MLB stinks

[juggs]

I've watched as much as I can take. Do any of these multi-millionaire ballplayers even know how to play the game anymore??? Dropping pop flies, getting caught between bases on routine grounders, only making it to second from first on a double, trying to score a late inning tying run from third with no one out and the ball hit right to the third baseman, "closers" who can't get anyone out. Do I need to go on?? Neither of these teams are Series-worthy. Throw in this unbelievably incompetent umpiring and I'm ready to hurl. What has happened to the game I love? Anybody with me?

[IFallsRon]

juggs, I vote for contraction to improve MLB.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

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I've watched as much as I can take. Do any of these multi-millionaire ballplayers even know how to play the game anymore??? Dropping pop flies, getting caught between bases on routine grounders, only making it to second from first on a double, trying to score a late inning tying run from third with no one out and the ball hit right to the third baseman, "closers" who can't get anyone out. Do I need to go on?? Neither of these teams are Series-worthy. Throw in this unbelievably incompetent umpiring and I'm ready to hurl. What has happened to the game I love? Anybody with me?

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Juggs,

I hate to take you to the wood shed on this, but how is is possible to only make it to second from first on a double? If you did that, wouldn't you have two runners on second?

If you are refering to the play with the fly ball by AJ with Rowand on first, he made the correct play in my book. With only one out, he watched a fly ball go to the wall and it looked like a very catchable ball. The left fielder butchered the play and the ball hit off the wall about 5 feet up, being at least 6 feet tall he should have made that catch without any problem. After the catch, Rowand was going to tag and try to get into second base so you would at least have a chance to score with a base hit even though there would be two outs. The fielder butchered the ball and Rowand was safe at second and AJ was safe at first and there was still one out. Where did Rowand mess up? Should he assume that the fielder is incompetent and was going to flub the play? Not in the World Series. Let me know if that is the play you are reffering to or did I miss something?

What I see is a team that lead the league from start to finish, has the most dominent pitching staff in baseball and is a league leader in homers and defense who is playing a wild card team that snuck in with a lot less wins during the regular season who is tired, undermanned and just happy to be in the Series rather than one that feels it is their destiny to win!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

IFalls,

Should we start in St.Paul and those guys who play in the baggie dome?

[friendlyfisher]

No we should start on the South side of a city south east of the twin cities.

Contraction would be hard due to the fact that the teams to contract have not been in the league long and stadium issues and many other things. I think baseball is more fun to watch every year. It seams like every postseason you see something that has not happened before. I can look back and think of many things. B. Y Kim for the Dbacks blowing back to back saves vs the yankees a few years ago. Boston finally winning after coming from 3 games down vs the might yankees. The braves winning 14 consecutive devision titles(and only one world series). The A.J. play this year. And there are many many more to list from just the past ten years.

Did I mention the Twins have won two world series in the past twenty years. I think only two other teams have done that.

baseball rocks.

[Commanche Jim]

Juggs,

Then find another sport to watch. Remember the Bill Buckner play? Leon Durham? Bjung-Yung Kim?

The defense the Sox are playing in the playoffs has been solid!!!!!!

The sport doesn't stink.....the attitudes of fans when they don't like the fact the Sox are playing in the World Series is what stinks!

If neither team is series worthy, please enlighten us and tell us who would have been worthy?

[CNY Tim]

Windy - "Quote"

Not in the World Series. Let me know if that is the play you are reffering to or did I miss something?

I will have to take issue with Guillen on this one.. Burke can be ran on, why??? he's converting from a 2nd base position (that he has known all his life)and has had a shaky go at out field since they moved him out there, he for the life of him can't go back on a ball kinda reminiscent of Reggie Sanders, no the correct play should have been Rowand going past 2nd in line with the flight of the ball and by MIRACLE i mean miracle if Burke caught it retrace and come back. Burke is in there for his bat and that's it... I don't blame Rowand, I blame Ozzie for not giving his guys the low down on Burke.. Burke is in there to hit predominantly but the way Biggio is butchering second maybe there better off with Burke....

The wood shed maybe a little harsh.

