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bassNspear

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My understanding is that the major reason the statewide 26"-40" slot failed was becasue the majority of people did not want it, based on the DNR angler surveys.

The best solution may be the lake by lake restrictions that seem to be taking hold on a number of waters that are either out of balance or have the potential of being overharvsted.


I'm not for a statewide specific slot either. Lake specific slots are a different story. I really believe that the vast majority of our lakes would benefit. But what's best for Lake X isn't necessarily going to be what's best for Lake Y. We already have a good start with addressing specific lake needs in the state with different regulations. We need to continue to expand on this and analyze effectiveness and need for changes as time goes by.

What puzzles me is the inability of people to look at the big picture. And I'm not picking on spearers, or anyone that has posted on this thread. I'm speaking in general, with people that have any specific interests. A common mentality is "I want X, but I'm not willing to do Y, which would help me get X."

The big picture. Sometimes you have to compromise. You can't always have it both ways. So whether it's the size structure of northern pike or anything else, you have to look at the big picture. Decide what's most important and consider what effects your decisions, regulations, etc. are going to have on the big picture. When it comes to slots on northern pike, I really believe that opposing them has a negative trickle down effect that very few (if any) people want.

Aaron

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I'll just disregard that because I really don't care, if you spent the time to read this whole post, you would notice that ever anti spearing person has implied that spearing is causing all the problems.

And I also really don't care if I offended you. Sorry if my smart @ss comments have ruined your day, but hearing everyone bash spearing ruined mine.

AWH, I agree, MDHA shouldn't be upholding things as all those hammer handles do put entire lakes out of balance, I was only trying to look at the other side of the issue from there point of veiw. Following a slot when spearing you would need to be sure that fish is alot bigger or alot smaller, furthering the size of the slot for spearers.

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The fact of the matter people is that everyone is going to have a different look at everything when it comes o this topic. We can sit here and go on for days about this topic, and it will never be the same when your looking at all the different anglers that are out there. Fisherman are always going to look at it different the spearing fisherman.

Fact of the matter is, there is never going to be a point in time where we are all going to be looking at it the same way.

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Actually, I think we are all much more on the same page than we realize. For the most part, we want the same thing. We want the fisheries to be healthy and well balanced. It's the "how do we get there" and "what are we willing to sacrafice" that gets in the way, unfortunately. This is where I wish we would let the DNR do their job and not try to interfere. Offering our opinions and feedback to the DNR is great. And they should listen to that feedback and take it into consideration. But they shouldn't let it get in the way of doing their job and doing what's best for our fisheries. That's what we pay them for. If we aren't going to let them do that we may as well eliminate their positions and put everything to a vote. Whatever shows to be the popular opinion is what goes. This is a scary, scary thought....

Aaron

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I'm not saying that spearing should be eliminated. What I am saying is that in order to get where almost everyone wants to get to (quality northern pike fisheries), we need to change what we're currently doing. This includes both spearing AND angling practices. This is the point.

Aaron

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AWH, I agree with you completely. As for your earlier post about people not willing to look at the big picture, it's called "delayed gratification". If I let this fish go/swim through now it will be bigger when I catch/throw a spear at it next year. As much as I love America, we Americans tend not to be very good at delayed gratification in any aspect of our lives.

It is sad that this thread has become much like politics in general these days. Both "sides" agree on 90% of this issue: everyone wants the opportunity go out and get (read catch or spear) large pike with some frequency and most would like that opportunity to stick around for their children. However, everyone seems to focus on the 10% that divides them. It seems that if a musky fisherman says "slots" the spearer says "slots will ruin my sport" and if a spearer says "I watched ten fish swim by today without even throwing the spear" the musky fisherman says "but the one time you threw the spear at the 11th fish you killed it".

Both sides need to focus on what will help them each get what they want in a fair manner. For instance, maybe instead of imposing a single slot limit on lake "X" there could be two, 26-40 for anglers (who have the benefit of pulling out the tape and checking acurately before deciding to harvest) and a second of 28-38 for spearers (who are forced by the nature of the sport to make an educated guess at the fish's length based upon past experience, water depth, etc.). Now obviosly that result may not be perfect, but it seems relatively fair and a lot better for a lake that would benefit from a slot than no slot limit at all.

And by the way I can already see the responses of it being impossible to enforce, but I would argue that it would be no more difficult than any current slot. If the fish has a spear hole in it the "spearer" slot applies; if it has a hook mark in the mouth the "angler" slot applies. Make no mistake, some people would try to take advantage of this, i.e. spear a pike after catching it on a hook, but those same people are breaking the law now by overharvesting, etc.

by the way, off topic, AWH, thanks for the quick service. I was very impressed by the prices and quick turn around time on my recent order.

