My very large sunfish

[Slyster]

I asked in an earlier post how to ID sunfish.. and the replies were a bit vague.. so I did a bit of research.. and I thought I had figured it out... until today....

Either I caught a state record fish or I am mixed up on my panfish ID.

Today I caught a sunfish that weighed 1 pound 8 ounces.. it was huge! I caught it on a wacky rigged Senko.. (first panfish I've ever caught on a Senko)... I thought it was a small pike by the way it pulled deep and didn't surface like a bass getting ready to skip.

I assumed it was pumpkinseed.. nice fish but no big deal.. then when I got home.. I looked up the state records..

Either I caught a new state record fish.. OR.... (more likely) I am lacking in my sunfish ID skills.

Here are some pix from last week of the type I'm talking about.. (note: these are NOT of todays fish- but of the exact same species).. what are these? HELP! Are these pix below Pumpkinseeds or Bluegills- or even green? So many HSOforum pix seem to contradict each other.

[Slyster]

Is this webpage screenshot (below) correct? Is this the same species of fish in my previous 2 pictures in the above post? Are my pictures really Pumpkinseeds?

And... is the state record really 1 pound 5.6 ounces as I see it on the MN DNR page?

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[Slyster]

Now... here's yet another webpage screenshot.. This one suggests my sunfish pix in my first post are GREEN Sunfish. Sure looks like my pix...? So.. what actually ARE those fish in my first post?

[Mr Special]

My whole life I've known them as Pumpkinseed, but now your last post makes me think of them as Green Sunfish. I'm so confused now. I do know that the nice 8"-10" have really meaty shoulders and fry up nicely with butter and seasoning salt.

Good Post I would like to know also

[LEECH21]

That my friend is deffinately a......SUNFISH!

Really though, I would believe it to be a pumpkinseed because of the roundness of the body, overall. A green sunfish has a more elongated body and a larger mouth. Kinda like a rock bass. There are however many, many types of cross-breeds between the different sunfish species. These could be some of those. I think the most accurate way to i.d. a sunfish is to have a dnr specialist have a look at it.

I as well would like to know....really what it is. Anyhow, nice catch.

[juggs]

Originally I thought it was a pumpkinseed based on the body style and markings, especially the mouth size. The color resembles a green sunfish but they have the bigger mouth, which yours doesn't seem to have. If I were you, I would contact the DNR and arrange for them to ID it. Then if you have a state record you can take care of that at the same time. Another option is to go to a public library and check out a book on fish biology. They usually have more detailed info on how to identify a fish, like numbers of dorsal spines and the like. But if you have a potential state record, I would go straight to the DNR. It might be worth the effort.

[Pig_sticka]

That fish has a high percentage of a Green Sunfish. If it did have anything else it could be part Pumpkinseed.

If you caught a Pumpkinseed and put it next to the fish in the picture you would see alot of differences. Some lakes that I fish can grow some monster Green Sunfish. And they are able to eat alot of different things than normal sunfish.

[Slyster]

Hmm... seems with my pix.. someone here will know.. maybe some some CO's or DNR specialists browse the pages.

Green or Pumpkinseed... it was 1 lb 8 oz... and according my the DNR webpage.. that would have been a new state record!

If this would be considered "hybrid".. (would that a green/PS mix? Or does a hybrid involve bluegill?) then it was 3oz short of the state record.

Although.. of course.. I didn't know any of this.. so the fishy swims today. Like Moby Dick.

I know where he lives.

[The Grebe]

Corey, Tom, Matt, what do ya think? It certainly does'nt look to me like a green sunfish? Maybe a cross between a green sunfish and a pumpkinseed?

I always thought a green sunfish was just that, a green sunfish? I thought that those big mouthed sunnies had another name, but, it is posted right in the description as to what they are so I guess thats that!

Being that as it is, what kind of sunfish are the green sunfish? They are a pale green and rather plain and nondiscript looking...They always seem somewhat thinner then the like sized bluegills and I have never see a good sized one, say 9-10 inches?

[Pig_sticka]

Every green sunfish I have ever caught, which is alot, they are all very stocky fish. I have caught probably over a hundred over 9" and probably over 10". Green sunfish aren't just a solid green color in my knowledge. They do have the larger mouth characteristics, and if this fish hit a senko then it had to have had a bigger than normal mouth. In that picture it has the tail caracteristics of a green sunfish that is why I am guessing it is almost all greeny. Just saying almost because you never know what small percent could be hybrid.

Just because it had some blue striping doesn't make it a pumpkinseed. I believe Matt had a post on Pumpkinseeds, check that one out. It is nowhere close to this one.

If I am wrong I am wrong not putting a bet out, but just in my knowledge of fishing, and catching alot of big green and big pumpkinseeds, I am saying it is a Greeny.

[EatSleepFish]

that my friend, is a pumpkinseed, i have caughten alot of both, and i'm strongly leaning towards the pumpkin seed.

- Isn't the WORLD RECORD pumpkinseed 1lb. 8oz.?

-If people concentrated on the real important things in life, there would be a shortage of fishing poles

[CrappieJohn]

Personally I think that some waters have a degree of genetic blending that makes the id on some fish very tough. And some waters have mineral content that can influence color. Even within a pure strain you may find differences in build (go check out the beach for an example of this). And if you look closely at my avitar you will see two crappies, one being almost white and the other the normal early pre-spawn colored. Both are black crappies but the lighter one was mistaken for a white crappie since both are found in the lake where the pic was taken. (Remember this Rick? lol)It even had the elongated body that the white crappies possess, but it had definite black crappie markings. Hybred? Possibly. Now.... toss all of these variables into the mix along with time of year, available food, predation, etc.etc....identity can become muddled.