[juggs]

Windy--"Woodshed?" The ball rolled half way back to the infield after hitting the wall and Rowand only makes it to second?? I strongly disagree with you on this one. That play was never a sure out, whether the OFer misplayed it or not. Even at that, there have been so many other instances this year where players seem utterly clueless at the plate, in the field, or on the bases. My point was that players don't know some of the very basics of the game. Commanche Jim--I never said anything specifically about the Sox defense or being ahead in the Series. Maybe I should have labeled my post "MLB players stink" instead. The game is great. I love the game. Ernie Banks was right. It IS the greatest game invented by man. But today's players don't play it right and they make the game look bad. Yeah, there have been some very sweet plays on defense but the fundamentals are still woeful. Chicago and Houston both won their way to the Series and deserve to be there in that sense. But hey, somebody has to go, right? I actually like that there are a couple different teams in the Series this year. Variety is good. It sounds like you're taking my criticism of the players personally. Just look at all the bad decisions that are being made and tell me you can defend these guys.

[friendlyfisher]

Juggs, first off nice name.

I can see your argument, it can look bad at times and yes that runner should of been on 3rd at least. It was just a bad play that he will learn from. I just hope houston can make the series a memerable one. At least six game would be fun to watch. So far each postseason game has been beter and beter. Not counting games 3 through 5 in the chicago angels series. Tonight should be a blast.

[fishyguy]

juggs,

I am with you. I can remember many instances late this season where teams could not get bunts down. Including the Twinkies and the White Sox in their final games. On the play you were referring to in the WS/Houston game, the correct base running play would be to go half to 3/4 to 2nd base and then advance to 3rd or score if the play is not made. Tagging up should not be done unless it is a likely catch. It did not seem to me that the outfielder would catch it. I know my playing baseball through college would not impress Windy enough to change his mind but I am fairly confident in my baseball knowledge and thoughts on playing the game.

[genegodawa]

What I find hard to believe, and I've said this before, is the misplays that are made by the "pros" that only a LLeaguer should make. I don't know the union rules, and I don't know the impact of keeping the field game-ready, and I'm sure all the traveling puts a dent in this thought, but it seems to me that if the only thing they had to do was play ball, they would be practicing a heck of alot more. I think there have been 3 misplays by pitchers (Washburn, Escovar, and Marquis) recently that, although they are more physical than mental, are sickening to me to see.

I've made fun by calling them chUMPs, but the reality is they make mistakes on bang-bang plays or on situations where their positioning maybe could have been better. But rarely do they make a bad decision on something routine.

I probably wouldn't be so down on the player mistakes if they didn't get paid so much. And certainly the coaches are also partly to blame if they are not anticipating situations and reminding the runners.

PS Start to finish, Windy? Snuck in? You seem to forget the Sox had to defeat a hot Cleveland team at the wire to get in...but at least you're in.

Well, game is on, Biggio just lead off with a double, so off the soapbox again for awhile.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Geno,

Name me another team in the AL Central that was in first place for one day during this season...WELL...I'm Waiting!

Case Closed. As I said, START TO FINISH my friend. Back to the wood shed Geno, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD...YES!

[genegodawa]

Windy,

Of course no one else was there all year but the last day is all that matters and the Sox were there then. Its just that the tone of your post re: Houston "sneaking in" did not jive with how the Sox made it by having to beat up on Cleveland the last series of the year to also get in.

[Commanche Jim]

Sox won the division by 6 games.

That's not really close.

[genegodawa]

Jim,

I may be wrong, but if the Sox had been swept those last 3, wouldn't there have been a playoff game of some kind? Maybe not, but I am pretty sure there was still a chance they wouldn't have made it during the last week of the season. So, all that start to end stuff was meaningless going into the last week-and although Houston was only a WCard team, the Sox also "snuck in" in my opinion.

But they certainly finished the job in good style. A couple of games in both series where they got all their runs in one-inning, a couple of games where they scored as many as 2 runs and still won, a couple of games with help from the chUMPs, and a couple of games with the unlikeliest of power hitters-but none of that matters in the W-L column. It was their year, and as a team did the job to become World Champs and that is now part of HIS-TOE-REE.

[hooked2000]

99 wins is sneaking in? Since when is best record in the league sneaking in? How many wins did the cubs sneak in with in 2003? You are the kind of jealous Cubs fan that White Sox fans dispise. Typical Cubs fan that knows nothing about baseball.

And to answer your question...the Whie sox clinched in Detroit before the last series in CLV.

[PierBridge]

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99 wins is sneaking in?

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Yes when you are on the verge of the biggest callaspe in Major Sports history, also when your on pace to break the all time Wins record by a Major Leauge baseball team and you don't even win a 100 games.

Hope this clears things up for ya...

[genegodawa]

Hooked,

Very nice of you to join the party.....a little rambunctious, but at least you cared enough to write.

