Motor down....need help

[setterguy]

This will be a long story, so please bear with me as I am in dire straits.

This motor is a 2001 Johnson 115 two stroke oil injected VRO.

Thursday May 18 get to Lake Vermillion and tool around a bit, motor runs great, no problems.

Friday May 19, Get out on the water and go to take off for a day of fishing...motor was only on for about 5 minutes at this time, and clunk! Motor shuts off. I try to restart with no luck. Towed to the launch, trailer boat and bring it into local outboard shop. He checks out the oil resevior and says, "its a little low, but still should be OK, maybe the oil sensor shut the boat off before it got too low. We fill the oil, replace the spark plugs and it fires right up. Runs for about 5 minutes out the of the water, revs it checks the temp on the engine 143, and 145. Says I'm good to go. Get back out on the water Start it up, runs great! Now, I'm pumped. Cruise all the way to the middle of the lake and hear a grinding noise, by the time I realize what is happening it goes clunk! and quits again. Tow it in, trailer it up and bring it home.

Luckily the boat is still under an extended warranty so I make an appointment to bring it in. I go to check the lower unit grease and it comes spraying out of there like crazy. Somehow the it was under pressure??? There is plenty of oil in there (I was wearing most of it) and it is a good dark color, not milky. I bring it in to a local shop.

May 23 - Just got a call from the repair shop, it looks like the lower unit is shot and the warranty company says that they won't pay for it. "It looks like you got water in there somehow, there was some line wrapped around your prop that could have wrecked the seal and gotten water in there."

Now I'm irate, I know I change the grease every spring, and I take good care of my things, any advice for me when I go to meet the warranty company out there tomorrow??????? Sorry for the long story. I'm just hoping someone might have some ideas.

[DTro]

If the warranty is a no go, I'm pretty sure this is something that insurance would cover.....if you run out of options.

Sorry to hear about your motor

I try to check behind prop a few times a year for line wrap, etc.

[Valv]

Hmmm, this is going to be a tough one Setterguy, I would try to ask to show the line that was wrapped, chances are they don't have it or it's from somebody else and this will tell you which kind of people you are dealing with.

I would get tough on this issue, be firm and decisive and explain if they will not cover it you will have to take this matter to court.

Did they say what is "shot" in the lower unit ?

[setterguy]

I plan on being plenty "firm" on the matter, the kicker is that the place I brought my boat isn't the place I bought it from, and the extended warranty is through an outside source. I can choose to have my motor fixed at any OMC mechanic and chose this one after several referrals from people I trusted. You would think the mechanic would be on my "side" a little, I am their customer after all. The warranty guy is supposed to go to the shop tomorrow to look first hand, I'll let you know which way to go.

[slotlimit]

Dang Setterguy, sorry to hear that about your motor. I'm a Johnson Evinrude guy to the end and I hate to hear anything bad happen to any motor especially these. I have not read your warranty papers but from the many extended warranty contracts I've read they are not worth the paper their written on. They always seem to have some little loop hole in their to keep them in the clear on the big fixes. i would suggest being nice first before getting out the fangs.

[Ufatz]

A couple of points: Slot offers excellent advice. Generally speaking these "extended warranties" are junk-a waste of money. Second, the old line around the prop story happens all the time. Monofilament line will do a number on seals in a few minutes and the result will be precisely what happened to your motor. I can't see why the shop would fabricate a story like that-its probably just what they found. It was probably wound up way deep and tight and you did not see it.

Bad things happen. I hope you are back on the water soon. And you will become a convert to reminding EVERYBODY to NOT toss old fishing line and plastic bags into the water!!!

[Valv]

I completely disagree, mono will damage a seal but your lower unit will get full of water quickly, will mix and become milky oil.

His oil was dark and clear, the fact lower unit was slightly under pressure was also a sign of good seals.

Extended warranty are a rip off from start but he already has one, no need to dig knife deeper.

The question is how can a lower unit become damaged without any external cause ?

Lack of lubrication, customer fault

Bad lubrication, customer fault

Bad seals, customer fault

Quick direction shift, customer fault

Impact with objects, customer fault

Faulty dry seals, customer fault

Seems like all the problems that could arise from a lower unit failure is customer fault, regardless of what's the reason, unless they are defective from original mfg, but after 1 year this is overcome.

The issue is how to make warranty people pay for it ?

I am starting to agree more with Dtro , you might have to involve insurance on this.

[Surface Tension]

You said you checked the lower unit oil and it was under pressure but no water was in there.

The service guys calls you and said it looks like you got water in there therefore the warranty won't cover it.

You better check the print in the warranty. You should make sure you tell the service guy that you had just checked the lower unit and there wasn't any water in there.

Lower unit oil under pressure? First off if the seals were bad there wouldn't be any pressure. Secondly why was there pressure? What type lower unit oil did you use?

Automotive Gear Oil isn't intended for lower units.

The driveshaft coming into your lower unit is turning at the same RPMs the engine is turning. That acts like an egg beater. Lower unit gear oils are special in that they won't froth up like an egg white, automotive gear oil will and when it does it expands, therefore pressure.

Now you could have used the correct oil and had pressure if the lower unit if it got hot because of bearing or bushing failure.

[marine_man]

Quote:

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I would try to ask to show the line that was wrapped

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Yep.. I'd ask to see this and proof that the oil had water in it. Don't call the dealer and tell him that you expect to see that, just show up and then ask for the evidence...

marine_man

[slotlimit]

Not trying to dig the knife deeper. Especially on a situation like this where a fellow boater, fisherman, and Johnson owner. I just wanted to let anyone else reading this to be aware of the "exended Warranty" and the scam most of them are. Again setterguy I sure hope everything works out and keep us updated.