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I spear during the winter whenever I am on the lake. This year the only angling that I did was before spear season opened and I am sure I will do some after the spearing season ends. Personally, I would rather see a half dozen 20-25 inch fish because I will throw at a couple of those and actually have something to eat versus seeing two pike over 28 which I will not throw at anyway but scare away all my little friends and harrass my sucker minnow.

The point is, that everybody has their own opinion. It is silly to assume that just because you see something in some way that everybody else should as well.

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Buzzin,

You're welcome. Glad you found the site! Nice post too. I don't think there's any legitimate reason why a spearer (or angler) should think slots are a bad thing. They should really effect very little in how we go about enjoying our sport and will only enhance future opportunities. If there's obstacles to get around with the slots, I'm sure those can be overcome. Whether it's similar to what you suggested or by other means.

Aaron

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I spear during the winter whenever I am on the lake. This year the only angling that I did was before spear season opened and I am sure I will do some after the spearing season ends. Personally, I would rather see a half dozen 20-25 inch fish because I will throw at a couple of those and actually have something to eat versus seeing two pike over 28 which I will not throw at anyway but scare away all my little friends and harrass my sucker minnow.

The point is, that everybody has their own opinion. It is silly to assume that just because you see something in some way that everybody else should as well.


Was I assuming too much when I said that we all want the same thing, healthy and well balanced fisheries? I hope not.

If you're referring to my comment where I said, "What I am saying is that in order to get where almost everyone wants to get to (quality northern pike fisheries), we need to change what we're currently doing."....That's why I threw in the word "almost" because I know not everyone cares about quality northern pike fisheries. However, northern pike have the single biggest impact on our lakes in terms of healthy and well balanced fisheries. Which brings me back to my belief that we all want the same thing. It gets back to looking at the big picture and determining "how we get there".

I absolutely respect your feelings of wanting to see the smaller fish when you're out spearing. In my opinion, this is what spearing should be about...taking the smaller fish for the table and letting the bigger ones swim. Luckily for people that feel as you do, there will always be plenty of lakes with populations of smaller fish. There's no way that we will ever be able to turn all of our lakes into lakes that can sustain larger populations of big northern pike. Some lakes simply aren't capable of this.

Aaron

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Several years ago I sent an e-mail to Ron Payer at the DNR discussing what was then a proposal to put some slot limits on northerns on a couple of lakes in NE Minnesota. I spear one of those lakes, and my Dad spears on a couple of others.

I agreed with the concept of the slot limit, and suggested to Mr. Payer that perhaps spear fishermen would be more receptive to slots if some sort of system could be implemented which would excuse an honest mistake. What I suggested was an "oops!" tag, or maybe even two, be given out to those spear fishermen who operate on slot lakes. If a guy guesses wrong and hits a protected fish, he would have to fill out the tag - date, time, and size, and turn the tag in to the DNR. An honest mistake wouldn't make a guy an outlaw.

The reply I got from Mr. Payer literally boggled my mind. He reported that such a system had been considered, but they decided not to do it. Why? Because they felt that spear fishermen would TRY to fill their tags, and use the tags as an excuse to intentionally kill protected fish.

Nice attitude! I felt real good about contacting the DNR, and even better about how those in power viewed the low-lifes (like myself) who are out on the lake.

I have gotten pretty good at judging sizes, and basically won't throw at anything I consider to be even close to the slot. One thing I did was to take an aluminum pipe, put marks on it for the protected fish, and hung it so it was just flush with the bottom of the ice. It was a nice visual reference while getting used to the slot. However, given the number of tickets issued to guys who actually have their hands on the fish and a ruler to work with (think Red Lake), you can see the problem with guessing on a slimer sitting 5 or even 8 feet down the hole!!

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I was also thinking about a "tag system" for mis-judged fish. I think it's a great idea! and I'm glad to hear that it is part of the discussion.

Even if the idea was abused (and I'm not suggesting it should be - but it's likely would be), a guy would still be limited to that number of fish within the slot per year (like 1-3) - rather than one fish over 30" per day.

I think it would be a great step towards getting the spears to start judging size and targeting smaller fish.

Also, I'm glad to see the folks who are critcal of the spear guys point out that they don't really have a problem with spearing itself - just the harvest of fish that have turned the corner from being snakes, and are on thier way to being 40 inchers (regardless of how they are taken).

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You would be issued a small number of tags with your spearing liscense - and the DNR would implement a protected slot. 26-40" is what we have talked about here, but it could be whatever the DNR proposes.

Then we would do our best to judge the size of fish - and avoid fish within the slot. In the event that a fish was accidentally misjudged and havested within the slot. That fish would need to be tagged and reported.

That way we spears would be encouraged to become better judges of size and do what we can to avoid the slot because it would preserve our tags for when we needed them.

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Quote:

Also, I'm glad to see the folks who are critcal of the spear guys point out that they don't really have a problem with spearing itself - just the harvest of fish that have turned the corner from being snakes, and are on thier way to being 40 inchers (regardless of how they are taken).


Perfectly said

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