I think Jeff and LeTarte will get the same penalty that Dale Jr. received. Time will tell.

I do agree with Harvey Lee also...teams will always try to find some way to gain advantages in the so-called "gray" areas.

[JohnMickish]

The term "gray area" is the difference between the #8 penalty and what the #24 and #48 did. If there is a difference in penalties it will be because of it. The #8 deal was a hard rule that says it shall be just like this, what the Hendrick teams did was work between the templates. Now if NASCAR had a template to fit where they where working it would be illegal, but they don't have a template for that area.

It's going to be a tough one to call, like Limit says, NASCAR really can't take another hit to it's credibility, and at the same time should a championship be influenced by a judgement call?

[harvey lee]

I just dont agree that it is a judgement call at all. They know what then can and cant do on these COT cars and if it is in question, then that question should be asked before you do the work. The penalty if any, wont make a difference to Gordon or Johnson as it will not penalize them for the final ten, only now and they will make the chase.

So really as far as points goes, no effect. They can both loose thier crew chiefs and will still be competitive as Hendrick is so big they do have people to fill in.

Now, for Johnson, enough is enough. If NASCAR cannot stop Knaus from pushing the rules, yes NASCAR will start to loose more fans as enough is enough. How often does one use the excuse, grey area?

This would be like going fishiong at a slot lake and taking fish to big and then saying we didnt know the slot is different. It is your job to know what you are doing before you do it. Something about ignorance.

[eyepatrol]

My only question is....is this something that Knaus and Letarte did, or is it something that was done back at the shop? I would guess the buck stops with the crew chiefs.

[harvey lee]

Eric, I dont know if it really matters as the penalty will be the same regardless. It is almost a guarantee that the crew chief knows what is going on with his car and crew as that is one asspect of his job.