Shotgun scopes why

[big drift]

I have never understood the need for a scope on a slug gun.

the standard range is 100 yds. max.

Now i have used em with just iron sights and it is great for drives and long range shots. I can only see the use of them for lowlight or if you have a vision problem. Other then that not really clear. Any opinions?

[Kodiak]

i use a 1x red/green dot on my slug gun, i like it for posting and for driving. It works real good for both, a shotgun scope is great for driving and posting because they have a good field of view @100 yards and they have markers to help judge drop and distance and you can get an accurate shot. I would rather hunt with one than without one.

[lawdog]

If you think you can shoot as accurately at 100 yards with open sights as you can with a scope, you are fooling yourself and doing a disservice to the deer that you are risking wounding, even at 75 and maybe even 50 you probably can't come close to the accuracy through a scope. Open sights are just not as accurate.

[Rost]

I think a scope on a slug gun is a luxury that some may not feel they need. And that is fine. However, I believe it does increase accuracy. For those that argue, I tell them to take a cantelope, set it on a fence post 100yds away and aim at it with open sights. Chances are the ball of your sight will cover the whole thing. Then take a scoped gun and aim, odds are you'll be able to pinpoint what part of the melon you're aiming at. People will argue, "it's a slug gun, they are not accurate". Well, with a fully rifled barrel and sabot slugs they really are.

Also, everyone keeps talking like you can't kill a deer past 100 yrds. Not true anymore. Here are the ballistics for a Federal Sabot (premium) zeroed at 100 yrds.

This is according to the Federal Interactive Ballistic Catolog.

25yrds- +1.4

50yrds- +2.2

75yrds- +1.8

100yrds- zero

[Rost]

Oops, before I get roasted, I better further explain my 100yd statement. It doesn't mean that I shoot at deer 150+ yrds, but I will easily kill a deer at 125.

[Mark Christianson]

I use a 1.5x to 4x vari-x Leupold scope.

I LOVE the 1.5x setting. Looking through crosshairs versus open sights is no comparison when shooting out to that 100 yd mark. My max is about 100 yds where I sit. Maybe a touch more.

Scopes for this guy. Hands down.

If they lift the ban on scopes for muzzleloaders, I will be putting one on my ML the day after that rule is lifted. My max comfort range on the ML is 100 yds too.

Yep another 1.5x to 4x sounds good to me for the ML.

[Dan Thiem]

BLB, please correct me if I'm wrong, but down here in the S.E. zone, I think a guy can use a muzzle loader with a scope during the shotgun slug season. But not during the muzzle loader season.

[FOOT]

I have no problem with someone using a scope on the slug gun for deer.

BUT, with practice a person can shoot open sights just as accurately as they can a scope. I know, I've done it.

BUT, as I get older and my eyesight wanes I would use a scope IF I hunted in an area that was slugs only. I hunt North and can use a rifle, which is what I choose to use, a Savage 270 w/ Burris scope.

[Mark Christianson]

Correct Dan.

Scoped ML's are legal during the shotgun/rifle season.

The ML season you must use open sights. I am talking about ML season where I would like to have a scope.

Just me, I have never been real comfortable with open sights, but I cant say I shoot thousands of rounds a year either.

[eyes']

I have a red dot Leupold scope and I would never go without it. On drives when you pull up you gun you can always see the dot. With iron sights you have to line everything up... Its just way more accurate and waty faster on those rushed shots.

[Guest]

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If you think you can shoot as accurately at 100 yards with open sights as you can with a scope, you are fooling yourself and doing a disservice to the deer that you are risking wounding, even at 75 and maybe even 50 you probably can't come close to the accuracy through a scope. Open sights are just not as accurate.

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This is just wrong. open sights are just as accurate, if not more accurate to a person accustomed to using them.