[ChuckN]

Quote:

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I go to check the lower unit grease and it comes spraying out of there like crazy. Somehow the it was under pressure???

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One time I watched a mechanic work on a boat with a bad lower unit, and when he loosened the lower unit oil plug it exploded and shot oil all over. It had a foul smell, no water in the oil. The lower unit was toast, and it overheated if I recall. Pressure built up, but I don't know why...faulty oil, not enough oil...I don't know. Never seen a lower unit build up pressure except for that incident.

I unfortunately had a motor that had damaged gears that I was not aware of and over time all the seals went at once (on Lake Vermilion of all things, early June ) and when I got home only water was inside the lower unit.

The mechanics can pressure test the lower unit if the seals are bad, and it will be evident if there is a leak.

Good luck.

[setterguy]

Thats exactly what happened to me, it stunk and was shooting out like a rocket. I always use lower unit lube on my engine and know it was full.

Here is the latest.

Originally dealer thinks that damage was from water getting into the lower unit, says the line damaged the seal. Then the adjuster gets there and says I must have hit something (didn't) because the prop was dinged. Isn't everyone's prop dinged a little? Now the dealer says that she thinks it was from lack of oil (not the case) and the adjuster is saying I hit something that caused the damage. Since no one really knows for sure isn't it possible that the (Contact Us Please) thing just went out? I am waiting to hear from the adjuster to see where we stand. He did say that insurance should cover it if it was from an impact.

[boatfixer]

What exactly was the damage inside the gearcase? If you have impact damage you will have BROKEN pieces. If you have damage due to lack of lube, then the result will be burned or chewed up pieces with a blue color. There is also a very distinct burned smell. I have dealt with many adjusters in my time and most of them have no idea what they are looking at,they are just general adjusters, Maybe not the case here, but I would hope that the mechanic would be able to tell the difference. Ask the mechanic if he performed BOTH pressure and vacuum tests on this. You can cut the outer seal-which holds water out- and the inner seal-which holds oil in, will still be fine. That is the reason for back to back seals or double lipped seals. water out---oil in.

[setterguy]

This is the frustrating part, the mechanic is saying one thing, the adjuster is saying another. I'm too much of a novice on the subject to really question either one of them. If no one can truly say what went wrong how can the adjuster make a claim like that? What a pain in the rear this has been.

[harvey lee]

This is just me but, I would gather all the information that I could and all the facts and talk to another dealer and see what they think might be the problem or what caused it.

Sounds to me like they are all trying to weasel out of paying. If they cannot come up with a solution that is good for all parties involved, then I would as stated, gather all my facts and take them to court.

[boatfixer]

Harveys got a good idea in getting a second opinion. This is not going to be a cheap repair.

[setterguy]

Well, here is the latest....got off the phone with the warranty company they said that the mechanic agreed to the fact that it was impact damage, which she told me the complete opposite. I called her and asked why she signed a piece of paper that she disagreed with and here is her response "I didn't know what I was signing, he just told me to sign it so I did" Are you f'n kidding me? Now the warranty place is saying because she agreed they are going to deny the claim, now I have to get my insurance adjuster out there to look and see what he says...I just see a situation where the warranty place says impact, the inusurance says heat and I'm out 2k. I'm going to buy a canoe. Thanks for all your help. I will keep everyone updated to the progress. I'm not into bashing establishments on the web but this place I've been dealing with has been a complete circus.

[Valv]

Quote:

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... why she signed a piece of paper that she disagreed with and here is her response "I didn't know what I was signing, he just told me to sign it so I did"

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This is unbelievable. Bring her a piece of paper that says she'll fix it for free, and see if she signs it.

I would go directly to a lawyer, have them pay for something at least.

I am not for bashing businesses but what's the name of the warranty company so we all can stay away from it.

Talking about a nightmare....

[slotlimit]

You should call up the Trouble Shooter Tom Martino.

[Surface Tension]

I wouldn't rack up the cost by getting a lawyer involved.

You have two individuals that collectively got their story straight in a decision where they win and you loose. First you'll have to question their lack of qualifications to make that decision.

You'll have to prove them wrong by getting a second opinion by a qualified expert. You do that and give the info to your warranty company, then you give all that to your insurance company and let them fight it out.

[ChuckN]

Now it appears the only way to find the problem is to dig into it, but I would get another mechanic to do that job. Regardless, the lower unit is going to have to be torn down. The evidence is inside.

If you hit an underwater object it is covered under your boater's insurance, and I assume you have that. This should be seperate insurance for the extended motor warranty. I assume they may be pushing the problems off so they don't have to cover it.

[setterguy]

Thats exactly what I think is going on....

a.) I have a totally incompetent mechanic who was over her head in dealing with a warranty claim.

b.) I have a shady warranty company that is saying anything they can to get out of paying a claim that expires in about 3 days.

[pfluemis]

Quote:

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Thats exactly what I think is going on....

a.) I have a totally incompetent mechanic who was over her head in dealing with a warranty claim.

b.) I have a shady warranty company that is saying anything they can to get out of paying a claim that expires in about 3 days.

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a) If I am following this thread correctly, the dealership the motor is being repaired is not the dealer it was purchased from....why is that????

In the eyes of the law, it does not matter when the warranty expires, as long as the claim was started within the warranty period.

What I have done is, alway's tried to take back the product to the dealer I bought it from. If they give poor customer service, then I take said product and search for a new dealer. I alway's handle the situation the same. I tell the prospective new dealer the same thing. I tell them that I bought from a local dealer and come to find out their after the sale service is poor. I am now in the market for a new dealer to do all my future business with. Most of the time when I tell them where I was doing business, they will just acknowledge the fact the service is poor and fix me up right. From then on I do business there. Good luck.

[DTro]

any updates on this setterguy?

[slotlimit]

Happy Birthday. How's the motor?