Wolves delisted

[Cooter]

Just heard it on the radio this morning - not sure when its gonna be official but its gonna happen. I think its a good move and am suprised it happened already.

[hunt fish repeat]

Most farmers and hunters I know have delisted the wolf on thier own a long time ago. I am glad to see the U.S. government finaly catching up.

[Super Black]

This is fantastic news!!! Why do you think our ancestors got rid of them in the first place. If they want wolves to help with the population of deer, have a longer deer hunting season instead of the beasts that like to destroy our hunting heritage and our dogs! I've been reading too many articles of wolves killing dogs, not only bear dogs, but beagle's too!! I talked with a trapper friend of mine who is 93 years old and he said the best thing to do with the wolves is get rid of them like he and his buddies did when they were first starting to trap. We have no hunting season on Wolves, but the deer hunting season is a major source of revenue for the state along with local businesses. Consider these beasts as a predator and wack away!!! Can't wait for open season! SB

[RackMann85]

that just made my day

[Cooter]

I just read the write-up on the DNR HSOforum and, as predicted, there is no mention of hunting/trapping anytime soon. I doubt that will ever happen.

[cheeks]

I do not hunt with dogs and would be upset if one of my dogs was killed by wolves but...They are a natural part of the environment and contrary to popular opinion are not running around killing deer for the fun of it and then leaving them to rot. They kill the weak and the old and from my experience make for a better, healthier deer herd. We do not see as many deer, but the ones we do see are big and healthy. I live and hunt in an area where wolves are abundant and unless the group of you come up to hunt in this area I do not think there are going to be too many of them where you are.

Remember, they were here first and we came along and knocked everything out of balance, not the other way around.

Just my two cents...

Cheeks

[BRULEDRIFTER]

WOW, you guys need to GET A CLUE!!!

I give them 5 years and they'll be back on the list, due to people with your mindset, so go ahead and whack away, i think they'll be better off on the list cause then people like you will have to ponder a serious punishment vs. a slap on the wrist.

Learn a little bit about the northern ecosystem, before you start spouting redneck jibberish!

Wolves are a natural functioning predator in the ecosystem. They remove the sick and the weak, which in turn, creates stronger genetics in the deer herd(does survival of the fittest mean anything to you?). Too bad you all remain in the mindset that they are evil and kill anything and everything at will and for fun. (Grandma must have told you the litte red ridding hood story one too many times). Dogs are killed because the wolf becomes scared, and its self-defence instincts kicks in. It's too bad for the dog's, but so goes life in the wild ( I bird hunt with my lab all the time, i worry about it, but i keep him close).

Get over it! Wolves belong in the Northwoods, not the whitetailed deer. Its the logging and erratication of the wolf that drove out the Woodland Caribou, and brought the whitetail, unchecked, to spread the brainworm, which almost killed the off the moose. Its something that will never go back to normal, and its cool to have the whitetail, I love hunting them, and boy they are tasty! But nature needs natural predators. Deer populations are out of control right now. We need the wolf to help us deer hunters clean house! Being from WI, i'm sure you've heard about CWD, haven't you!!???

Overpopulation leads to sickness and DISEASES!!!

Get out of your trucks and off your stand and GO FIND the deer if your struggling to harvest one. Deer are EVERYWHERE. I hunt north of TwoHarbors, saw multiple wolf tracks and a few wolves too, well, my freezers full of vennie!

[outdoor ran]

I know guys that cant stand wolves. Just stop in the Gordon bait shop and you'll see all the wolf hate signs. To be honest I don't have a problem with them. Then again I'am the only outdoorsman who has never seen a wolf. I have a 5 year old son that wants to see one so bad.

[Jim Hudson]

This is my take on wolves right now.. I feel that the population is at a point that they can be taken off the endangered status here in WI... And with the problem wolves, I think they should be disposed of and not relocated. Again, just my opinion.