I shot competitively from the time I was 6 years old to 24 years old at distances from 50 ft - 600 yards... obviously this wasnt with a slug.. your range is limited.. But when you can keep 98% of your shots in a pie plate at 600 yards.. you cant quetion iron sights.

Telescopic sights also have their downfalls.. I cant shoot with them with any consistency.. sure, I can keep a 3" group at 100 yards.. but with iron sights I guarantee they will be within an inch.. or as well as the ammunition, and weather conditions will allow.

If your most comfortable with a scope.. use it. If you prefer iron sights.. nothing wrong with it and it is equally as deadly within a reasonable range that you can get proper focus on the animal your shooting at..

I'm not saying try shooting at a deer at 300 yards with iron sights.. DONT... the probability of a poor shot is likely and telescopic sights are the way to go... 100 yards? No problem at all... which eye do you want the shot placed in?

[Rost]

How can you even see a pie plate at 600 yds with open sights? Like I said before, the iron pin at the end of your barrel would cover a deer at that distance.

Back to the question at hand. Another reason I like a scope is that I can see where I am hitting when a deer is on the run and adjust accordingly.

[jlm]

Wow, 600 yards at a pie plate with open sights, I have got to see that! How about putting on a clinic for us? I will bring the plate! You name the time and place! I am sure many others would be interested in seeing that as well!

[big drift]

I am not sure about accuracy I place 3 shots in 2" at 100 yds. on a 8" paper plate. I am considering rigging one up for sitting in slug zones but won't use it all the time.

I have taken many deer w/ my open sights in the last 20 years farthest was 105 yds away. As far as shooting bulls at 600 yds. there are many national tourneys that do not allow scopes for competition.

thanks for your replies guys. May have to rig up one soon.

[CodyDawg]

Yep, count me as another that has to see that 600 yd shot with iron sights. At 600 yards your iron sight covers, what, a small garage? At 100 yards your iron sight covers a significant area. A great analogy with the cantaloupe. My scope is a 1.5X by 6X Burris and it works magic in low light picking out horns in the woods....or most of the time for me, in picking out absence of horns. At 1.5X, it is just as fast as iron sights, once you get used to it. If you read one of the other posts on this forum, you will see many guys who shoot 2" or less groups with scopes at 100 yds with shotguns. That does not happen with iron sights. Lawdog hit it on the head.

Having said that, many deer have and will die with iron sights. If YOU prefer iron sights and have practiced with them, then that is what you should use.

[art]

I'm not disputing that you can put 98% of your shots into a pie plate at 600 yds with iron sights but I'm trying to understand your logic in stating that iron sights are better than a scope at that range. Crosshairs with elevation, etc. They're both tools and the scope brings the target in closer so why wouldn't that be better........if you're accustomed to your scoped rifle? I use a scope on my shotgun and, granted, I'm confident I could do the same with iron sights (not the 600 yd thing) it's just nice to put the crosshairs where you want it and get the job done. Most of my shooting is heavily wooded and under 75yds from a stand. Good for low light as well.

[TUMBLEWEED]

I'm hearing a lot of talk about 100 yds etc. What I like

with my scoped, rifled barrel is the fact I can shoot thru

those little openings in the brush!! It is thick as heck

where I hunt, and a lot of deer just won't come out in the openings until dark. They survive by doing just that.

I place my stands right in the stuff and have had great

success in being able to snipe them, when they think they are safe.

[Rost]

And, if iron sights are so darn accurate...then why do our SWAT teams and Military snipers use scopes?

[big drift]

As far as distance shooting w/ open sights at 600 yds. can i say "Camp Perry" Springfield Illinois" "NRA Nationals" oh yeah and the Olympics. Not to mention umpteen thousands of Marine Corps qualifiers from at the earliest the Spanish American War.

As a former sniper you are shooting a totally seperate type of scenario, that is comparing apples to oranges. And before you ask me what i used it was a Remington model 700 bolt in .308 tipped with accelerators. And I attended the school in Fort Benning. But this thread is about slug gun scopes for deer not long range rifle shooting with iron/peep sights.

