Sunday Newspaper

[Pikeslayer]

Hey Bass n Spear It sounds to me like alot of peaple on this site just dont know how to cook! When I have a fish fry them thirty in. pike taste just just as good as twenty four in.pike!

[bassNspear]

they are good. But i don understand where there coming from as well.

[10,000 Casts]

This site should have a seperate spearing forum so that you guys can talk about it with out having others chime in.

If there are 2 things that Muskie fisherman hate, it's Spearers and Bass Fisherman

no hard feelings for the sport here, I just tryed to answer the question, why has spearing decreased?

John

[bassNspear]

I would love a Spearing Forum

[Central Bassman]

LOL....

[Cowgirladdict]

i have a question for you Bass n Spear,

when you go Bass fishing how many bass do you keep in a day or a week for that matter?

now be honest, i have more to come after your answer

[bassNspear]

It all depends on how many people are going to be at my house for supper that night.

Who eats bass? Not this Cat Fish Hunter

[Cowgirladdict]

a lot of people eat bass, there pretty tasty when cooked right, and they dont have those big ugly bones in them, very easy to catch also, but what i am getting at is because you bass fishermen practice catch and release with bass MN is starting to get a nice population of really nice bass, and some super bass lakes to fish on, last year muskie fishing i caught several pushing the 6 lb mark..

we can have 40 inch plus pike in MN, thats just up to you and the others that spear

[bassNspear]

I get your point buddy.

[glenn57]

bassnspear, looks to me like your post about these newspaper articles wrinkled a few feathers. you will never please everyone, especially people that dont like spearers. as far as eating bigger pike i have and they taste pretty good. i take the y-bones out pickle them and fry the rest.having a smoked pike is really tasty also. another optoin for pike is poor mans lobster. happy harpooning.

[Dan L]

Good post Pikeking. I could not agree more. I think for the most part spear fisherman do take alot of big pike. I think there is alot of talk about letting the big ones go but it's mostly talk. Also I realize from reading these post there are some spear fisherman that do use selective harvest. As I stated in another topic it is frustrating to see all this talk of letting the big ones go then when it comes to slot limits on pike the Darkhouse Assosiation fights everyone of these attempts to produce a healthier pike population. Every time a regulation comes up for review they want it ended. It's unfortunate that the Darkhouse Assosiation fights the attepts to grow bigger pike because they could be a big part in the solution to bring back big pike since they are a strong organization. I tink this is a major reason for the dislike some anglers have for spearing. By the way I like the 26" to 40" slot also.

[bassNspear]

It might be going down in popularity within the next few years, but the fact of the matter is, the people that have loved it for over years and years, are still going to do it. And when it does go down, the pike will only get bigger for you muskie fisherman.

[Muskiefool]

The entire point of the article was meant to start the assault on the 27 designated Muskie Lakes and their dreams of decimating every trophy pike in MN, then complaining about restrictions to mend their destruction, Trophy Pike outnumber trophy Muskie 3-1 in these lakes, I really wonder how many Trophy Pike lakes there are that are not on the designated Muskie lake list, and don't say Red because we all know you can't see 2 feet into the water or they would be looking at a hammer handle haven there too.

[bassNspear]

Quote:

---

I think for the most part spear fisherman do take alot of big pike. I think there is alot of talk about letting the big ones go but it's mostly talk. Also I realize from reading these post there are some spear fisherman that do use selective harvest. As I stated in another topic it is frustrating to see all this talk of letting the big ones go then when it comes to slot limits on pike the Darkhouse Assosiation fights everyone of these attempts to produce a healthier pike population. Every time a regulation comes up for review they want it ended. It's unfortunate that the Darkhouse Assosiation fights the attepts to grow bigger pike because they could be a big part in the solution to bring back big pike since they are a strong organization. I tink this is a major reason for the dislike some anglers have for spearing. By the way I like the 26" to 40" slot also.

---

what do you mean by the part that you said about the Minnesota Darkhouse

[spearman]

It makes me mad that all of us spears get a bad rap for doing something we all love to do. I have been spearing since i was about 10 and I will admit Ihave seen big fish but the biggest fish I have ever speared was 11 lbs when I was 13 yrs old I get more of a thrill watching the big pike chase the decoys around than killing them. I like to think that I'm letting them go so someday my kids will be able to do this awesome sport that I love to do.

[bassNspear]

thats what its all about right there.

[RK]

Hiya -

OK guys - let's cool the rhetoric down on this thread. I really don't want to have to dust it.

I've said it before several times. Spearing and pike management is one of the most complicated issues in fisheries management in the state.

Several posts have questioned what effect harvesting large pike (by ANY method - let's be clear about that up front. Personal opinion, but I don't like hook and line harvest of big pike any more than I like seeing them speared, and the effect on the resource is the same - dead is dead) has on a fishery. I'll try and give a brief explanation.

Pike are in a lot of respects two fish in one. A mature, larger pike, over 25", is a far different fish than a 20-incher. In lakes with healthy pike populations (good distribution of fish throughout the size ranges), larger pike are an important population control on small pike. Some of that has to do with competition for forage, some of it with predation (cannibalism is quite common), and some of it with their bioenergetics and maturity rates. In lakes with stunted pike, fish mature rapidly and can start spawning in only a couple years.

The use of special and experimental regulations on pike in Minnesota, plus research from other states, and other countries, has shown pretty clearly that a key factor in developing quality pike populations in lakes with the capacity to sustain them (forage, cool water refugia, etc.) is protecting mid-size pike in the 24-30 inch range as they make the jump to larger forage. From there, the connection with angler behavior isn't rocket science. With no medium size pike, there are no big pike. With no big pike, the population control they exert on small pike doesn't happen.