Living in one of the areas that have harbored wolves, even before the re-insurgance of the population. We never had problems with wolves while out hunting with dogs. The problems started, when wolves were being relocated because of the problems they were stirring in other areas. My opinion, is that these wolves are staking out their now new territory and are much more prone to killing other dog species that enter their territory. Where the "resident" wolves have lived with this and find no reason to do as such, where at times maybe if a pack of something come through, they have to defend their territory. But this seems much less common then with wolves in areas that I know have been put there by human means.

I actually love wolves, have sought them out to see them, and see them on occasion. I have no hard or ill feelings against them, even though I have been to a dog kill from a wolf and some of my friends and relatives have suffered dog attacks. These wolves are doing what is natural to them and are helping in returning our ecosystem back to what it should be. Deer are more of a problem then wolves IMHO.. They have degraded our forests because of over population and why is that, because we as "stewards" thought it was okay.. Why? Because we like to hunt deer.. Well, again, we were wrong and now the rest of our forest habitat and agricultural lands are suffering from the overabundance of deer.

The wolves are here to stay... And I seriously hope, those that have the SSS syndrome (shoot, shovel, and shut-up approach) get what they deserve for doing un-justice on a great and magnificent animal.

People of the north have been living with them for years, its time for others in the state to go this direction as well....

But on the other hand, I will be the first in line for a tag to trap one of these animals as well.

[matthothand]

Isn't the main reason that the elk herd in WI can't get it's numbers up because of the wolf? I may be wrong but I thought I remembered reading that in a newspaper article. Without being a biologist or well-informed on the balance of that ecosystem I have lately wondered why the wolf numbers couldn't be eliminated and the elk and moose be brought back. Those animals bring in much revenue statewide by hunters purchasing tags, gear, gas, etc. but what does the wolf do for us? It kills and eats deer much like us. It doesn't bring in revenue and it's limited the area to deer... not elk or moose or other species that could thrive in the absence of wolves. As far as the wolves taking only the sick and diseased deer from the herd they'll take what's available. healthy or sick. I have yet to meet a hunter that won't put down a sickly looking deer to end it's misery.I'm not sure how often dogs get attacked by these critters but in a land of little/no wolves you could take your dog for a walk and maybe see a big bull elk or a cow moose and her calf where you once only had a few deer.

[Jim Hudson]

Lots of things have limited the Elk herd... Like vehicle collisions... Because of people feeding these animals near the highway. Yes, wolves kill some.. And so do bears that seek out the fawns in the spring...

So, we should eliminate driving.. kill the bears... and kill the wolves too... Oh, and a couple have drowned in some flowages.. So we should dry up these waters... just so we can increase revenue and hunt an animal..

But truthfully, the Elk will survive, even with the wolves.. Animals as such adapt... There is a thing called natural selection in the world of nature... The ones that survive are smarter and less prone to depredatation by wolves. They also produce offspring and teach these offspring the way of life they have learned to live... So in turn, with due time, the Elk population will grow. Will it be slower.. Yes... But all things aside, it is the natural world working the way it should.. Minus the vehicle collisions and people feeding these animals... Its the same way those crafty whitetails survice to see another year from your ever ending battle of trying to outsmart them. Some live.. Some die.. But the ones that live, they become smarter and wittier to your advances into their domain...

[Wicked_1]

What do you think they'll go after once they get all the "sickly and weak" animals knocked off? My guess is they are going to move onto something easier to catch like a pet or your kid playing in the back yard. But I guess it's just "natural". Good luck with that!

[Wade Joseph]

Everything has a balance. They belong in the woods. Then again, if they are caught killing cattle, they should be shot.

[Northlander]

There is always sick, old or injured animals in the woods for them to eat. Always will be. I have no problem with them being unprotected now. The numbers are high enough in my opinion.

I also agree that if they are killing livestock, pets and hopefully not humans they should be killed not any of this relocating talk.

