Small Pike vs. Big Pike Debate

[AWH]

There has been a lot of discussion on the site in recent months about the pike fishery in the state and the effects that certain practices have on our lakes and rivers. Clearly, the state is loaded full of lakes with great numers of northern pike. Many of these lakes are loaded with hammer handle populations. The number of waters that would be considered trophy waters are much less common.

Are trophy potential waters what we want? Personally, I hope so. What can we do to help sustain current trophy waters and establish other trophy waters? I believe that a lot of the special regulations that have taken place in recent years will definitely help. But I believe that we as anglers have to all be held accountable for the good of our fisheries as well.

In my mind, there's no fish that tastes any better than a northern pike, not even many people's favorite, the walleye. Fillet them boneless and they make a great meal. However, I have always had the personal rule in my boat that if it's greater than 24", it's too big to keep. I know others that think that those 25" to 35" are great eaters too. But personally, I think keeping fish in this size range (and bigger) is what's hurting our pike fisheries. I would love to see more pike regulations established in the state. Currently, we have approximately 4,400 lakes with northern pike populations. Only 103 of these have experimental or special regulations on pike. This means on the remaining 4,300 lakes that we as anglers have to regulate ourselves and be smart anglers for the better good of the fisheries.

The following is taken directly from the MN DNR HSOforum.

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Growing Big Northern Pike

Everyone likes to catch big northern pike. But why do most lakes carry an abundance of small fish and only the rare body of water hold fair numbers of truly large northern pike? What is needed to grow big northern pike? A lake must have adequate spawning areas to produce a self-sustaining northern pike population. There is little evidence, however, that a superabundance of northern pike fry has any effect on the size to which northern pike ultimately grow. Northern pike must have adequate forage - primarily minnows, perch, suckers, tullibee and other fish of appropriate size. They also must have cool, well-oxygenated water to grow well.

Northern pike are a "cool-water" species, and research indicates that they stop feeding and may even lose weight in the warm water and occasional low-oxygen conditions prevalent in midsummer. So, if a lake is to grow big northern pike, it must have a cool-water refuge, such as deep, well-oxygenated water, with a suitable cool-water forage fish, such as tullibee.

Finally, big northern pike must have protection from anglers. No northern pike ever grew large in a Pyrex baking dish. Large northern pike simply are too few to endure heavy fishing pressure. Big fish must be protected by remoteness, as they are in the Canadian wilds and the remoter waters of northern Minnesota, or by some form of catch-and-release regulations so that most big fish are returned to the water to grow even larger. Restricted harvest is the management approach we must take if we want to grow really large northern pike in the presence of heavy angling pressure.

Recently, anglers and fish managers have begun discussing the use of special regulations to create good fishing for large northern pike. These regulations may take several forms.

A pure no-kill restriction would most closely replicate the conditions that exist on remote lakes that are fabled for their large northern pike.

In some lakes, the DNR has increased the possession limit and imposed size restrictions to encourage anglers to take more small fish. The hope is that through decreased competition, the remaining fish will grow larger. In other lakes, the DNR has banned spearing to protect the large northern pike that otherwise might fall prey to that method of fishing.

Some biologists believe a slot of length limit or maximum-size limit will protect large fish and create a trophy fishery. Meanwhile, anglers could keep some small fish, which are common in most lakes anyway.

What is necessary for Minnesota to steer toward a "big-northern-pike" policy on select waters where northern pike can grow large? Anglers will have to stand up for such a policy. They will have to convince other anglers that catching and recatching big northern pike is worth more than killing and eating big northern pike.

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There's some good information here. But I believe that the last paragraph says a lot. What is necessary for Minnesota to steer toward a "big-northern-pike" policy on select waters where northern pike can grow large? Anglers will have to stand up for such a policy. They will have to convince other anglers that catching and recatching big northern pike is worth more than killing and eating big northern pike.

Aaron

[Sonicrunch]

All you have to do is check out lake Sallie by Detroit lakes. All pike above 24" must be released. and it was the best pike fishing I have ever had.

I agree. The pike regs need to be more restrictive.

[Fish&Fowl]

I wouldn't disagree on a proposal to make "a pike slot" and too don't believe that any pike over 25-30" is a great eater. I love to eat pike and when they come out of cold water, taste identical to walleye in my mind. Walleyes up to the 22" mark are also good eating, but on Rainy we must throw these prime spawning fish back if they are between 17-28". This made a lot of people upset, but has proven a great idea in making a spectacular walleye fishery out of one that had pretty much died off.