The problem is anglers are extremely size-selective with pike. Anglers just don't keep 18-20 inchers. Given the option, they keep the 24-inch plus pike. Precisely the ones that are so vital to developing a better fishery in many lakes. It's a catch-22. I said earlier pike are two fish on one, and that's true with how anglers view them as well. In smaller sizes, they're a consumable fish. As mature large adults, they're a trophy.

I know many of the spearers on this board don't spear many larger pike. Many of the Darkhouse Assoc members I talk to tell me the same thing. I have no reason to doubt that's true. But not everyone who spears is as conscientious. If intensely speared, spearing CAN have a detrimental effect on a pike fishery. In some cases, spearing has a far higher effect on the fishery than angling for pike. Take one example: a creel survey from a lake in Northern MN showed that spearing was 2% of the angling effort directed at pike. That 2% accounted for 25% of the pike harvest in terms of the number of fish taken. In terms of WEIGHT of fish taken, spearing accounted for a full 52% of the pike harvest recorded during the survey. 2% of the effort, 52% of the harvest. Individual practices may vary, and many spearers certainly practice what they preach in terms of watching the big ones swim by, but you DO have to consider the effect of the ACTIVITY AS A WHOLE in terms of its potential effects on a fishery. Not doing so is simply sticking your head in the sand.

Like I've said in several other posts, I'm really torn when it comes to spearing. I grew up sitting in a spear house with my grandfather, with a rope around my ankle in case I took a header down the hole (only happened once...). I get the thrill, and the history. It's my history as well. But, if practiced in a way that affects the fishery in a negative way, I'm less charitable about it. When it stands in the way of better pike management (opposition to special regs, etc.,) then I really start to question it. It really becomes a complicated deal.

Keep discussing, but keep it civil, or the thread goes poof...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Dan L]

Hi Bass N Spear. What I mean is that in every meeting I have attended on special regs there has been the Minnesota Darkhouse Assosiation there to oppose the regulations. It seems like when a writer in the outdoors papers write an article about a meeting on pike regs I read that the MDHA is there to oppose the regs. When I call the area DNR area supervisors they mention the they have a very hard time getting and keeping pike regs in place and it seems like they mention the MDHA is opposed and they are very well organized. Bass N Spear correct me if I am wrong. If it is true that is the problem I have with the MDHA. As far as the sport of spearing I don't have a problem with it. It just seems to me that they are an obstacle to getting big pike. Again let me know if I am misinfromed.

I love to pike fish but in most Minnesota waters it is a waste of time for me. There is too many small pike and very few big pike. I have had the oppurtunity to fish some slot lakes and they have been impressive. If what I am hearing is true it sure would be nice to see the MDHA be more of an allie when it comes to promoting trophy pike waters.

[Central Bassman]

Hey RK, Make a spearing page so we can have it to are selfs and not with the muskies guys!!!

[Pikeslayer]

I would sure like that idea.That way a person wont have to worry about getting heckled when you have a question about spearing!

[Central Bassman]

yupper!!!

[RK]

Hiya -

Adding a new forum is above my pay grade...you'd have to go to Rick.

But personally, I'd be against it.

Why? Because I think part of the problem spearers have had, and part of the conflict between them and muskie anglers in general, is because they two groups DON'T interact. Isolating each group would allow us to continue pretending there's no controversy, no disagreement between differing interests.

The reality is both camps have a lot more in common than in conflict, and the only way the conflicts we DO have are going to be resolved is by discussing them and hammering things out. That isn't always a pretty process.

Frankly I think the Strib article that featured Schnitker did spearing a disservice in terms of getting along with muskie anglers. If you want tp pick a fight with muskie guys, tell them you want to spear on the ban lakes. The argument that more muskies die from delayed mortality than would be speared is an utterly empty case. One is the unintended but inevitable consequence of catching fish. The other is an illegal act under ANY circumstances. Saying that muskies never get speared is equally false. If you doubt that, I have some photos to show you. One fisheries manager told me that on one northern MN muskie lake where spearing is allowed, 14% of the muskies they trap-netted showed spear wounds. Those are the ones that lived... It gets back to my point earlier...many spearers may be utterly ethical, and I don't doubt that in the least. But you can't pretend the unethical behavior doesn't happen, and that it shouldn't be acknowledged and accounted for.

I really think that those issues need to be discussed between the interested parties. Sending each to their own corners doesn't help anyone in the long run.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[bassNspear]

I understand where your coming from. The ASSC is loking to always help the pike population in any way they can. Dont get me wrong on that, there not there to beat up on the pike population.

As far as the big pike, they want the pike population to get better and better each year. They do love the monster pike, and the reason that you might think that they are always taking the bigg pike out of the waters, is becuase there always talking about the biggest one they have ever speared.

I was talking to a guy that is a member like myself, and we were talking about how we try and not take a big one everytime out. Reason for this is by taking the smaller pike out of the lake, its going to help the population of the lake with taken smaller pike out. Like RK said, if your a spear fisherman, and always taking the big pike out of the lake, the smaller population si going to take over the lake and get way out of control.

I understand where your coming Dan.

[Hooliganz]

...man lots of reading to get here. To reply to the first post about why it is declining. I agree with most, people are lazy, think too much work for a pike when they can just put out a tip up and get one. I would have to argue that spearing is alot cheaper than angling. You dont need a Vexilar, just a cheap lead weight will do. Also Walleye and panfish is just what more people like to fish for. Just wanted to say that I spear and grew up around it and will continue to do so and bring kids along. I am a member now to MDHA. I have not been able to get out this year at all. Kids have been keeping me busy

[bassNspear]

man u need to get out. your missing out