[sachem longrifle]

First, wolves don't kill dogs because they are scared and just want to defend themselves. Wolves are very territorial and will not tolerate competition for food or another dog like predator in their territory. Also, wolves will pack and kill healthy deer and are well equipped to do such. Just sick deer are easier to catch. The energy in verses enrgy out thing. However, there are way too many deer. They are well equipped to not only outsmart a 2 legged predator but a 4 legged one , also. I read an article once that the high number of deer are eating alot of the young understory and brush that ruffed grouse need for cover. Timber wolves and ruffed grouse are native to N Wisc/Mn, deer moved in after the moose and elk were gone due to a large number of human settlements that were not good for the moose and elk but great for the deer, esp with the predators wiped out. I see this played out in my area: when the wolves move in you see no deer for a while so you assume the wolves got them. Oh, about a week or two after they move out you see deer everywhere. I am for a wolf season but a very limited one as needed but I wouldn't want to see them wiped out.

[bwtrout]

Good reads can be found googling "Isle Royal ecosystem"

[nolte]

Jim

How many elk calves survived this year in Clam Lake? I heard from a source close that it was 0. I don't see how that is survival of the fittest.

People who think that wolves only clean out the old and sick need to quit listening to all that Green Peace mumbo jumbo. They take down whatever is readily available, until it's not available and then move on. They are not going to travel to look for sick/injured animals if other animals they can catch are at hand.

Most of the wolves I've seen have not seemed scared in the slightest, they don't defend because they are afraid. They attack because they are territorial, big difference.

I'm glad that they have been delisted, so that the DNR can trim back the population since we are already over the management objectives. It is also nice that they can eliminate problems wolves if neccesary, hopefully after the month long transfer they still can.

[newoodhntr]

A guy I work with had 5 calves killed and were not eaten. Just left and the Dept of Ag. said pups were being trained to hunt. He was reinbursed and they tried to trap them but had no luck. Newoodhntr

[Jim Hudson]

Notle

I agree with you in the fact that we are above our management goals in the wolf arena.. And the de-listing is needed to start culling off the wolf population. But still, we can all live together and still have viable populations of Elk, Deer, Bear, Grouse, Cattle, Dogs, etc etc..

Here is a link for real information involving the Elk re-introduction...

Elk Updates

For the 2006 calving season, see 2006 Second Quarter...

[nolte]

Jim

I agree with you. Having wolves doesn't bother me, it's the total hands off approach on management that bothers me. We'll see if that changes. It also bothers me that you don't have the ability (legally) to defend your dogs in case of an attack. The recommended procedure from the DNR in an attack is yell/make noise to scare them.

I chatted with an ADC trapper who told us that the DNR estimate of roughly 500 wolves is very conservative. From my travels in Northern WI I agree with him. I just don't understand why they are such an off-limits golden child in the eyes of the DNR, since they don't bring in any revenue. I think we should have a sound diverse ecosystem, but a litle more emphasis should be put on animals that can reciprocate a type of value to WI citizens in some way. I don't currently see a lot of value with wolves, but lots of headaches.

Here was an intersting quote from the second quarter in the ELk Managment.

"Analyzing our wolf predation investigations its apparent that in addition to the occasional solitary bull being killed more “group” animals are being taken. Most are young animals, not quite a year old, and most of these are killed next to river-ways. One “group” cow was killed in March, however, she had a healed broken hind leg (likely due to a vehicle collision) that made her vulnerable. If this pattern progresses to sub-adult and adult cows, the Clam Lake herd will be in serious trouble."

I'm not sure if they are saying the wolf depredation or vehicle collisions are the dangerous pattern.

[Cooter]

Quite sure they are referring to the increase in adult elk killed by wolves.

I've long questioned the pop estimates - there is NO way 500 wolves produce as many sightings/tracks as are present in the state.

[Jim Hudson]

Nolte

I am glad that you brought up the management part... That is the problem... The wolves are not... IMHO, people put too much blame onto the animal itself and not the right party... The wolf ecologists...

Adrian Wydeven, Mr. Wolf (what I call him), is so pro-wolf that it will be hard to end the problem that we have right now... I totally agree on the harvest part.. It should start ASAP. The population in my estimate can handle it.. Do it on a lottery system, as we do for bear or bobcat.