But back to my beginning statement, I think the biggest factor in what it looks like and the confusion here is due to the genetic mixing over years and years that is found in waters where more than one specie of the sunfih family exist together. The backwaters of the Mississippi River is a panfish bonanza, but I have taken some from that area that don't look anything like the pictures. What are they? Who knows....I call them sunfish. If I get one that is largely orange on the belly with the pretty blue webbing on the gills they are then called Pumkinseeds.

I don't worry about it much really.

[Corey Bechtold]

Do you have any pictures of the fish you caught on the Senco? That might help us identify what kind of fish you had.

If it is the exact same as the other fish you got photo's of that my guess is that it is a Pumpkinseed or a mix of a Green Sunfish/Pumpkinseed.

What did you do with the 1lb 8oz fish you caught?

Corey Bechtold

[Matt Johnson]

Where's Matt Breuer? He's studied these various sunfish species on numerous occasions. Maybe he'll pop in and give us some feedback...

Personally I think it's some sort of warmouth-hyrbid. It has similar characteristics of a warmouth but some things just don't match-up. It also has characteristics of several other sunfish sub-species as well. I donno...

Either way it's an awesome catch!

Good Fishin,

Matt Johnson

[Slyster]

The fish pix are the exact same kind.. from just last week. I didn't bring my camera yesterday so no pix of the big one... and therefore no proof but the images in my head.. I can still see the "1 -08" on the scale...

Didn't realize this was all so confusing. What if I let go a state record fish without even thinking about it... yikes. Or maybe if it's too confusing to ID they don't count these mutts?

[The Grebe]

Sticka...I've caught these things also and some other types that looked like they were related, had that orange rim around the tail. I got some real hogs, I just did'nt know they were called green sunfish?

Like Matt stated, I was leaning toward calling them warmouths, judging from their king sized gobs!

The green sunfish I thought were the true "green sunfish" are shaped more like a sunfish, instead of elongated like a bass, or rounded like a pumpkinseed and they are, well, green? Seems appropriate that a green sunfish would indeed be named a green sunfish?

Maybe we should start a new classification for these buggers that fall into the gray area..."Rainbow Sunfish" because of all the colors!

At any rate, all the fellas made some pretty good points here, maybe it is a combination of things/factors that made that fish what it really is....a Tullibee!

[Slyster]

So.. Now what is a "warmouth".. slang for a hybrid or yet another variety of sunfish?

[Pig_sticka]

My knowledge is probably way off

Slyster did you get the length?

Either way that is a very nice fish, I know of alot of people who let go sunfish because they dont go for them.

My one buddy caught a 13" sunfish up near duluth and just let it go to swim another day. And he forsure isn't lying on it, so that had to have been one big fish. That fish was a normal bluegill though.

[Slyster]

yes.. that's me.. I was going for bass (Senko)... but I do target these sunfish as well at times... using 1" tubes. I didn't measure it.. only weighed it.. but I would estimate 9 or 10 inches.. I have no idea really. Felt like a small pike to pull in though. They are fun to catch! I have a buddy at the DNR.. non-game wilfdlife dept.. and he will pass the link to this thread around.

In the near future (starting tomorrow) I will take good closeups of all the verious sunnies I get and start a new thread so we can compare and contrast and maybe more of us can learn to ID these critters.

[Mark Christianson]

Smallie_Hawgin

Where are for art thou??????????????????????????????

You want the answer, SH has got it. Well, he seems to think he does a lot.... J/K man!!!!

I say Green sunfish. But what do I know??

[Slyster]

Here's a couple more shots if it might help ID the fish.

[smallie_hawgin]

Slyster and others,

Hybrids occur with a high frequency in all of the sunfish species. We have four species of sunfish in MN Green, Pumpkinseed, Bluegill and Orange spotted. There are some Longear sunfish in the very southeast but 4 species in the rest of MN. What you show in the photos in definetely a hybrid. Centrarchids (sunfish family) are very closely related on the geneitic scale that hybrids occur very commonly. A typical hybrid usually includes Green and bluegill, or green and pumpkinseed. Without doing electrophoretic analysis (genetic test) the true identities of the fish will likely never be absolutely correct.

In general: Greens feel very smooth to the touch because their scales are somewhat smaller than the others, they have large mouths, rounded pectoral fins and a yellow margin on their anal fin.

Pumpkinseed will have a smaller blue tab with a red/orange spot behind it, smaller mouths, shorter snout, rounded pectoral fins and sometimes a whitish margin on their anal fins. They also have a tendency to have the irradescent blue stripes near the mouth.

Bluegill will have the definitive blue tab on the gill cover, pointed pectroal fins and no colored anal margin. They will vary in color but typically have vertical bands of blue/green on their bodies and small mouths.

Hybrids will have a more mushy feel (smaller scales) white margin on the anal fin (most times) and their mouths are almost always bigger. Hybrid sunfish can be seen as big as 13", bluegills rarely that big up here, Greens can get as big as 12" or so. Orange spots, well, they never get any bigger than about 3 inches, so it is not likely anyone will catch many of them. Hope all this helps..

[Mark Christianson]

SH has spoken.

Good stuff man.

[Corey Bechtold]

Good stuff smallie_hawgin... or can we now call you sunnie_hawgin?

Good Luck,

Corey Bechtold

[Slyster]

Tx SH.. so in otherwords.. If I went out and caught the same 1lb 8oz fish.. called it a pumpkinseed or Green and brought it in to a bait shop for a certified scale.. what would the DNR do? Is it not even a valid fish for a state record?