Mountain lion sightings

[buzzsaw]

Catfish, I believe you should be a forum moderator! You take the time to put into words what needs to be said and offer alot of good insight to alot of different subjects. I always take the time to read your posts as well as Crappie Tom's.

[Steve Foss]

Buzz, thanks for the kudos. I used to moderate the Wisconsin and the BWCAW-Duluth-Range boards. Plus, being in newspapers all these years makes me think I know everything.

But then my time all ran away and I couldn't be sure I'd have enough time to spend every day, day in and day out. Takes a lot to be a good mod, and includes reading every post on the boards you moderate every day, or nearly every day — not just the ones I'm interested in — and doing a fair number of things that aren't seen by non-mods. Just got too busy.

Now I've got more time again, since the photography business is getting established and the Web site is up and running, so I'm here chiming in more often whenever I feel like it.

And so here's a hats-off to the mods, who give their time so generously.

[FOOT]

Guess what folks, Mountain Lions are moving into populated areas. My wife lived in California not 3 miles from two mountain lion attacks on humans. Different lions and yes they were older and probably saw easier prey in humans. Also do you think it was in the mountains, nope it was real close to downtown Riverside Calif. Riverside is a short 70 miles from LA. There are several draws and gulleys that provide good cover for deer and other prey which I'm sure added to the influx of lions.

Would I be afraid to travel in these areas. NO I wouldn't but knowing they exist in an area I am in would make me mindfull of the situation.

They are a beautiful animal and shouldn't be feared but respected for what they are and what they can do.

[almostthere!]

Men and beasts that eat men can not live peacefully together no matter how beautiful the beasts are.

[YukonDew]

Excellent points guys, and I agree with your comments on the comparison completely. But that's exactly why I doubt I need to worry about it. My odds are low I will run into a cougar, even lower that it will be interested in me, and next to nil that I will become diner. They are definitely quite the predator and having very few of them around is fine with me!

It seems like wildlife dangers get so much press - shark attacks, cougar attacks, bear attacks, dangers from deer, etc...... For example; I spent a few years living near Red Lodge Montana and covered hundreds of miles hiking in the mountains south of Columbus. I know many people who still live there and hike 3-4 weeks a year. No one I have met personally has ever been in any real danger form bears during hiking - harassed maybe - but never really threatened. But when one bear attack happens anywhere in Montana, one would think from reading the papers that your average hiker is lucky to escape with their life anytime they step out of their car and hit a trail. I just wanted to make the point that it's not necessary to get too excited about cougars here in Minnesota - very few of us will ever see one - fewer yet will be in a position to be concerned for their safety.

[YukonDew]

Hey Buzzsaw - that is a great Avitar!

[Steve Foss]

FOOT:

You've got it exactly backwards, though the impact is still the same.

WE'VE moved into areas with mountain lion populations, not the other way around. That's especially true out west around medium to large cities with urban sprawl. Every housing development eats into catland. New development will push the cats out a bit until things settle down, and then they'll be back.

Not that it matters one way or the other about who has moved in on whom. We're there, they're there, and it isn't likely to get any easier.

[lawdog]

stf that's true of the places with the deer "overpopulation" in the metro areas too!

[Steve Foss]

lawdog, I might debate you a bit on that one.

While there were deer in central minnesota when Europeans moved in, I believe the population truly exploded only after the Twin Cities grew up and offered all that better habitat (more habitat "edges," and a metropolitan area increases average winter temps) and offered protection from predators (few to none in the city) and abundant food (flowers, vegetable gardens, sunflower seeds for bird feeders in winter, ornamental shrubs.)

I don't think human development has helped mountain lions increase their population. Unless there are a lot more people being eaten than we know about! Just kidding. Come to think of it, if urban sprawl in cities out west increases deer populations like it did in the Cities, maybe the cats, which prey mostly on deer, don't mind being close to man because that's where the deer are.

That's my late afternoon ramblings and .02, anyway.

[lawdog]

I'd probably concur of earlier urban deer issues in the core areas, but not now as we keep expanding new subdivisions into each valley and field and then the suburbanites' hastas are eaten up and its a catastrophe...

Have a good Thanksgiving! I'm outta here.

[Steve Foss]

Hmmm, do you suppose that if I bowhunted in one of the 'burbs that allowed a season down there and set up my stand over a garden full of hostas (deer LOVE them), I'd get busted for baiting?

[buzzsaw]

Thanks YukonDew! It's supposed to be the Ying and the yang.

[Steve Foss]

Ying and yang. Cool, just like when we get into a spirited little debate on this site. It's all good.

[FOOT]

Catfish, of course you are absolutely correct. We have incrouched on their historic territory range but now they are turning the tables on us. As we protect them and have more respect for them, not shoot them on sight, they are bound to get use to us and some will view us a food. This same thing has happened in some areas with the black bear.

[Longline]

I was pheasant hunting last fall south of Sherburn and we pushed a cougar/Mountain Lion out of the grass in front of us. I wasn't quite sure what it was but I happened to go to Cabelas the next and I looked and the mount they had and then I knew it was a cougar. Definately didn't look mean. It took off running across a field and away from us as fast as it could.

[Crickschop04]

I know a guy who hunts near Pine Island MN who caught one with his trail cam.

[YukonDew]

Crickschop04 -

That would be something to see! If there is a way you could post that photo, I imagine we would all would love to check out that photo.

[buzzsaw]

Heres a copy of a newspaper article from the metro area from a few years ago.

Cougar captured — on film

BY JOHN WELBES

Pioneer Press

04/27/2002

St. Paul Pioneer Press (MN)

© Copyright 2002, St Paul Pioneer Press. All Rights Reserved.