I only have 2 words in response to you.....

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and they're not "let's dance".

[fishyguy]

I got to go with the rest of the boys there Hooked....

When you are up by 15 at the break, on pace to break a record, making a mockery of the rest of your division and you need a last minute collapse by the team behind you in order to save your season, I think one could make a argument for sneaking in. It does not mean your squad had a poor season but it should have been a cakewalk. Join us for some Hot Stove action this winter or for some spring training conversation if you want to show your tremendous knowledge. If not, we can talk when your squad wins another title, they seem to be able to pull one out every century or so.

[genegodawa]

I see some real baseball fans understood my implication when writing of the WSox "sneak" in response to Windy's claim that the Astros snuck in.

Thank you for your understanding and support.

PS Is it close to "century-time" for the Cubbies? I think so.

[hooked2000]

Last minute collapse by clevland? Did they collapse?

The Sox had a bad strech no doubt about it...12-16 in august, not horrible. Clevland was 19-7 in Aug. Clevland was 20-8 in Sept. CLV played .720 ball in those 2 months, great baseball. Collapse? When they lose last there last 2 games to the best teamm in American league. So they came back to earth a little, as did the white sox in aug and sept. The sox got a lead and coasted in the dog days. Thats why you build a lead, to use it if needed. Remember The sox leadoff hitter and table setter was out for most of their slide on dl from 8-15 to 8-29. Joe Crede was also on the 15 day dl beginning of september. Injuries happen, and you must play through them, no doubt about it. They didnt do that part well.

The angels had 95 wins...did they sneak in? Did the Yankees sneek in with 95 wins and TIED with Boston for the east?

Atlanta (90 wins)snuck in 2 games up on phili. St. Loius (100 wins) didn't we all agree there, second place houston 11 games out.

San Diego you could make an arguement snuck in with 82 wins.

Your right you could make an arguement that they snuck in...But you would lose.

[rundrave]

Hook if you were a true fan, or if you root for the sox, you cannot come back with "We didnt sneak in? We didnt choke because we won the world series!

How can you go back and not say the white sox werent not chokers, because thats exactly what they were down the stretch.

Why dont you focus on the Sox won the close games when it mattered, the sox got the dominant pitching when it mattered, we had "Nick Nobody" get the clutch hit blah blah blah.

The sox were the best team when it mattered, but were a few hits away from becoming the biggest chokers in history PERIOD!

[Commanche Jim]

Why is it that you guys say the White Sox snuck into the playoffs? We won the division by 6 games.....That's right, 6 GAMES. The Sox played 162 games, just like every other team. Only 2 teams won their divisions by more!!!!

The lead was down to nothing, but we swept the hottest team in baseball, on their turf, when they were fighting for thier playoff lives..........

So to say we snuck in........no. We won by 6 games.

To say we collapsed.........no. We won by 6 games and won 99 games overall. What if the Sox went on that cold streak in June? Would you all still be arguing that we COLLAPSED in the middle of the year? No.

Jealously that the White Sox are the World Series Champions? Yes.

And Rundrave, did the Sox choke? No. Close? No. 6 games my friend, that's why they play a whole 162 game season.

They were close to being the biggest chokers in history? What if they had played Cleveland 2 weeks before and swept them? They would have led by 7 or so games with 2 weeks left to play. Would they have been called chokers then? No.

You want to talk about chokers, talk about the Yankees last year. Or Cleveland down the stretch this year.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. A few hits would not have cost them a 6 game lead, as you say.

[hooked2000]

Correct me if im wrong they did not choke...Almost choker does not equate with choker...does it?

By the way rundrave...I did not come back with "We didnt choke because we won the world series!" That was never said...please dont put words in my mouth. I posted facts to back my case. Quote the facts please or copy and paste previous communications.

I dont get your motivation.

You know what...why don't you put the White sox in your all time almost biggest chokers in history. I guess they come in first there too.

You almost make a good arguement.

[genegodawa]

Jim,

I dont' think any of us actually say the Sox are chokers or that the Sox actually collapsed, we just know they were close to doing so.

Here's a "what if" back at you: What if Cleveland had swept those last 3 games from the CSox instead? They would have ended up tied, not down by 6 games and THAT would have made the Sox chokers for having blown the 15 game lead. You are right that they did not collapse, but they were AWFULly close. They only gave back more than half their lead.

Hey, I'm glad they at least made it interesting for all of us.