I remember, 10 years ago.. Just getting out of highschool, the talks of the "500" number of wolves being the cap.. Even then, the population was probably around 250 animals if not more... If I would have to estimate, I would say we are looking at least 750 or 1000 animals by now.. Just by the law of averages in population rise...

Thats where my beef is.. Not the wolf itself... Just the issue of the managers down playing the numbers.. And I am glad you brought that up... So in my eyes, it "those" guys that are the problem.. Not the wolves...

[Cooter]

Great post Jim.

A little info from the The Wisconsin Trapper publication:

According to Adrian Wydeven, wolf mortality is 25% for adults and UP TO 75% for pups. The count is a minimum as is done late winter when the pop is lowest. They define a pack as 2 or more wolves together showing breeding activity. They claim 110 packs in WI, each pack will average 5.2 pups/year. Doing a little math and I think the delisting is certaily justified, especially with a goal of 350.

Back to Jim's point on management - I'm all for wolves but the current system is horribly expensive for the state. Take into account the money spent for research, tracking, biologists, etc then add in the livestock and hound reimbursements plus the costs they are placing on the elk efforts. With desisting and new management, we could back off spending on monitoring, reduce costs for losses, elk program spending, and in addition raise revenue through a limited hunting and/or trapping season. They are a valuable part of Wisconsin's environment, however I think the expenditures in the past have outweighed the assets. At worst case scenario, something horrible happens and we suddenly only have 50 wolves left in WI. I'd be willing to bet Alaska or a number of Canadian provinces would gladly donate all the wolves we asked for.

As often is the case, a sensitive, highly debated issue. The bottom line is there indeed is a situation possible that would satisfy 'most' interests, which in reality is as good as it gets most times, hopefully the state will achieve that.

[nolte]

Jim I totally agree with you.

A friend of ours who is a trapper went to a informational wolf seminar out west last winter. It was given by biologists and such from Alaska, who have had to deal with wolves for a long time. The mortality stats they gave for wolves and pups was similiar for Alaska, but that it can be very misleading. In areas with an ample food supply, pup mortality can shrink way down to 10%. Also that old addage about how only the Alpha Male and Female breed, is also a farce.

Without any type of human intervention game/predator populations would peak and crash based on vast multitude of factors (good, weather, disease, etc). The problem with that is we don't want game populations to bottom out, but instead keep a stable healthy population that doesn't out grow it's suitable habitat. There is no limiting factor right now for wolves and the only thing that can slow them down is prey species populations. I've driven a lot of northern WI roads in the winter in the last 5 winters looking for tracks and there has been a major decrease in deer tracks in some areas. In fact the only real common areas that you see deer tracks, are in the areas that people feed them. Many times I've check roads in the big woods and the number of fisher, fox, cat, wolf, coyotes have far outnumber deer tracks. You also don't see many yote and wolf tracks in the same areas.

If you are going to attempt to manage game animals, it's got to be a whole system effort. Otherwise it will not be effective.

[Super Black]

I would like to take the time to explain myself on the first post I made. I didn't make it out that all wolves should be "wacked." Just manage the population better and we could make a lot of people change there minds on wolves in Wisconsin. As to this date I've only seen three wolves in the wild and all were within 1 mile from my house. I have no problem getting venison in the freezer because we have such a high population of deer. Just this muzzeloader season I shot 6 does so plenty of meat for the family. My major concern is tho my wife and kids. It will be a matter of time before someone gets seriously wounded or killed. And I don't want it to be either of my daughters or my wife. Maybe I'm speculating a little too much, but would rather see a few wolves harvested then to see someone get seriously hurt! I just keep reading about the bear dog's and they're handler's runing into the wolves over and over again. WE really need to help incourage a season on wolves so we can protect not only our families, but also our heritage. SB

Oh, on a lighter note, wife and I had our second child, she was a beautiful 5lbs 15 oz's. And she already knows how to call coyote's!!!!!