More importantly I think, at least for now, is to get anglers to start respecting pike. Everyone knows someone who hates catching those "slimy snakes" and will grab them by the eye sockets or hit them over the side of the boat. I realize this is not as much the case as it has been in years past, but when children see their fathers or grandpas doing this sort of thing, it is passed on. Getting more people to first start respecting pike will be crucial in getting more strict regs to stick.

[RK]

Hiya -

Thanks Aaron...some good info.

Pike management really is a tough subject. I've been participating in a series of discussions with the DNR on pike and muskie management leading up to the annual Fisheries Roundtable this weekend, and at the Roundtable I get to present the case for continuing the DNR's current pike management program of special regulations.

Special regs on pike aren't terribly popular with the spearing folks. It's seen by many of them as a defacto spearing ban. I've written columns in favor of special pike regs a few times, and it's really earned the ire of some in the Dark House Assoc. I have the "fan mail" to show for it.

But, applied in the right situation, the regs DO serve the purpose of protecting pike as they make the developmental jump from mid-size to quality fish in the 30" range. For many anglers, the mid-20" fish are the size they want to keep. Few anglers will keep sub-20" pike. In the early stages of the DNR's pike management program, liberal limits on pike in lakes that had high pike populations was tried. Sallie, mentioned in this thread already, was one of them. It just plain didn't work. Anglers wouldn't keep small pike no matter how many they were allowed. The idea was good in theory, but pointless in practice, because angler behavior didn't live up.

On lakes where special regs have been in place for a significant time, results have been very promising. Sallie, which is near where I grew up and where my cabin is, is a good example. Big Birch and West Battle are a couple more examples, and there are others as well.

Someone pointed out that anglers don't appreciate pike, and I couldn't agree more. MN anglers have really forgotten what quality pike are, and what many MN lakes are capable of in terms of pike production. 5 pound pike are seen as 'big' in lakes that, given protection, are capable of producing 30 to 40" fish. On some of the lakes with special regs, pike populations are showing numbers that haven't been seen since the 1950s. What it takes though is angler support. I think we're seeing more support as lakes that have had the regs in place for a while start to be recognized as places where you can go catch a 10-15 pound pike.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[bigfish21]

I know of a lake where the average pike size is literally 7-8lbs (I used a scale..no exaggeration) and have seen a fair share of 20lbers w/ one over 30. there are also musky in the lake that average roughly 13lbs and have seen some come to the boat that would easily push the 50+lb mark. The point is, lots of sizeable fish are possible even in smaller lakes if the conditions are right. I believe the biggest factor for the lake I speak of is the fishing pressure...There is virtually no pressure for these beasts!! If we want to catch big fish (any species) we need to release mid-sized fish. I agree with slot limits because those fish that are critical to a BIG fish population are also the ones most desirable in peoples fry pan

[traveler]

Hey bigfish, whats the name of that lake, and how exactly do you get there??? kidding...KIDDING! of course. I once had a trout lake off the gunflint that I could reliably catch (and release) rainbows in the 3-5 lb range... for about 3 years, till I found a large party camped out one opener, and again on memorial day weekend. I talked to them...they were frying up 4 lb bows:( and that was the end of that little honey hole. Different situation with a put and take trout lake, sure, but big fish need to be either released or not caught in the first place before they can become trophies, thats for sure.

[Dan L]

I'm all for more trophy pike lakes. I fished a lake that has special regs for pike for the past 10 years and it was incredible fishing for pike. The DNR came up with a statewide 24" - 40" slot for pike a few years back when the DNR was reviewing regulations. There was not enough support for it though. It seems like anytime you read about an article about a lake you hear about how the there are too many pike in the lake and it could be harming the overall fishery. I would like to see the DNR take another attemt sometime at a new statewide regulation for pike. The cuurent 3 pike limit with one over 30 inches a day is a joke in my opinion. It does not do enough to protect big pike. It is also frustrating to continually see the Darkhouse Assiation fight any attempt to protect mid to big size pike.