[TUMBLEWEED]

Drift, when you talk iron sights, most folks are thinking

v-notch and post set-ups,not peeps. I will side with you

on peeps being accurate out to 600 yds. My M1A1 has a

National Match barrel,peeps, and will do just fine without a scope. I am installing a Williams Peep system on my

50Cal Trade Rifle black powder rig to get ready for the

upcoming muzzleloader season. The v notch that was

factory installed, was junk.

The point I am making is that all iron sights and even scopes are not created equal. You bring up competition shooting. Not many competitive shooters use a v-notch system. Mainly nice peeps and hooded post set-ups. Same goes for the scope thing. Unless you are a varmiter or

benchrest guy, your average scope dude has no chance at

going out and shooting one hole on the target.

Getting back to the topic, with today's newer slug guns

and ammo, it is fairly easy (but not cheap) to have

a set-up that will do just fine at over a hundred yards.

Some slug guns are now styled like rifles and come

drilled and tapped for scopes. I think most people are

more comfortable using a scope too. With the better scopes

you have adjustments with eye relief and objective that

iron sights can't compete with.

LEts not forget the recoil factor thing here too!!

Anybody who has been to the range sighting in their

12 ga slugger can tell you these babies kick!! Most shotguns

are fashioned for bird hunting, and we merely swap the

barrel out and go after Bambi. (Some set-ups they just

change the choke and throw in a rifled slug.)

For those rigs with the beaded or v-notch systems, the shooters must get a good "cheek to stock" contact to

get a good sight picture. Even more-so if you take a "fine" bead. Ah yes, that nice feeling of one's teeth rattling

and the pounding of the stock off of the cheekbone,as

you touch off a round. Scopes can make it easier

for you to not lay your face accross the stock to

get the desired sight picture. I will add that if

somebody does switch from open sights to a scope.

The "stock to shoulder contact" needs to be there

or you will need stiches to patch up your eye-brow!!

[CrappieJohn]

The biggest part of this picture is that you are going to be shooting at a live animal, not a paper or metal target!

If you are going to go afield to shoot a living target, you should do so with your best capabilities. If that is with iron sites at 50 yards fine, but 100 is a real stretch in a fast moving hunting situation, scope or iron.

No hunter is any better than what his weapon can deliver and vice versa, so getting the two of you on the same page takes time and diligent practice. But if you think a scope does not make a huge difference at that 100 yards mark, you are fooling yourself.

The commentary about recoil is one that surely needs to be further addressed as well. I have a few scars from being guilty of trying to cut the cost corner and putting inexpensive scopes on the shotgun. Don't even bother with those. Go longer eye-relief, heavy crosshairs. I have the Trophy series 1.75+4 Bushnells on all of my shotguns and frontend loaders. Very clear, very solid equipment and at a price which is generally affordable.

I have hunted deer since 1966 and have seen some amazing attempts at deer that resulted in wounded and lost animals....many were true trophies too. The bulk of these tries were with open sights. Had a scope been on the gun on many of these sorry senarios, perhaps the shot would have actually gone where the shooter "thought" it was going to go.

Perhaps the state should change the way the laws are read and say that muzzloaders and shotguns with smooth bores and no scopes should be lumped together in the primitive weapons season and all other seasons where shotguns are required have a manditory scope use and no smooth bores.

This hunting field is not the target range. You are shooting live animals! Hunters have a moral obligation to kill cleanly and swiftly. Scoped guns shooting sabots deliver this need with far better consistancy than those weapons with smooth barrels or those without scopes.

[Kodiak]

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I shot competitively from the time I was 6 years old to 24 years old at distances from 50 ft - 600 yards... obviously this wasnt with a slug.. your range is limited.. But when you can keep 98% of your shots in a pie plate at 600 yards.. you cant quetion iron sights.

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and pigs fly....