Toyota Camry + NASCAR

[Corey Bechtold]

Looks like the Toyota Camry is going to compete in NASCAR's 2007 Seasons.

This could ruffle some fenders.

What does everyone think?

Corey Bechtold

[eyepatrol]

Uh-oh...here we go again!

I've expressed my views on this once before, but I'll just say again that I'm not in favor of it. No longer with the Daytona 500 be the "Great American Race". It will have to be named the "Great International Race".

JMO

[PikeBayCommanche]

Toyotas are made in the US and do employ a lot of Americans. I don't have a problem with it. Toyota is a great company that makes great cars that are dependable and hold there value very well which is very important.

I got a buddy who bought a new Chevy Z71 and as soon as you take it off the lot the value drops $7,000. Not good

[Sifty]

Corey there is a post from Feb. that got alot of replies I think the title of it was Toyota. It's back a few pages.

Sifty

[JohnMickish]

Toyota does have a habit of coming into a new series, outspending the competition, dominating to the point that the competition leaves then Toyota goes to another venue leaving a big empty hole. Ask the IRL and Cart.

Did anybody catch that episode of "Wind Tunnel" where Dave had the North American director of Toyota motorsports on? Dave asked him flat out what the budget was and he said "No more than any other manufacturer." Toyota will have 6 cars and Chevy has about 20. Dave Dispain asked him again what is was, said he heard there "was no budget, spend what it takes to win". The guy didn't look very comfortable.

[eyepatrol]

I think I recall watching something like that.

[Corey Bechtold]

Other than being a chest beating match. What do the other manufacturers have to worry about? The cars they have in NASCAR (Ford Taurus, Chevrolet Monte Carlo's, Dodge Chargers) are nothing like the "sales lot" cars. If they wanted rear wheel drive cars to race than it should be Mustangs, Camaro's, Vipers, Corvette's, or other rear wheel drive cars. I don't think Toyota car sales will jump just because there is a Camry shell on top of a high performance race car. I am not a motor-head or anything but I do like watching the races. Until I see a Challenger body style on a NASCAR car than I will get excited. Heck, I'd like to see the boys of NASCAR jump into a stock, off the showroom floor, car and see what they could do on a mile track!

It'd be pretty funny, don't you think?

Corey Bechtold

[JohnMickish]

I think alot of the problem is tradition and the proverbial bandwagon. Why didn't Toyota petition to enter 10 years ago?30 years ago? It's a "sport" with lots of history, and many feel (I think I'm in this catagory too) that Toyota will be given "favors" in the start. Ford and Chevy have been using the same engine design in NASCAR since the small block rule of 1974 or 1975. Why should a new player (be it Dodge or Toyota or whoever) be "given" 30 years of engineering? Toyota Does not make a pushrod cast iron block V8 for passenger use. Ford, Dodge and Chevy do, and the engine in their respective pickups are very similar in design to their race motors. Nobody is dismissing that Toyota builds many of it's cars and trucks here in the USA, and they even have some plants that belong to the UAW union.

IMO, thats what the problem is, they haven't "earned" the right to play there yet, and when they do they will ruin the traditon of it.

It will be interesting to see how they run with their list of drivers. You know if they run real well something is up.

[PikeBayCommanche]

Being new to watching Nascar over the last year I guess I don't understand how the whole engine thing works. Do they all use the same blocks or they all make their own but to certain specs set by nascar? What is the V8 that Toyota uses in thier trucks like I have? Is it something different? Even if they don't I am sure that they could make one right? I guess I don't get the whole "earned" thing do they have to share some vital secret.

[JohnMickish]

The engine rule reads, "stock production, cast iron V8 pushrod" engine. You can go to your local Chevy dealer and order the same bowtie block or go to Ford and order the same SVO block that they use. Sure, it come unmachined but you can get the same block that comes down an assembly line, made in a regular production run. Dodge was given some leniency in it's engine when they re-entered due to unfavorable pushrod to lifter angles. Each manufacturer uses that brands block and heads but each team or engine builder is allowed (within certain rules) to do what they want. Ford and Chevy (and Dodge to an extent) have evolved their respective engines over the past few decades and with lobbying and rules changes have things where they are today. Any new manufacterer will get to start at the current starting point. If NASCAR gave the new company the blueprints for 30 years ago they would have uncompetitive and un reliable engines. They are just getting a head start.

As far as tradition goes, the sport was started 50 some years ago and has been wittled down to just the big three, everyone else has stopped running NASCAR. IE, Hudson, Oldsmobile, Mercury and so on.

[lawdog]

That's a good question, what does Toyota sell for a V-8 motor? I know nothing about Toyota's products...

[JohnMickish]

Ask no more, it's a

4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI

V8 with VVT-i

271 hp @ 5400 rpm;

313 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm

Now imagine what Robert Yates or Hendrick could do with a DOHC motor!

[rundrave]

Word is that Toyota will not begin cup racing until 2007, which just happens to be the same year NASCAR is projecting putting its COT (Cart of tommorrow) on-track full-time

So, while Chevy, Dodge, and Ford team owners will have to scrap their old cars in order to build the new ones, Toyota can simply start with the new design, and avoid wasting all of that money on the old one.

As far as the v8 engine. What toyota had to do was reverse engineer the Chevy, Ford and Dodge engines. The TRD team incorporated the best features of each engine, while hunting for Nascar-legal design tweaks.

After frustrating negotiations with Nascar and million of $$$ in development costs, TRD has produced the requisite engine, but one with enough subtle innovations to boost performance on the track.

So if they make a engine and car that NASCAR says is legal and with'in all guidelines, what are you so worried for. They will not have any advantages over anyone else.

I don't see an advantage for anyone. They will all have to struggle with the new body etc. And the big guys will still have track knowledge as well as way more experience. The more the merrier, anything that brings more fans and knowledge about NASCAR can't be all bad. Plus it could inspire the big 3 to make better motors etc. Maybe even make the races more intense, racing is racing isnt it?

As for tradtion, if you want tradtion then nascar should go back to true stock bodywork with limited spoilers and production based engines, bring back the race what you built days!

[PERCHJR]

KEEP IT AMERICAN!!!

GOOD LUCK AND GOOD FISHING!!!

[marine_man]

Quote:

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Word is that Toyota will not begin cup racing in 2007

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Is this fairly recent news? The last thing I heard on this was a month or two ago that they were going to begin racing in 2007...

marine_man

[rundrave]

sorry....should have read until 2007

[Uncle Bill]

Boo to Toyota.

Boo to lettin em in.

Boo to taking NASCAR international.

Three cheers to #17 !!

[PikeBayCommanche]

Toyota's gonna win it all next year!

[rundrave]

I'll bet it takes Toyota at least three years to make any significant impact.

What do you guys think nascars reasoning is for letting toyota in? Did they do it for the money? Did they do it for the extra people/fans it will bring to the sport?

I completely understand when you guys talk about the "great american race", do you think nascar is in a way being a sellout?

[JohnMickish]

"So if they make a engine and car that NASCAR says is legal and with'in all guidelines, what are you so worried for. They will not have any advantages over anyone else."

The advantage is they changed the rules to let them do that since they don't have a regular production engine that fits the rules. Shouldn't they let Ford and Chevy engineer a new engine too?