[Sonicrunch]

Quote:

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Hiya -

Sallie, mentioned in this thread already, was one of them. It just plain didn't work. Anglers wouldn't keep small pike no matter how many they were allowed. The idea was good in theory, but pointless in practice, because angler behavior didn't live up.

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I really have to disagree with this statement. We caught nothing but 28" - 38" pike for 4 days this summer. If you're concerned about to many hammerhandles, I would argue that the big pike and big walleye in this lake have them for lunch quite often.

[RK]

Sonicrunch -

After they tried the 6 fish limit, they put on the 24" maximum size limit that's in place now. THAT is why the pike in there are what they are...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[B420]

I think a slot on pike from 26-40" would be an excellent idea for lakes that are capable of producing trophy pike. I fish on lake with high minumum size for pike and the size structure is amazing. Multiple fish days with many in the 30-38" are common. I am also an avid spearer but I am very choosy in what I harpoon. I will spear snakes till the cows come home, but anything in the 26-40" gets a pass. If I do choose throw at a big one, it's going to end up on the wall. In the last 10 years I have had numerous fish that were close, but not quite to the magic 40" mark, and they all got the pass. Even as a spearer, I feel the dark house assocaition is really not doing us any favors in helping the pike size structure in MN.

[BigWadeS]

Sonicrunch---

I have to agree, my best friend has a cabin on Sallie and it was a great year especially since that was put in place. Years before the slot was in place it was many, many, many hammerhandles and snakes, now it is a prime lake for some quality fish.

[tipupguy]

i,ll chime in on this slot limits do work waconia has had a slot 16 inch min. on walleyes for years and there are nice walleyes taken out of there every year now this is just my opinion i believe those walleyes take a longer time to get to 16 inches than from that point getting to 3 plus pounds cause they start eating like we eat at thanks giving bigger potions i let all my 16 &17 inch waleyes go i believe those fish will reach 3lbs.in a shorter time i know the subject is n. pike and that fact with n. pike is the lake needs a certain make up to produce trophy northerns a state wide slot i dont think is a good idea some lakes can be over run by small northerns it is also a genetic thing i think each lake needs to be evaluated a lake like waconia has the make up for trophy northerns oxygen forage base cool water in the summer people dont catch big northerns in the middle of summer cause they spend %85 of there time in deep cool water or springs they come in to feed and slide back out but a lake like waconia would greatly benefit for a slot on northerns and my son first couldn,t believe it when he seen me release larger northerns and now he,s seen more than a few i,ve released and he,s starting to understand and we need to educate our son,s how important it is for the future big pike in minnesota are old fish and major egg layers and with that comes genetics

[Sonicrunch]

Quote:

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Sonicrunch -

After they tried the 6 fish limit, they put on the 24" maximum size limit that's in place now. THAT is why the pike in there are what they are...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

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Ah Ha!

Now I understand.

[bassNspear]

so what your saying is you think that there should be a slot like 26-40 where we cant keep them fish, or can only take fish in that slot?

[mskyfshntchr]

Those bigger fish would be protected, so the 26-40" fish would be let go.

[bassNspear]

Ok, thats what i was thinking. I agree with that for this to a point. And the reason i say that is becuase of this. It would be great for them fish to be keep in that slot where we would be putting them back. But the feeling that i get with this is that once a guy goes out and catches a monster over 40, there really is only one thing that they can do with it, and thats put it up on the wall. Reason i say that is becuase im pretty sure no one is going to want to eat that, maybe im wrong, but thats just my feelings on this subject. It sure would be great to have this, so we know for sure that within a few years, people will be out there hooken up with some monsters...........or spearing them

[AWH]

Bass N Spear,

Nothing eats better than a 3 or 4 pound pike, which are plentiful in most of our waters. Pike bigger than that just aren't nearly as good on the table. So I'm always puzzled by those that look for bigger fish to eat. It's those bigger, 5 pound+ pike that are so important when it comes to creating better quality pike fisheries. When we start keeping them with regularity, that's when things suffer. That's why those protected slots in the 24" to 36" or 24" to 40" range are so effective. A 40" fish should definitely be one for the wall and not for the table, if one chooses to keep one that big.

I fish a lake where a person can catch 30" to 36" pike with regularity. But I know that if I were to start keeping those fish instead of the smaller (20" to 24") fish, I could do a lot of damage to the fishery without much effort.

Aaron

[bassNspear]

I understand what your saying, but i just wanted to place my point.