The urban legend of mountain lions lurking near populated areas is shedding its mythology and becoming verified fact. Images of a cougar captured on film earlier this month show at least one wandering the Minnesota River Valley in Savage.

Kerry Kammann, an employee at Cargill's grain elevator in Savage, heard rumors of a mountain lion sighting earlier this month. The rumor received more fuel the morning of April 9, when Kammann and another employee found cougar tracks and a deer's carcass in freshly fallen snow near the elevator.

The deer "was roughed up pretty good," Kammann said. "There were puncture marks and clamping on the throat. It looked like they had a pretty good tussle."

He and his co-workers talked about it for the rest of the day. "The cougar hadn't feasted on (the deer) yet," he said. It seemed he had killed it early in the morning and hadn't had the opportunity to feed on it."

Kammann, an amateur photographer, impulsively decided that same day to buy a camera with an infrared motion detector. The purchase would prove his theory about the cat's unfinished business. The 51-year-old utility man for Cargill is still excited he was able to get the shots.

"We've heard about one lion over here, and one over in the western suburbs," he said Friday. "But you know, nobody's ever got pictures."

Kammann put the camera, which takes flash photos when its motion detector is tripped, in a tree about 10 feet from the deer. The next morning he returned to find that the camera had snapped a few shots. He recorded shots of the cougar that night and the next two nights. The camera's clock mechanism indicated the shots were taken between 8 and 10 p.m., usually at about 10- to 20-minute intervals. He thinks that may indicate that the flash momentarily frightened the cat.

The cougar photos have been the talk of Cargill's Savage facilities this month, Kammann said, and the state's Department of Natural Resources was notified. Con Christianson, a specialist on fur-bearing animals for the DNR, said there aren't easy answers about what to do with a verified cougar sighting.

"I wouldn't say it's dangerous. I wouldn't say it isn't," he said. There's no definitive way to tell if the animal is wild or an escaped pet, he added, which would change the way it relates to humans.

Two incidents in the same week Kammann took his photos indicate how the cat responds to people. Early one morning, Dan Marquardt, who works at the nearby Cargill fertilizer plant, was driving a truck on a dike behind the plant and spotted the cougar lying in the snow. "It stared at us for three or four minutes and then it got up" and ran away, he said. Another worker spotted the cougar the next morning when it also ran away.

Christianson said a range of opinions will likely surface on what to do about the cat. "Some people would like to have it removed. Some would say leave it alone completely," and there will probably be variations in between, he added. But even trapping the cat alive brings complications. "If you live trap it where do you take it?" he said. "No one's asking for it to be brought to their area."

Christianson also cautioned any would-be hunters pondering a trip to the river valley: Cougars are protected animals in Minnesota and it's against the law to trap or hunt them.

He added that Kammann's photography is the "first well-substantiated sighting that we've seen." Over the years the DNR has received reports of cougars in the metro area, from Anoka to Washington County and the Minnesota River Valley, he said. But the DNR knows of no breeding population of mountain lions in the state.

Knowing where the Savage cougar came from or where it's going would be hard to determine, he added. The animals roam wide areas and "30 miles is nothing to a critter like this," he said.

Kelly Keeler of Bloomington, who frequently runs on the trails on the north side of the river valley, said she had heard rumors of mountain lions in the area before. She hadn't given it much thought, though.

On nice days runners and mountain bikers are on the trails, including routes on the river's south side. "But it's not heavily trafficked by any means," she said.

Word of the cougar sighting in Savage has Keeler's attention but it doesn't have her worried. "I'd be nervous to go in the dark by myself... Not because of wildlife but because of people," she said. As for the cougar, she added, "I think it would be kind of cool to see it, but I'll be a little more wary."

CAT ENCOUNTERS

Cougar attacks on humans are relatively rare. Government agencies reported 55 attacks throughout North America in the 1990s, seven of them fatal.

The most recent fatal attack occurred in Alberta, Canada, in January 2001, when a cougar stalked and killed a 30-year-old female cross-country skier in Banff National Park.

Some safety tips for avoiding trouble with cougars, from the National Park Service:

• Hike in small groups rather than alone. Runners are at higher risk.

• Make enough noise to keep from surprising a cougar.

• Keep children under close control, preferably in view just ahead of you.

• Stay away from dead animals.

[buzzsaw]

Heres an article from our friend Steve Foss (stfcatfish)

web page

[YukonDew]

Thanks Buzzsaw!

Great research! - The article on the Cougar in Savage is pretty amazing. Savage would not be my first guess if I were asked where a cougar would be attracted.

I find it interesting that although cougars are not considered endangered (Only the eastern cougar is protected) the state of Minnesota has laws prohibiting the killing of cougars. Like I've said before, I'm not worried about a cougar attack - but if I was part of the family of your second article, I would certainly want the opportunity to exercise a permanent solution without "breaking the law"

[Dave S]

A friend of mine saw a cougar in the median of HWY 169 yesterday at the HWY 93 intersection going to Henderson. There have been sigthings of the cat in or near the Le Sueur city limits but no photos to prove it. A resident of Le Sueur found some tracks after they put out a live trap that were very large and took a plaster cast of the tracks.

Now with the cat across the river from where it was first sighted, it will more than likely head towards the Rush River County Park.

As for the screams that people hear, I wonder whether or not there was another reason for the cat's to make this noise i.e. a pack of coyote's. Back in '88, I heard a noise in the river bottoms near Le Sueur that sounded like a large cat. Not really a scream, but more of a beller. Similar to a house cat in heat, but on a much larger scale.

Going to head out and travel the area where the cat was sighted yesterday to see if I could get lucky and get some photos.